Class 48

[SGP]

I am a shelf queen collector that collects only prototypes and first of class in a glass case. I am looking for some roof detail photos or diagrams of D1702, the first Class 48. All of the Class 47 books that I have only briefly touch on the subject with no decent photos and I can find nothing on the net. 

I am only assuming that the roof detail on the five examples built was different to the rest of the 47's but maybe it was the same ... I don't know. I expect there was only a minor difference to the exhaust but a difference nonetheless. My next port of call is the GCR to look for scars on the roof of "Sparrowhawk". 

Any comments or pointers please?

[45125]

On the 47 website there is a very grainy photo of the roof of 1705, it would appear to have a slightly different exhaust port arrangement with the exhaust being at the opposite end to a 12LDA.

 

There is also a photo of the engine room with a 12LVA fitted and it shows the silencer that was fitted in above the vee that would suggest the exhaust is at the opposite end and may also be a twin ported exhaust.

 

Some of my ex Tinsley and Holbeck work colleagues seem to think they had twin ported exhausts.

 

 

Al Taylor

[russ p]

Sorry to hijack this thread is there any sound footage of them? A friend who secondmaned on them says that they sounded quite different and louder. Shame they had a silencer

[SGP]

On the 47 website there is a very grainy photo of the roof of 1705, it would appear to have a slightly different exhaust port arrangement with the exhaust being at the opposite end to a 12LDA.

 

There is also a photo of the engine room with 12LVA fitted and it shows the silencer that was fitted in above the vee that would suggest the exhaust is at the opposite end and may also be a twin ported exhaust.

 

Some of my ex Tinsley and Holbeck work colleagues seem to think they had twin ported exhausts.

 

 

Al Taylor

Thank you for your very quick reply. I have seen both those photos on the 47 site (sod's law that particular roof photo should be grainy). I never twigged about the exhaust being opposite end from the two interior shots. I'll compare those two photos again.

[Flood]

This photo shows that there was no engine exhaust in the position of the Class 47s: http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0829050002200

 

As 45125 has said this other photo appears to show twin exhausts at the radiator end: http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0802050006200

 

Also note that the Class 48s did not have Serck shutters until they were converted. I seem to recall that twenty years ago there was an etched brass roof conversion kit for a Class 48. A1 Models?

 

Edit: The side cantrail grills are also slightly different in position from a normal Class 47.

[SGP]

 

 

Sorry to hijack this thread is there any sound footage of them? A friend who secondmaned on them says that they sounded quite different and louder. Shame they had a silencer 

 

Hi Jack (lol). The engines were used in the French SNCF 68000 class locomotives.

There are quite a few youtube videos of them .... like this one of two running round their train, although they may be silenced differently. 

[russ p]

Just looking on Derby sulzers website, the turbos an the LVA ,two rather than one appear to be still over the generator . I silencer is in the V it must have been huge if the ports are over the free end

http://www.derbysulzers.com/sulzerlva24.jpg

[SGP]

 

This photo shows that there was no engine exhaust in the position of the Class 47s: http://www.class47.c...g=0829050002200

 

As 45125 has said this other photo appears to show twin exhausts at the radiator end: http://www.class47.c...g=0802050006200

 

Also note that the Class 48s did not have Serck shutters until they were converted. I seem to recall that twenty years ago there was an etched brass roof conversion kit for a Class 48. A1 Models?

 

Edit: The side cantrail grills are also slightly different in position from a normal Class 47.

 

All good info .... the cantrail grilles being another point of interest. Thank you. 

 

[EDIT] Damn, those cantrail grilles ... I can't unsee them now. They are going to be one major butchering exercise

[russ p]

Hi Jack (lol). The engines were used in the French SNCF 68000 class locomotives.

There are quite a few youtube videos of them .... like this one of two running round their train, although they may be silenced differently. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbSNF8iI-hk

Excellent,thanks for posting this. They sound excellent,better than a 47. Not sure I look of those tiny cabs! Are they still in service?

[BrushVeteran]

 

Also note that the Class 48s did not have Serck shutters until they were converted. I seem to recall that twenty years ago there was an etched brass roof conversion kit for a Class 48. A1 Models?

 

 

The A1 roof grilles were for the pre-Serck triple radiator panels that the first two hundred or so Class 47's were originally fitted with. These locomotives were fitted with a twin thermostatically operated Serck shutter system when they were converted to dual braking. 

 

The Class 48's had two exhaust ports corresponding with the V engine arrangement and in similar fashion to Kestrel. The cantrail grilles were also different with uneven spacing between the vertical slats dividing the sections. From recollection...............I only saw them a couple of times at Liverpool Street..........they were somewhat quieter than a normal Class 47. Unfortunately my roof photo's are not good enough to be able to produce an etch from.

[russ p]

Apparently one of the reasons for their removal from GE passenger work was when idling they had a tendency to rock from side to side and this also transferred to the first coach causing complaints from passengers

[MarkC]

Apparently one of the reasons for their removal from GE passenger work was when idling they had a tendency to rock from side to side and this also transferred to the first coach causing complaints from passengers

Interesting. You would expect a Vee engine to run smoother than an in line one.

[russ p]

Apparently on a ballast train they would either rock you to sleep or make you sick as you sat in a possession

[SGP]

Class 47's all had a slow rock which was like driving a boat. They would keel over so far then the bogie hawser would arrest the roll with a snatch and it would then roll the opposite way. This all seemed to be in slow motion as well. Great to drive though. Unfortunately the 48's were long gone before I started on the footplate.

I did manage to crawl all over 47901 though on its one visit to Toton back in 1986. The tale is that the Class 58's were starting to have major failures picking up cylinder liners and it was noticed that 47901 was not having the same problems or anywhere near the 58 failure rate. It was sent to Toton for an investigatory strip down and the problem was not evident. 47901 was then dispatched back to Westbury and it failed on the way back.

[russ p]

When built 47s had anti roll bar linkages on the bogies this reduced the body roll but I think most if not all have been removed from the ones that are still in service.

I think the one at Crewe heritage centre is still fitted with them

[br2975]

Class 47's all had a slow rock which was like driving a boat. ....................They would keel over so far then the bogie hawser would arrest the roll with a snatch and it would then roll the opposite way. This all seemed to be in slow motion as well. Great to drive though.

 

 

A bit like this ?

.

Even aqccounting for the alleged 'adverse camber' -  I never saw any other class of loco roll like this entering Platform 3 at Cardiff.

.

Brian R.

[russ p]

First time I rode on one it was quite scary but you soon got accustomed to it

[45125]

The roof doors are very different too, they only are above the cylinder heads and do not go the full width of the roof due to the silencer running up the centre of the roof.

 

Al Taylor

[John M Upton]

The old Hornby model used to do that thanks to that strange cone moulded to the underside of the chassis above the unpowered bogie!!

[SGP]

Just looking further into the Class 48 photos, it transpires that the ten Cuban examples also had the 12LVA24 engine and that the roof grilles (except for the radiator grilles) were identical. Looks like being more involved that I first thought. 

 

[kevinlms]

The old Hornby model used to do that thanks to that strange cone moulded to the underside of the chassis above the unpowered bogie!!

It was also on the Class 25 IIRC. Very strange that it was moulded off centre.

[SGP]

Just put a quick sketch together depicting basic roof differences of the 47 (top) and 48 (bottom). 

I expect that the roof access doors differed as well, hence the engine room grilles being changed at the same time as conversion of the 48's to 47 spec. 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi All

 

Using SGP's sketch I have added what I think the layout of the roof doors and panels over the engine and generator look like. I have worked from as many class 48 and the Cuban photos I could find that hinted on the roof make up. I did find what could have been an excellent photo by our Brush Veteran of D1706 had it not been for some blighter placing Pindar Street bridge above it. 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Been bashing an old Hornby Brush Type 4. I think I might have the exhaust ports too far apart, easily changed.

[The Johnster]

A bit like this ?

.

Even aqccounting for the alleged 'adverse camber' -  I never saw any other class of loco roll like this entering Platform 3 at Cardiff.

.

Brian R.

 

That's taken from my old favourite spotting position, and I think I'd have stepped back a bit if I'd seen that leaning towards me...

 

No experience of the 48s, but the 47s had the same bogie and gave a ride at any speed rather like a ship in a minor swell, not uncomfortable by any means but there was a lot of rolling, pitching, and swaying about that could be a little tiring on a long run when you'd been bracing yourself against it for a while.  You had the impression that there was a lot going on between the bodyshell and the bogies, but that it was well damped and controlled.  If you hit a bad spot (there were plenty of those between Cardiff and Newport where the track pumped ballast mud up, so you could see 'em coming), the bogie would drop in with a bang, but only the slightest shock wave was felt on the loco (a 25 would try to break your spine), which would then dip slowly nose first and recover after a second or so.