RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2016 . I actually put it on a rolling road to check current draw at all speeds and at various settings eg with lights and sounds etc. Then set Powercab to show track current - Program 6 (Set Cab Parameters) Press 1 to show track current. Which of course is with no load on the loco at all, it's not even dragging it's own mass around! The true current when running with 6, 8 or 10 bogies etc. behind will be somewhat more. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I have an NCE Powercab,....... Then set Powercab to show track current - Program 6 (Set Cab Parameters) Press 1 to show track current. See Page 57 in the System Reference Manual. Thanks cravensdmufan, So the answer was under my nose all along! Doh! You say that current readings should only be taken on the Programming Track, but could readings also be taken on the layout if no other locos are present? I'll conduct more tests of my own in the next few days now I know what the Powercab can do. It will be very interesting to see if there is a significant difference between DCC current reported by the Powercab with a particular loco type and load versus the same loco type and load running under DC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 16, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2016 I have an NCE Powercab, To check how much current a loco is drawing I put it on a seperate piece of track that I use for programming (completely seperate from the layout).. I actually put it on a rolling road to check current draw at all speeds and at various settings eg with lights and sounds etc. Then set Powercab to show track current - Program 6 (Set Cab Parameters) Press 1 to show track current. See Page 57 in the System Reference Manual. I don't have a prog track, instead using the whole layout in prog track mode (with only one loco of course). Will check to see if this screen is impacted by my powercabs dodgy display and hopefully give it a try. No chance. Unless you can find a decoder that is no bigger than the blanking plug you're stuffed! Even the plug itself has little room for manouevre. Quite why Bachmann did it this way is anybody's guess but it certainly isn't the most elegant layout. Before this there had been two generations of split chassis Halls! Keith DCC concepts offer two options, the 2nd of which is described as being the size of a DCC plug. Will be interesting to see if it fits. Of course Bachman need to do a modified hall in GWR first... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2016 DCC concepts offer two options, the 2nd of which is described as being the size of a DCC plug. Will be interesting to see if it fits. Of course Bachman need to do a modified hall in GWR first... If you mean the Zen Nano which is descrbed as "The world's smallest 8 pin Direct", it is still somewhat bigger than a bare plug which only just fits as it is! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Thanks to cravensdmufan for pointing out that the NCE Powercab can be configured to show current. I should have RTFM! Anyway, I have just repeated the current test I described earlier in this thread (new Hornby Castle, 7 bogies, straight test track) only this time measuring DCC current rather than DC current. Interestingly the Powercab showed a peak of 0.16A (160mA), almost exactly the same as the 150mA I had witnessed with an ammeter in circuit on DC. The current level seemed to fluctuate much on DCC however, probably due to the rapidly switching nature of Pulse Width Modulation as opposed to the stability of Full Wave rectified DC? The decoder in question was a Zimo MX630. Whatever the case, it seems these current levels are comfortably within the maximum ratings of the decoders we have discussed on this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 ...the 2015 Bachmann Modified Hall uses exactly the same chassis block as the earlier Collett Hall and hence the decoder socket and decoder pocket are exactly the same as before. Bachmann's refusal to retool the chassis block resulted in the historically inaccurate "front end" under the smokebox and they were rightly lambasted for that. The fact that decoder installation remained as awkward as ever seemed to have passed under the radar of most modellers. In contrast, the 2015 Hornby Collett Hall has the 8 pin decoder in the tender ... It doesn't help you, but that layout suggests to me that Bach may at one time have been planning a decoder socket in the tender for this model. The location of the decoder socket is directly above where the terminal of the 4 way lead to the tender would go, in the mechanisms that have this feature. Obvious suggestion, with the decoder plug turned round, how difficult is it to create a pathway in the loco and tender bodies for the four wires required such that the decoder can be placed inside the tender? (This also enables that bulky lightweight decoder pocket to be discarded and useful weight placed over the driving wheels, so it is a win all round.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Obvious suggestion, with the decoder plug turned round, how difficult is it to create a pathway in the loco and tender bodies for the four wires required such that the decoder can be placed inside the tender? (This also enables that bulky lightweight decoder pocket to be discarded and useful weight placed over the driving wheels, so it is a win all round.) Hi 34theletterbetweenB&D, Thanks for your suggestion. It's probably very 'doable'. You'd have to cut a hole in the floor of the tender which would be straight forward. It gets trickier routing the decoder wires rearwards from the loco chassis as both the drawbar locating pin and two body mounting screws are behind the decoder socket! Still, probably doable. Although Bachmann's arrangement is b####y fiddly, I have stuck to it even though it entails removing the ballast weight from the decoder pocket. Elsewhere on the net some folk have witnessed an unacceptable loss in performance. My three are all able to start a 7 coach load from rest even with the ballast weight gone and that's adequate for my needs. I suspect (but don't know for a fact) that the best solution for this loco is to acquire a decoder without an NEM652 plug attached (the wires tend to be longer!), shove the decoder in the smokebox, leave the ballast weight in-situ and hard-wire the decoder. I am still 'finding my feet' with soldering however so that's a project for another day! My next project is to fit a newly acquired Brassmasters' "Modified Hall" detailing kit to "Foremarke Hall" to correct Bachmann's bodged front end! After that I'll have the joy of trying to squeeze another MX600 into it........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjeffery Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Just to add my thoughts - I started with the standard Hornby decoder, and straight away was disappointed. after a bit or research i bought two Zimo mx600r decoders - they are AMAZING. for budget range they still have lots of features, and have made all my locos run perfectly. I recently bought a C*ck O the North and found it really jerky in DC. After fitting a Zimo chip the beast crawls along beautifully. I have been so impressed i buy 2 Zimo mx600r's a month and will be putting them in to all my fleet as money allows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2016 Although Bachmann's arrangement is b####y fiddly, I have stuck to it even though it entails removing the ballast weight from the decoder pocket. Elsewhere on the net some folk have witnessed an unacceptable loss in performance. My three are all able to start a 7 coach load from rest even with the ballast weight gone and that's adequate for my needs. As I mentioned before and even with a full size decoder (Lenz Standard +) there is room for some lead which gives a net increase in weight (the original ballast weight is not particularly heavy). Don't faff about with long wires etc. just put in some lead! (Or if you happen to have some tungsten lying around........ ) Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2016 Just to add my thoughts - I started with the standard Hornby decoder, and straight away was disappointed. after a bit or research i bought two Zimo mx600r decoders - they are AMAZING. for budget range they still have lots of features, and have made all my locos run perfectly. I recently bought a C*ck O the North and found it really jerky in DC. After fitting a Zimo chip the beast crawls along beautifully. I have been so impressed i buy 2 Zimo mx600r's a month and will be putting them in to all my fleet as money allows. Still cost a pound or two more than a Lenz Standard + which is one of the best budget decoders around. Likewise my 2001 runs nicely with the Lenz in. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Which of course is with no load on the loco at all, it's not even dragging it's own mass around! The true current when running with 6, 8 or 10 bogies etc. behind will be somewhat more. Keith Yes Keith, I see your point. So it's probably best to take all your other locos off the layout and see what the reading is with just the the one loco with train attached. I'll try that myself with one of mine hauling 7 coaches. It will be interesting to see how much different the current draw is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2016 Yes Keith, I see your point. So it's probably best to take all your other locos off the layout and see what the reading is with just the the one loco with train attached. I'll try that myself with one of mine hauling 7 coaches. It will be interesting to see how much different the current draw is. Is the NCE unit able to measure track current with normal usage? Sounds like a useful function. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 You say that current readings should only be taken on the Programming Track, but could readings also be taken on the layout if no other locos are present?. 7007GW - it appears that would in fact be a better option to take a reading with the loco hauling a train, as per Keith's advice in post #26. Do make sure you take every other loco off though! I made a mistake once when reprogramming when I forgot about two hiding in a loco shed! I use my Powercab "Starter Set" to control diesels. About 20 sitting on the layout, but would only have 3 trains actually moving at any one time with sound and lights. I haul up to 7 coaches on each train. The Powercab 's maximum of 2 amps seems to be enough for my requirements. It never cut out....yet! CDF Having said that I don't have any signals, point motors or building lights on the DCC. I still use anologue for those things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Is the NCE unit able to measure track current with normal usage? Sounds like a useful function. Keith Yes Keith, it definitely does just that. CDF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2016 Yes Keith, it definitely does just that. CDF OK. My DR5000 does that as well but my Lenz LH 100 does not. If you measure the track current with all locos on the track but not operating. Then measure the track current with the required loco under load. The difference will be what the loco under load is drawing. Cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 7007GW - it appears that would in fact be a better option to take a reading with the loco hauling a train, as per Keith's advice in post #26. Do make sure you take every other loco off though! I made a mistake once when reprogramming when I forgot about two hiding in a loco shed! Hi CDF, That's exactly what I did this very morning - see Post #30. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Hi CDF, That's exactly what I did this very morning - see Post #30. Sorry 7007 my apologies, I should have read previous post properly. Keith and 7007GW, OK, took all other locos off and just tested one loco. Decoder - ESU Loksound v4 on board a Bachmann Class 47: Loco just sitting on track with lights and sound ticking over = 0.01 amps Loco running light at max speed = 0.16 amps With 7 coaches (quite heavy Airfix Mk2d's with metal wheels fitted) at max speed = 0.22 amps CDF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Sorry 7007 my apologies, I should have read previous post properly. Keith and 7007GW, OK, took all other locos off and just tested one loco. Decoder - ESU Loksound v4 on board a Bachmann Class 47: Loco just sitting on track with lights and sound ticking over = 0.01 amps Loco running light at max speed = 0.16 amps With 7 coaches (quite heavy Airfix Mk2d's with metal wheels fitted) at max speed = 0.22 amps CDF Hi CDF, Yep, those readings are very similar to what I was seeing earlier today. Hornby Castle load 7 bogies: 160mA (Zimo MX630) . Bachmann "Warship" load 7 bogies: 210mA (Lenz Silver+ 21pin). The only difference is that my locos were producing these readings from starting from stationary whereas yours were at full tilt! Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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