Lifting BD containers

[spikey]

If a small goods yard had the occasional BD container that needed transferring from wagon to road vehicle, how would they have done that in the 1950's?  Surely your common or garden yard crane wouldn't have the height, even if it could take the load?

[jwealleans]

Get in a mobile crane.

[PhilH]

http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/kevin.htm

[The Stationmaster]

If a small goods yard had the occasional BD container that needed transferring from wagon to road vehicle, how would they have done that in the 1950's?  Surely your common or garden yard crane wouldn't have the height, even if it could take the load?

 

If people were doing what they should have been doing a container would not have been sent to a station which couldn't handle it or which had no ready access to a Divisional 'float' mobile crane.   All the originating station/goods depot had to do was consult the Handbook of Stations and if in doubt contact its District/Divisional Office to ask them to ascertain if the destination could handle container traffic

[spikey]

Thank you gentlemen.  Off now to see if anybody makes a suitable (kit for a?) mobile crane ...

[jonhall]

If there were a sudden flow of traffic, a one-off job worth the effort, or a breakage of a fixed crane, they might have sent one of the Triang/Hornby R127/R6004 hand cranes  to cover.

 

Jon

[phil_sutters]

In among the photos in #3 is the link to Langley's kit - http://www.langleymodels.co.uk/shop/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2elangleymodels%2eco%2euk%2fshop%2fss000001%2epl%3fpage%3dsearch%26PR%3d-1%26TB%3dA%26SS%3dcrane&WD=rapier%20crane&PN=Online_Catalogue_OO_Cranes__Heavy_plant___Road_Machinery___RW1_RW21_29%2ehtml%23aRW14#aRW14

[Rivercider]

Funnily enough I have been pondering a similar question recently to justify occasional container traffic to my modest little yard.

 

I realise the point of the containers was to allow locations not rail connected to send and receive goods, but is it possible

to empty a container without unloading it from a conflat? If so how common would it have been for a container to be emptied

in a goods yard, or goods shed?

I envisage an occasional container arrival with prompt unloading to get both conflat and container back in use for the next load.

 

cheers

[Merfyn Jones]

Funnily enough I have been pondering a similar question recently to justify occasional container traffic to my modest little yard.

 

I realise the point of the containers was to allow locations not rail connected to send and receive goods, but is it possible

to empty a container without  loading it from a conflat? If so how common would it have been for a container to be emptied

in a goods yard, or goods shed?

I envisage an occasional container arrival with prompt unloading to get both conflat and container back in use for the next load.

 

cheers

 

Yes a common practice, but the container must be on a Conflat, not a 5 plank open and be one of those fitted with side doors.

[Fat Controller]

Yes a common practice, but the container must be on a Conflat, not a 5 plank open and be one of those fitted with side doors.

The abattoirs at Lydford used to load the containers on the wagons, I believe, and had a platform to facilitate this. Just because the container could be lifted on and off, didn't mean that it was.

And here's a photo:- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmscontainer/h4e4c005a#h4e4bf562

[The Stationmaster]

If there were a sudden flow of traffic, a one-off job worth the effort, or a breakage of a fixed crane, they might have sent one of the Triang/Hornby R127/R6004 hand cranes  to cover.

 

Jon

 

Most likely for a decent flow of traffic would be an SD Freightlifter - far better for lifting containers than most other things and able to travel a sensible distance on public roads.   I'm not at all sure if the original of the Triang handcrane would be much use for handling a container and in any case I'm fairly certain that all of them belonged to the engineers who would raise a charge for another dept using them (if they could spare them).

[Fat Controller]

Most likely for a decent flow of traffic would be an SD Freightlifter - far better for lifting containers than most other things and able to travel a sensible distance on public roads.   I'm not at all sure if the original of the Triang handcrane would be much use for handling a container and in any case I'm fairly certain that all of them belonged to the engineers who would raise a charge for another dept using them (if they could spare them).

The wagon-mounted hand crane that Triang modelled represents a type that was originally designed to provide mobile lifting capabilities, specifically for 'materiél',  under the auspicies of the Government. There had also been numbers of three-axle mobile road cranes built under the same programme; their role had been considered sufficently important for them to take part in the Victory Parade in 1945. Later, the rail cranes went over to the engineers, quite often to the CMEE, where they were used for wagon -repairs. The one at Tonbridge West Yard was in use until fairly recently.

[spikey]

Been thinking some more about this whole containers lark, and a further question arises.  In the 1950s plus or minus 5 years say, what would a depot use for off-loading if they did get containers in on a regular basis which needed to finish their journeys by road?

[jwealleans]

Maybe you should have a read through this thread.

[Fat Controller]

Been thinking some more about this whole containers lark, and a further question arises.  In the 1950s plus or minus 5 years say, what would a depot use for off-loading if they did get containers in on a regular basis which needed to finish their journeys by road?

For fixed cranage, there were the traditional hand-worked cranes, and gantry cranes (usually electric) in bigger yards. For mobile cranage, BR used a selection of Coles and Jones cranes, along with the S&D Freightlifters, and older 'legacy' cranes.

[spikey]

Thank you once again, gentlemen.

[Ken.W]

Maybe you should have a read through this thread.

On the OP question of handling containers in small goods yards, the second photo in #10 of the thread linked above shows that a normal goods yard crane would handle these containers. On the Bachmann model the BD container's rated as just 4 tons. The difficulty would arise if two happened to turn up at the same time, as they'd rely on the pick-up goods engine doing the shunting, so once it's left they can't move the second wagon to the crane.

In larger yards handling a number of containers, providing a mobile crane would be much more convenient than having to reposition the wagons for the cranes

[davknigh]

There is a lorry mounted Coles Crane in the Airfix "RAF Recovery" set which may be adaptable to railway purposes.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Fat Controller]

On the OP question of handling containers in small goods yards, the second photo in #10 of the thread linked above shows that a normal goods yard crane would handle these containers. On the Bachmann model the BD container's rated as just 4 tons. The difficulty would arise if two happened to turn up at the same time, as they'd rely on the pick-up goods engine doing the shunting, so once it's left they can't move the second wagon to the crane.

In larger yards handling a number of containers, providing a mobile crane would be much more convenient than having to reposition the wagons for the cranes

Repositioning would probably be done by using one of the station horses, or by using a pinch bar to start the vehicle moving. They wouldn't bother detaining the goods engine for this.

[Merfyn Jones]

There is a lorry mounted Coles Crane in the Airfix "RAF Recovery" set which may be adaptable to railway purposes.

 

Cheers,

 

David

 

The LNER had one.

[micklner]

The LNER had one.

 

Photos and or source please .

[Southernman46]

Right up until the mid-80's , we had a BD container containing four DC circuit-breakers that were used in a programme to upgrade the original 1930's static exposed shelf type DC circuit-breakers on the Brighton, Portsmouth, Woking & Eastbourne sections. Basic premise was

 

drop the box off at  substation

 

disconnect the original CB's and connect the BD container CB's to the conductor rails - this would act a TP hut  

 

the original static CB's  within the substation would be removed, the shelf upgraded with screens / control equipment and refurbished / new truck mounted CB's installed

 

The conductor rail connections would be swapped and the new CB's commissioned.

 

The BD container would then be removed either to the next site or back to Horsham power supply depot

 

I have seen the BD box moved using Horsham's 35t steam crane during the early 80's and the diesel 35t tonner 96701 in later times.

 

Possibly the last use of a BD container on BR ? ...............................

[Merfyn Jones]

Photos and or source please .

 

New in June 1944 as GXW107 numbered P50, a Thornycroft Amazon WF/AC6/1 with Coles EMA crane. To BR who numbered it SC3 P50 E.

 

I

 

have photos of both liveries but they are not mine to share.

 

They were probably from British Railways Magazine or Transport Age.

[jwealleans]

Fascinating. Do we know where it worked?

[The Johnster]

Could a container with end doors, on it's conflat, be unloaded at an end loading dock?  I've been doing this on my model, at least I've been stabling the wagon there and imagining it taking place, and will have to stop if the the answer is no!