billy_anorak59 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 At the risk of sounding very stupid (not hard), can anyone advise please, as I've never heard the correct pronunciation of two railway carriage related words, and I'd like to sound half intelligent if they ever come up in conversation (not that they ever have, or are likely to). Bow-ended? Is it 'bow' as in the pointy-end of a ship? Or is it 'bow', as in 'longbow'. I can sort of see a link for both of them. Clerestory? Is it 'clear-story' or 'cle-rest-ory'. I'm presuming the former, but I just don't know. I wonder if there are any others I've been spouting wrongly over all these years. Apologies if the original question seems a bit basic, but someone once said the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 cle-rest-ry, when used in church architecture Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I would say it's bow as in longbow, as the ends of the coaches are bowed in a similar manner to the curve of a longbow. As you say, it's correctly pronounced 'clear-storey' (but usually 'clear-stree') which means something (like another floor, with windows to let light in). The 'e' in storey has been lost over time. I really don't know where this 'cle-res-tory' comes from in some people's minds! It doesn't mean anything, does it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2016 I would say it's bow as in longbow, as the ends of the coaches are bowed in a similar manner to the curve of a longbow. As you say, it's correctly pronounced 'clear-storey' (but usually 'clear-stree') which means something (like another floor, with windows to let light in). The 'e' in storey has been lost over time. I really don't know where this 'cle-res-tory' comes from in some people's minds! It doesn't mean anything, does it? Clerestory windows were originally used in various larger ecclesiastical buildings - many centuries before they appeared in railway carriages and it is possible there was another pronunciation in that usage. Incidentally it doesn't actually mean an additional storey as such but a raised area above the normal roof line in order to admit light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Clerestory windows were originally used in various larger ecclesiastical buildings - many centuries before they appeared in railway carriages and it is possible there was another pronunciation in that usage. Incidentally it doesn't actually mean an additional storey as such but a raised area above the normal roof line in order to admit light. I know, I was just simplifying it, and I did say 'like' in my description. The breakdown of the word into two syllables (not three) does describe it fairly accurately though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted December 5, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2016 I know, I was just simplifying it, and I did say 'like' in my description. The breakdown of the word into two syllables (not three) does describe it fairly accurately though. I always thought that it was "clair-est-ory" version (never having actually heard it pronounced AFAIK), but the point of it describing what it is makes a great deal of sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 "Boe-ended" "Cle-res-t'ry" (in my book) But then again, I always called 55009 "Ali-siddon" and only relatively recently altered to "Ali-si-don"! C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted December 5, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2016 Here's what the OED has to say about clerestory: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/clerestory The pronunciation is pretty obvious from the derivation and the US spelling even if you can't read the phonetics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Here's what the OED has to say about clerestory: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/clerestory The pronunciation is pretty obvious from the derivation and the US spelling even if you can't read the phonetics. And it even says it's origin as being Late Middle English "clear+storey". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 "Boe-ended" "Cle-res-t'ry" (in my book) But then again, I always called 55009 "Ali-siddon" and only relatively recently altered to "Ali-si-don"! C6T. I can feel the start of a new thread on the pronunciation of locomotive names following this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 At the risk of sounding very stupid (not hard), can anyone advise please, as I've never heard the correct pronunciation of two railway carriage related words, and I'd like to sound half intelligent if they ever come up in conversation (not that they ever have, or are likely to). Bow-ended? Is it 'bow' as in the pointy-end of a ship? Or is it 'bow', as in 'longbow'. I can sort of see a link for both of them. Clerestory? Is it 'clear-story' or 'cle-rest-ory'. I'm presuming the former, but I just don't know. I wonder if there are any others I've been spouting wrongly over all these years. Apologies if the original question seems a bit basic, but someone once said the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked... (i) - bow as in 'longbow' (ii) - clear-story................ written in "Ye Olde English". The old man was a cabinet maker and joiner, and built the occasional 'clear story' roof. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_anorak59 Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 Thanks everyone - all input most appreciated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted December 6, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2016 Here's what the OED has to say about clerestory: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/clerestory The pronunciation is pretty obvious from the derivation and the US spelling even if you can't read the phonetics. Press the loudspeaker button and a nice lady says it for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted December 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2016 Anyway, what about "dynamometer"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 It's spelt "Luxury Yacht", but pronounced "Mangrove Throat-Warbler"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 6, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2016 Anyway, what about "dynamometer"? This is one of the words which most seem to pronounce diner-mommeter when the two words which have been combined are dynamo and meter! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Anyway, what about "dynamometer"? I've only ever heard its pronounced "Dyna-momiter". Logically it ought to be "dynamo-meter", considering what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted December 6, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2016 This is one of the words which most seem to pronounce diner-mommeter when the two words which have been combined are dynamo and meter! Keith The nice lady agrees with your pronunciation, but not quite with your etymology: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dynamometer The stress agrees with other common ometers. When did you last come across a thermo-meter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I've only ever heard its pronounced "Dyna-momiter". Logically it ought to be "dynamo-meter", considering what it is. Logically? This is English pronounciation we're talking about here. When a Northerner tells a Southerner "There's no R in bath", the correct reply is "There's no R in tomato either, and no F in logic when it comes to pronunciation". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Logically? This is English pronounciation we're talking about here. When a Northerner tells a Southerner "There's no R in bath", the correct reply is "There's no R in tomato either, and no F in logic when it comes to pronunciation". As a Southerner myself (and not a West Country Southerner), I don't think any Southerner puts an R in their pronunciation of Bath or Tomato. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 As a Southerner myself (and not a West Country Southerner), I don't think any Southerner puts an R in their pronunciation of Bath or Tomato. I know that, and you know that, but have you tried googling "There's no R in bath" ? PS, glad you noticed the spelling joke in my first line. Meanwhile, back on topic, my New Shorter OED (3800-page edition) also confirms the pronunciation of clerestory as if it was "clear storey", and with the stress on the first syllable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 There is an r in bath, and castle. But there sure as hell ain't no u or r in locomotive. "lurker-mer-tive" indeed, I ask you..! Talk proper, like what I do, C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 There is an r in bath, and castle. But there sure as hell ain't no u or r in locomotive. "lurker-mer-tive" indeed, I ask you..! Talk proper, like what I do, C6T. Well if anyone says it as barth, or carstle, I've never heard it! That would sound like a Bristolian attempting received pronunciation... Ah, East Yorkshire. I have relatives there. When I'm there, and we have tea, it's: "Would you like a scern or a dernut?" "No thanks, I'll have some cake please, if you've got any." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Actually my previous statement was erroneous. A peculiarity of the Suffolk dialect doesn't put r in bath or castle, rather it extends the a in those words, so more like "caasel" and "baaf". I'm reminded of this by a friend who attempted local pronunciation of Stowmarket, which he made sound like the usual TV/film mistake of thinking Ipswich is near Bristol. Correctly it should be "Stumaakut". Conversely, we'll do away with unnecessary letters entirely, Elmswell up the road is thus "Emsul". And now, back to your advertised programme, C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Class. The ad, not the product, natch. "Myorca?" does it to me every time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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