South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[The Johnster]

My new eBay 56xx has turned up at my local Argos click and collect and, having clicked, I duly collected it earlier this avo.   I am happy with it for just under £50; it runs very smoothly straight out of the box and looks like a black BR 56xx.  I've lined it up next to my original to see what the differences are.  The original, to recap for those who've just tuned in, is the body of the first production run of Mainline's black BR 56xx, which I'd repainted in BR lined green before Mainline brought theirs out, but running on a current production Bachmann chassis after it's Mainline one died on me and recently repainted in to black.

 

There are differences.  The new girl has sprung buffers, cab detail, and handrails on the footplate above the forward steps, metal lamp irons, better whistles, and detail is crisper, but to be fair to the original it has had several coats of paint which have no doubt softened the outlines a bit.  There is a packet containing brake rigging, and two white discs; I have no idea what these latter are for.  They could be intended to be target discs for South Wales work (the loco is 6658 with an 88C (Barry) shedcode plate), but have rims around them which don't appear on photographs and what I assume are sliders on the back to fit on lamp irons.  Why would there be two of them?  Dimensionally the two locos seem identical to all intents and purposes, but the footplate of the new one is fractionally longer at the front.  I know there are new toolings because of the fitting I had to do to attach a current chassis to my old body, but this is really the only difference that I can see outside the cab.  

 

As I said, I have no complaints at this price for what seems to be a brand new model, but I suspect it might be a QC failure, in which case it shouldn't have been released to distribution, or more likely  a return item.  There are minor faults; the rear buffer beam is not sprayed red completely and fades in the upper half (looks a bit like weathering, but the model isn't weathered), there is a bit of flash here and there, the left hand side unicycling lion is peeling off, and there are no bunker side numbers or red RA spots.  And the smokebox number is a bit tatty.  None of these matters bothers me at all, as I'm intending a different livery and will be buying new numberplates anyway, but I do feel that this should have been pointed out by the seller if he was aware of it; he may of course not have been and been acting in good faith.  Let's give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but if it happens again I'll be naming and shaming to warn people.

 

She'll share duties with 6602, which is to be renumbered 6601 as stated, but I haven't decided on the new loco's number yet.  I am determined that she will not carry the unicycling lion though, and am considering a black alternative austerity livery, G W R initials or very early 1948 BR Egyptian Serif 1920s GW style lettering.  The number will be one of those listed on RailUK as allocated to Tondu in 1948.

 

More faults discovered with this model.  I noticed yesterday evening that no light seemed to be entering the cab through the cab windows, and this is because somebody has sprayed black paint over them from the outside.  I've done a bit of stripping down today, and it is beginning to look as if this loco's had a bit of a history in it's apparently short life; to be fair it was advertised as 'pre owned'. But it looks very much as if it started life in green livery and has been resprayed, and this would explain the poor coverage of the rear buffer beam; it's not that the red wasn't sprayed on properly, but that a later sprayed coat of black has half covered it because it wasn't properly masked.  

 

It did occur to me that the missing number plates on the bunker sides might be sprayed over as well, but a bit of scraping shows there's nothing under there.  I've tried to get the paint off the cab front windows, with some success but they are very badly fogged, and I may replace them with 'Paint'n'Glaze'.  I've removed the cab front/roof moulding to get at them, and found when I prised out the glazing piece that the windows were still there, in the form of a coat of semi opaque and semi transluscent blue coloured spray paint; I cannot believe that this was factory applied.  I am making an assumption that black liveried body mouldings are made of black plastic and green liveried ones are sprayed; this one just looks badly sprayed black over green when you take the body off.  

 

On the plus side, while I've got the cab open I can put a crew in there and pick out gauges, handles, and other details on the backhead.  This is worth doing as the light strikes on them from some angles, and even if it doesn't, I'll know I've done it and feel better about it...  

 

The plastic coal comes out easily which means it can be replaced by real coal to a lower level, though a cast ballast weight means that I can't model the bunker empty or nearly empty.  It'll be good to have another loco without an overfilled bunker and in which you can't see the coal from platform or ground level.  But the coal moulding includes the lamp protection plate, which will have to cut carefully off to preserve it; it has some rivet detail which would not be so easy to provide on a replacement piece if I home made one.  So the real coal project depends a bit on how good I am at cutting this piece out in one, um, piece!  This will be the task for this evening, along with picking out backhead detail, and perhaps reglazing the cab windows, but the job will be on hold then until I can acquire a crew; think I'll go Modelu this time.  

 

While I've got the 'Glue'n'Glaze' out I'll do the rear windows as well; I've done this on another loco and it does catch the light occasionally, so is worth doing.  Thinking about it this is probably a job better left to sheet glazing as the liquid glass will capilliarise itself into the coal bars, but the time to do it is while the roof's off.

 

I'm enjoying the model despite the faults though; it is still reasonable for the price I paid and the work involved is within my comfort zone and the sort of modelling I rather like doing.  Running is as good as RTR gets; she is a delight to operate.  I am going to try an experiment with this loco that I have found effective on coaching stock, that of painting the under surface of the cab roof in white to distribute light a bit better in the cab.  This will be invisible from most angles, and I have not found it to be intrusively obvious from even low angles with the coaching stock.  

 

I still don't know for certain what the white discs are for!

Edited September 14, 2018 by The Johnster

[Budgie]

I still don't know for certain what the white discs are for!

They're for the target numbers.

[The Johnster]

Thought they might be, but thanks for confirming it.  There are 2, which will cover both my coal duties.  I will do some experimenting tomorrow to see if they can be attached to my standard no.13 staple lamp irons on the other locos.

[chrisf]

AFAIK one end only, and there'd be no need that I can see for them to be carried both ends.  The photos I've seen show plain discs without rims to them; the ones in the bag have quite pronounced rims.  They are not lettered or numbered in any way; one might expect a loco with a Barry, 88C, code to be carrying a Barry target.  I may be wrong, but they look a little large in diameter to me as well.  Just measured them and they scale out at about 2 feet; as I say, I may be wrong but 18" seems more like it to me.  Their purpose was to identify the many very similar looking coal trains to the signalmen to ensure that they were routed properly and that Traffic was informed of their progress.

 

I'm going to have to do more research into this, as I want my mineral trains and probably the pick up goods to carry Tondu targets ultimately, 'U' prefixed.  They will have to be fictional, of course, as no real Tondu job ever went to Cwmdimbath owing to the lack of a railway, village, coal mine, or anything but trees and sheep.  There is no mention of the purpose of my white discs in the paperwork included in the box, so I'm guessing a bit!

 

It was not unknown for locos to be loaned between sheds.  As you mention Barry I should say that it supplied two standard 3 tanks for Merthyr based diagrams.  Similarly the two auto fitted 45xx tanks used on the Maerdy branch were from the Cathays allocation and carried Ferndale targets.

 

Chris

[The Johnster]

Thanks Chris; didn't know about the Barry 3MTs at Merthyr, but did about the Ferndale autos.

 

Now that it is confirmed that these are target discs, I am wondering how to attach them to the loco(s).  There is a groove on the back but it does not fit the lamp brackets on the loco (incidentally these are the best lamp brackets I've ever seen on an RTR model, solid metal and a good scale appearance) or the staple brackets I use on my other locos.  I may well end up making my own.

 

'Loaner' locos, officially based away from their home shed or unofficially 'borrowed', are classic Rule 1 fodder, and my 4166, from Tyseley, is such, as will my Taff A, borrowed from Barry, if I ever finish it.

 

What I have finished is the glazing and painting last night, but not the bunker lamp iron protection plate, this is a job for later today.  Once that is done, the now anonymous new 56xx will only await numbers, a crew, and transfers before a final coat of varnish and weathering completes her.  Black 1948 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' Egyptian Serif is the current favourite; more Rule 1 because I have no idea if any of Tondu's 56xx, or anything else at Tondu, every carried this short lived livery.

[The Johnster]

I've also picked up another chassis donor for my older wagons, a current production secondhand Bachmann GW BR liveried 'Fruit' van for £7.50 from Lord and Butler's.  This reinstates an old Mainline Lowfit to service, and an Oxford tractor has been loaded on to it for now.

[chesterfield]

AFAIK one end only, and there'd be no need that I can see for them to be carried both ends.  The photos I've seen show plain discs without rims to them; the ones in the bag have quite pronounced rims.  They are not lettered or numbered in any way; one might expect a loco with a Barry, 88C, code to be carrying a Barry target.  I may be wrong, but they look a little large in diameter to me as well.  Just measured them and they scale out at about 2 feet; as I say, I may be wrong but 18" seems more like it to me.  Their purpose was to identify the many very similar looking coal trains to the signalmen to ensure that they were routed properly and that Traffic was informed of their progress.

 

I'm going to have to do more research into this, as I want my mineral trains and probably the pick up goods to carry Tondu targets ultimately, 'U' prefixed.  They will have to be fictional, of course, as no real Tondu job ever went to Cwmdimbath owing to the lack of a railway, village, coal mine, or anything but trees and sheep.  There is no mention of the purpose of my white discs in the paperwork included in the box, so I'm guessing a bit!

I l looked at the photos in Rickards Vol 2 especially the rear loose cover and the target in that photo seems to be twice the size of the buffer so maybe 24inches is closer to the mark

[The Johnster]

Yes, I agree, they are about twice the size of the buffers which makes them about 2 feet; 18 inches is too small.

[The Johnster]

More number plates have arrived from Modelmaster Jackson Evans, very quickly this time.  I only ordered them on Thursday evening, so this is return of post stuff; excellent!

 

This means I can finish the new 56xx, ok, it's not new it's secondhand from 'Bay, and rectify the anomaly (saw this on a placard in a Trade Union demo march in town once, NUT IIRC; 'Rectify The Anomaly', with no explanation as to what the anomaly was and why it needed to be altered from alternating to direct current; the 80s were fun...) with my other 56xx, which I stupidly and incorrectly numbered 6602.  I meant 6601, but even this is not the best Tondu loco in the circumstances for my time period, as it was not at the shed in 1948 according to RailUK, my prime source on this stuff, though it was withdrawn from the shed when it closed in 1963.  I have decided that my best policy is to go for locos at the shed in 1948 or on first allocation, and if they were withdrawn from Tondu as well so much the better.  

 

The new loco is to be 5633, and I have finished it in a (probably inaccurate) late 1948/early '49 livery, unlined black with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in Gill Sans.  The other one, an old Mainline body on a recent Baccy chassis, will now be 6642, in unlined unicycling lion.  As this stand, this loco is anonymously dirtier than 5633 in the earlier livery, but there's going to be a couple of coats of weathering gunk mix going on to 5633 later today, then matt varnish.  5633's plates will be red backed; I ordered them before I realised that Modelmaster offer the option, but it's not hard to do, just paint the plates red and wipe the paint off the numbers and border.  

 

I'll be doing this to 4145, the body of 4166, and 9681 as well.

 

Also in the envelope was a sheet of 'Code 86' shedplate transfers, of which 3 are 86F Tondu.  There are 4 86E which I might be able to convert to F with a spot of black paint, so possibly 7 locos can be fitted with them.  I'll prioritise though; first will be 8448 which is the quintessential Tondu engine; spent it's entire working life there!  4145 and 2761 are in G W R liveries and will not carry shedplates; I'm fairly certain 2761, withdrawn 31/3/50 and probably out of use for some time before that, never carried BR shedplates or a smokebox number.  4214 and 6408 carry incorrect shed plates and will be the next 2 on the list.

 

6408 is another livery anomaly.  It is in unlined unicycling black, but the prototype was in lined green ferret and dartboard by the time it came to Tondu from Laira, so is really not only in the wrong livery for the shed but at bit late for my period, as are all Tondu's 64xx.  It is far too useful a loco to withdraw from service, though, and I'm keeping it in unlined black unicycling lion.  I may consider withdrawal and use of the chassis beneath 2761, which is an indifferent runner, at some time, or institute a chassis share for these locos, in which case I'll have to live with the fishbelly coupling rods on 2761.

 

4581 is in unicycling lion lined green, and almost certainly needs a repaint in unlined black, but I am prevaricating on this job.  The loco was bought from a certain sheepish gentleman of this parish and is superbly weathered; it'll be a shame to paint over this excellent work. But I need to find a prototype for early 1948 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' Egyptian Serif livery, and 4581 is in the frame at the moment, possibly in unlined green.

 

When 5633 is finished, I reckon there will be a photo session showing some of this work!

[Happy Hippo]

5633 is one of the locos I'd like to model as later on she turned up at Radyr!

 

There is a nice photo in the 56xx papers  of her at Radyr in 1963 having just been out shopped ( Caerphilly probably) in unlined green.

 

To see a tank engine so well turned out at such a late date is a real joy.

[The Johnster]

Yes, I remember her at Radyr.  I'm not sure about the Caerphilly repainting; some engines were certainly sent out from there in unlined green, but the works closed in January of 1963 and an ex-works loco later that year is much more likely to have been Swindon's work.

 

I should have finished the weathering and matt varnish later today, so stand by for photos.  Incidentally there are 4 86F shed plate transfers on the sheet, not 3; apologies for misrepresenting your excellent product Mr Modelmaster sir!

[The Johnster]

I've finished the weathering and applied the shed code plate to 5633, which only now requires rear lamp brackets (unless I restrict her to ordinary passenger work running bunker first) and a crew before I regard her as a completed project.  My thanks to Ian Tomparryharry for pointing her out to me on 'Bay.  

 

There are 5 86F plates on a Modelmaster transfer sheet, and all locos carrying incorrect plates have now been rectified.  I have attempted to convert E to F with black paint on the E plates on the same sheet, and managed 4 out of 5 reasonably well so long as you don't get in there with the magnifying glass.  I'm now having a break for a cuppa and this missive while the paint goes off before applying them to the other locos that need them.

 

They all look very bright and newly painted, and a dab of weathering gunk will seal them and take the edge of the shiny, but I'm not going to do that til tomoz in order for them to dry off thoroughly; the last thing I want is them floating away in dilute weathering gunk!  

 

5633 should be ready for her official portrait when I've done that.  She has a very different feel, somehow, to 6642, the old one, though the chassis are identical, both locos answer to the controller in exactly the same very smooth and predictable way, and the body mouldings are not quite identical but very similar.  Both are similarly weathered, and I think this may be the psychological root of the illusory 'difference'.  My brain expects a 1948 liveried loco with red backed numberplates to be dirtier than a classmate in a livery dating from at least 2 years later (black backed numberplates) from the same shed and doing the same work viewed from a perhaps 1953 perspective.  It makes up the difference by an assumption that 5633 is, for some reason, preferred for passenger work despite her somewhat higher mileage, and is hence looked after better, or more realistically in terms of Tondu in the 50s, not neglected to quite the same extent.  At any rate she has the feel of a loco that has spent less time in the immediate vicinity of coal mine washeries and screens...  She seems somehow larger than her older classmate as well (I mean the model is older, the real 6642 is of course newer than the real 5633); I can't explain this but rather like it; no two steam engines were ever the same as anyone who worked with them will tell you, and this sort of expresses that, entirely accidentally.

 

The actual differences, livery apart, in the body mouldings are that 5633 has handrails on the footplate above the front steps, better buffers than 6642's cast whitemetals, and better whistles.  6642 has the traditional and unavoidable full bunker of coal, a layer of real coal over the old plastic moulding, whereas 5633's is about ¾ full, but this should not make such a difference to the overall impression of two very different locos which are in fact almost identical.  I am considering restoring 6642's copper capped chimney and brass safety valve cover to emphasise the point.

Edited September 23, 2018 by The Johnster

[tomparryharry]

I've finished the weathering and applied the shed code plate to 5633, which only now requires rear lamp brackets (unless I restrict her to ordinary passenger work running bunker first) and a crew before I regard her as a completed project.  My thanks to Ian Tomparryharry for pointing her out to me on 'Bay.  

 

There are 5 86F plates on a Modelmaster transfer sheet, and all locos carrying incorrect plates have now been rectified.  I have attempted to convert E to F with black paint on the E plates on the same sheet, and managed 4 out of 5 reasonably well so long as you don't get in there with the magnifying glass.  I'm now having a break for a cuppa and this missive while the paint goes off before applying them to the other locos that need them.

 

They all look very bright and newly painted, and a dab of weathering gunk will seal them and take the edge of the shiny, but I'm not going to do that til tomoz in order for them to dry off thoroughly; the last thing I want is them floating away in dilute weathering gunk!  

 

5633 should be ready for her official portrait when I've done that.  She has a very different feel, somehow, to 6642, the old one, though the chassis are identical, both locos answer to the controller in exactly the same very smooth and predictable way, and the body mouldings are not quite identical but very similar.  Both are similarly weathered, and I think this may be the psychological root of the illusory 'difference'.  My brain expects a 1948 liveried loco with red backed numberplates to be dirtier than a classmate in a livery dating from at least 2 years later (black backed numberplates) from the same shed and doing the same work viewed from a perhaps 1953 perspective.  It makes up the difference by an assumption that 5633 is, for some reason, preferred for passenger work despite her somewhat higher mileage, and is hence looked after better, or more realistically in terms of Tondu in the 50s, not neglected to quite the same extent.  At any rate she has the feel of a loco that has spent less time in the immediate vicinity of coal mine washeries and screens...  She seems somehow larger than her older classmate as well (I mean the model is older, the real 6642 is of course newer than the real 5633); I can't explain this but rather like it; no two steam engines were ever the same as anyone who worked with them will tell you, and this sort of expresses that, entirely accidentally.

 

The actual differences, livery apart, in the body mouldings are that 5633 has handrails on the footplate above the front steps, better buffers than 6642's cast whitemetals, and better whistles.  6642 has the traditional and unavoidable full bunker of coal, a layer of real coal over the old plastic moulding, whereas 5633's is about ¾ full, but this should not make such a difference to the overall impression of two very different locos which are in fact almost identical.  I am considering restoring 6642's copper capped chimney and brass safety valve cover to emphasise the point.

Simples, young Johnster. In my world, one had its intermediate at Barry, the other, Aberdare or Ebbw Junction. Either shed doing overhauls at this time.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[The Johnster]

Quite.

 

Here's 5633's promised portrait, running in to the loop with a train of coal empties.  That smokebox number plate doesn't look central, and the 86F shed code plate is far too new and shiny, but otherwise she looks suitably workmanlike and scruffy.  I'm not quite happy with the finish yet, though, and will be putting on a coat of coal dust based weathering; this should tone the shed code down a little bit!

 

Order off to Modelu this afternoon for her crew and some more lamps.  I don't seem to ever have enough lamps, and the attrition rate is high, so I must pay some attention to the 'damage limiting handling device' I have yet to build but have all sorts of ideas for.  The main issue seems to be that the handles break off, both on Springsides and Modelus, but some Modelus have succumbed to the body ripping out if I am not very careful about removing them from the staple brackets.  And I have no idea how many have been sacrificed to the Carpet Monster.  None of my lamps will fit on 5633's brackets, by the way, which I assume are scale.

 

All in all the lamp issue is not the done deal I thought it was a while ago, and ideas are floating around in the empty space once occupied by what they tell was a fairly good brain.  Watch 'Lamps!' thread for more exciting developments...

Edited September 25, 2018 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Numbering anomalies.

 

I have been using the Rail UK site to ascertain which locos were allocated to Tondu and when, but have very recently become aware of the very good BR Database site, from a link on this site in another thread.  This has raises some questions over some of my locos, especially in the wake of the 6602 that should have been 6601 debacle, which was entirely down to my own inattention and no fault of Rail UK.  

 

Rail UK gives you the allocations in 3 forms, which overlap; locos allocated on !st January 1948 or supplied new to Tondu shed after that, locos withdrawn from the shed with the date of withdrawal, and those appearing in both lists.  A loco appearing in both lists is a dead cert (or at least I thought it was), and I'm 100% certain of the 2 examples on Cwmdimbath, 2761, which was in the 1/1/48 list and withdrawn 31/5/50, and 8448, new to shed in June 1954 and withdrawn from shed end of August 1959.

 

I have tried to concentrate recently on locos from the 1948/new list, as transferrings in late in my period of locos then appearing on the withdrawn from Tondu list has resulted in some examples of locos that are either very late in my 1948-58 time frame or too modern for it.  This has become apparent from looking at the BR Database site, which lists the allocations differently.

 

Unlike Rail UK, which approaches things in a loco number order which makes matters easier when you are looking for examples, BR Database does things in a single list of locos transferred in, delivered new, transferred out, or withdrawn from Tondu in chronological order.  It starts in 1945, but there is a list of 'arrivals and departures' going back to 1939.   Cross checking the lists should give fairly accurate information, but there are anomalies.

 

2761 is not mentioned at all by BR Database's Tondu entry, nor is 9681 (new to Tondu 31/5/49).  I can't find any mention of 3100 either, but that doesn't matter until I model it.  6408 has a question mark over her anyway as too late an arrival for my purposes and lack of photographic evidence of 64xx on Valleys workings out of Tondu (the Porthcawl branch seems to have been their stomping ground), but she is another loco that does not feature on BR Database's Tondu entry.

 

So, I'm going through them loco by loco on BR Database's search facility one by one to assess the situation.  Starting with:-

 

2761- not on BRD Tondu allocation list, but loco search confirms withdrawal from Tondu May '50, with note that this is SLS information not cross checked.  100% happy with this loco as it is; livery confirmed by photographic evidence Swindon 1950.

 

4145 - The only 5101 mentioned in RailUK, 1948 Tondu delivered new to shed 1946.  BRD does not give initial allocation but states xfer to Canton 10/48.  So very short time at Tondu my period. BRD mentions several 5101 at Tondu various dates, all xferred away before withdrawal so don't appear at all on RUK.  Renumbering candidate.

 

4166 - Rule 1 'loan' from Tyseley to include lined black mixed traffic livery.  100% happy with this loco as it is.

 

4214 - 1948 Tondu according to RUK, Aberbeeg according to BRD, which states loco xferred from Newport Pill 6/63 and at Tondu until xfer to Ebbw Jc 5/64.  If correct, 4214 is unsuitable for my purposes. BRD states loco allocated to Aberbeeg 2/48, so it could have been at Tondu at the beginning of that year for a month or so.  Very unlikely to have been in BR black unicycling lion at either time; a definite candidate for renumbering.

 

4581 - Crosschecks ok. Xfer from Cathays 7/56, withdrawn ex Tondu  4/58.  Almost certainly in incorrect lined green unicycling lion livery inherited from when the model was 4587, but I already suspected this.  Not at Tondu very long, probably better examples to model.

 

5633 - RUK 1948 allocation Tondu, BRD xfer Canton 5/51.  Late 1948 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' sans serif a bit iffy but not impossible.

 

5756 - Crosschecks ok.  Xfer from Aberbeeg 3/46, xfer to Pontypool Road 6/52.  Probably in incorrect livery; unlined green or black G W R (possibly grotesque) more likely than unicycling lion.

 

6408 - Doesn't crosscheck.  According to RUK withdrawn from Tondu 2/62; BRD crosschecks but states shed Aberbeeg.  I have no definite evidence that this or any early pattern bunker 64xx was ever at Tondu except for RailUK, and it is in any case too late for my period.  Not sure what to do with this loco now.

 

6642 - RUK 1948 Tondu, BRD xfer Aberbeeg 9/50.  Unicycling lion black unlikely while at Tondu

 

8448 - Crosschecks ok, Tondu for entire working life as above.  100% happy with this loco as it is.

 

9681 - Crosschecks ok.  New to Tondu 5/49 xfer Oswestry 4/56.  100% happy with this loco as it is.

 

Summarising, of 11 locos (10 and a swappy body), 4 are known to be in the correct livery for the period, one is definitely unsuitable unless renumbered, another is just plain unsuitable and not confirmed as a Tondu engine, and the other 5 are highly unlikely in the liveries modelled for those numbers, some of which were only at the shed for a very short time.  

 

We need a rethink.  Some repainting will probably be required, a different 42xx number is needed, and the short periods some locos stayed at the shed means that some new identities are advisable for others as well.  I will go through BRD information again and try to pick long stay examples within my 1948-58 period window, but some liveries will still be best guesswork and some anomalies will occur of locos that were not allocated to Tondu at the same time.  This was already known to be the case with 2761 and 8448; the best I can do is keep it to a minimum bearing in mind my intention to feature as much as possible of the livery variation available at this period, the main reason I chose it.  I'll be sorry to lose 6408, a lovely little engine and a good runner, but I can't find any evidence that any 64xx was at Tondu in my period.

 

BRD shows some locos with very short periods at Tondu before re-allocation or withdrawal, especially later towards the shed's closure, and it is probable that many of these transfers never actually took place except on paper.  I will try to note photographic evidence as much as possible; this already suggests 5555 as a replacement for 4581.

 

Modelmaster Jackson Evans haven't heard the last of me yet!

Edited September 26, 2018 by The Johnster

[Ian Smeeton]

There is also http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't (yet) seem to have an entry for Tondu.

 

might be worth contacting, or just keeping an eye on.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Happy Hippo]

If you were depicting a scale model of an actual location on a certain day, then you could narrow down your fleet considerably, dress entirely in hair shirts and pontificate in best rivet counting fashion.

 

However, Cwmdimbath is a fictional location where the time frame is around a decade, so taking a few liberties with loco allocations is not the end of the world.

 

So don't beat yourself up about it.

 

6408 is actually a previously unrecorded Tondu allocation which happened for a few months between leaving Merthyr and  ending up at Barry. (Shed, not scrapyard.)

 

After all, there are many who don't know one pannier class from another let alone understand the individual loco allocations in S Wales which oft resembled a chess game!

 

Take a few liberties, as a Cardiffian, you will know the area, so I will steal your thread for a few moments.

 

My 7 mm  scale shunting plank is called Splott West Sidings which is a fictional location.  It's in a slightly difficult to map area between the S Wales main line and north of the  Cardiff docks.

 

It has a rudimentary passenger service that is accessed from both Cardiff (Riverside) and Queen Street stations, because I took some slight liberties with the Cooke track diagrams and through diligent research, discovered a few routes he completely missed out of his otherwise excellent plans.

 

The sidings themselves are a transfer point and storage area for some off scene industries similar to those found in either Ferry Road, or the coal depot at Virgil Street in the Grangetown area.

 

The timescale is currently 1958-62 which allows both steam and diesel locos to operate.

 

So far. I've convinced myself, and a few others, that the place really existed!

 

The locos are all, or will be, allocated to sheds in the area.

 

Funnily enough, according to various references, quite a few of them have at one time been, or will be allocated to Tondu..................it's a small world!

 

Please just keep up the good work here.

[The Johnster]

This is good advice and much appreciated, Richard.  The issue with 6408 is not so much about the presence of the loco at Tondu as it is about the early 60s time frame of 64xx at Tondu for the Porthcawl trains, and I can't reconcile this with the rest of my stock.  This may not be a consistent approach, as I'm happy with the inaccurate Hornby 2761, withdrawn March 1950, running with 8448, new to the shed 4 years and 2 months later.  The chronological disparity between these 2 locos is considerably less than that between 8448's withdrawal in August 1959 and the arrival of 64xx at Tondu less than 2 years afterwards.

 

But the general ambience of Cwmdimbath is an early 50s sort of vibe, and the period is 1948-58, so a central point of 1953.  Lined maroon coaches and ferret and dartboard locos are pushing things a bit.  6408 was in lined green ferret and dartboard livery during her time at Tondu.

 

So, she's withdrawn from service for making me uncomfortable.  I've tried her chassis beneath 2761 because it's a better runner than the generic Hornby 0-6-0 that trundles that loco around, sometimes rather jerkily, but the motor is too fat.  It may serve beneath 5756, whose Replica/early Bachmann chassis in not as good as this either, but will need to be chopped a bit to fit at the rear.  The obvious move following that to put the Rep/Baccy split chassis under 2761 will not fly, as the blocks will not fit in front of 2761's backhead.  

 

5756 is up for replacement if I can source a modern Baccy 8750 from 'Bay at a price I'm willing to pay, as she is actually the body of one of the first release of Mainline 57xx with a K's whitemetal kit 8750 cab; this has no coal bars or bunker rear hooks and is really not up to the mark.  A replacement will of course have modern Baccy chassis and mech, so perhaps it's not worth messing with the current version of 5756.

[The Johnster]

I've settled the 8750 debate; bought one off 'Bay for £50.  8763 in lined black, but it may not stay in that state for very long!  I'll put 6408 and the current 9681 back together and give them occasional outings; I could be starting to build a reserve stud by the time I've replaced my Limbach 94xx and antediluvian 5101.

 

I'll probably use 9681's numbers on the 'new secondhand' pannier, which will be a better runner and carry more detail.  The old one does not have coal bars on the rear cab windows, or bunker hooks, and the new one will have better buffers, and is not really up to scratch, though it was pretty good when it was new!  It has a late Replica/early Bachmann split chassis.  What else doesn't quite cut the modern mustard; well 2761 for a start, a hopeless case though I might be able to do something about the running, adequate at best, with a Baccy Jinty chassis.  She is dimensionally incorrect, but I rather like her; I've worked her up a bit and she has plenty of character.  6642 could do with a current body moulding which would feature cab detail and front step handrails, and the Limbach 94xx and Airfix 5101 are what they are, but will have to do for now until Baccy and Dapol provide better replacements.  To be honest, a 5101 is not the highest priority, and I'm not sure what Tondu did with them; perhaps they were a reserve for 3100 which was the regular loco on the through Porthcawl-Cardiff commuter train because of it's no.4 boiler and 5'3" wheels, which enabled it to get away very quickly from the stops on the main line and keep itself out of the way of the fast stuff.

 

Not sure what Tondu did with it's various 45xx small prairies either; it had 44xx for the Porthcawl branch which had such vicious curves that the locos had to be turned weekly to even out flange wear.  Other classes were severely speed restricted on the branch.

Edited September 28, 2018 by The Johnster

[tomparryharry]

I've settled the 8750 debate; bought one off 'Bay for £50.  8763 in lined black, but it may not stay in that state for very long!  I'll put 6408 and the current 9681 back together and give them occasional outings; I could be starting to build a reserve stud by the time I've replaced my Limbach 94xx and antediluvian 5101.

 

I'll probably use 9681's numbers on the 'new secondhand' pannier, which will be a better runner and carry more detail.  The old one does not have coal bars on the rear cab windows, or bunker hooks, and the new one will have better buffers, and is not really up to scratch, though it was pretty good when it was new!  It has a late Replica/early Bachmann split chassis.  What else doesn't quite cut the modern mustard; well 2761 for a start, a hopeless case though I might be able to do something about the running, adequate at best, with a Baccy Jinty chassis.  She is dimensionally incorrect, but I rather like her; I've worked her up a bit and she has plenty of character.  6642 could do with a current body moulding which would feature cab detail and front step handrails, and the Limbach 94xx and Airfix 5101 are what they are, but will have to do for now until Baccy and Dapol provide better replacements.  To be honest, a 5101 is not the highest priority, and I'm not sure what Tondu did with them; perhaps they were a reserve for 3100 which was the regular loco on the through Porthcawl-Cardiff commuter train because of it's no.4 boiler and 5'3" wheels, which enabled it to get away very quickly from the stops on the main line and keep itself out of the way of the fast stuff.

 

Not sure what Tondu did with it's various 45xx small prairies either; it had 44xx for the Porthcawl branch which had such vicious curves that the locos had to be turned weekly to even out flange wear.  Other classes were severely speed restricted on the branch.

At this rate, I can foresee you building Tondu shed.... You know you want to....

[The Johnster]

At this rate, I can foresee you building Tondu shed.... You know you want to....

 

Go to your room, young tomparryharry, and stay there until you have had a serious think about what you've just done!

 

Roundhouse shed in low relief with loco-sized traverser inside, and those lovely black ventilators yard modelled, station down another wall, constant action in goods yard with 08s in black livery, coal trains vying for paths across the junction, 44xx, 31xx.  I need to take the advice of an ex girlfriends ex headmistress, who, in a lecture about morality in assembly one morning told the girls that 'if they have those sort of thoughts, take yourself firmly in hand'...  

 

She also told them that a half hour of pleasure was not worth a lifetime of shame, and a girl at the back put her hand up to ask 'please, miss, how do you make it last half an hour'?

 

You can't write this stuff...

[The Johnster]

I made a list of Tondu's longest staying residents during my period from BR Database's information, and it does look as if some further renumbering would be a good idea.  Particularly noticeable are 4218, from Dec 1945 to withdrawal Oct 62, a much better bet than 4214 which may have been at the shed for the first month of 1948 though I cannot confirm this (my current definition of confirmation in this matter being cross checking between BRD and RailUK), but did not return during my period and it is very unlikely that it carried my BR unicycling lion black by then, and 8748, Dec '45 to Sept 62 for transfer away.  This could replace 5756, but probably not as I have photographic evidence of 5756 at Abergwynfi hauling 3 auto trailers.

 

9749 is probably a better bet than 9681; new to Tondu in June '46 and away to Merthyr in Nov '63.  8497 is a longer stayer than 8448, though that loco spent it's entire working life at the shed. 8497 came in from Ebbw Jc Jan '53 until June '60 when she left for Canton; makes sense to make this the new Bachmann when it arrives and keep 8448 as a spare.  5555 would be better than 4581, at Tondu from Oct 53 until Oct '60 when it left for Machynlleth, except for Oct '55 when it is supposed to have been at Neyland.  I personally doubt it ever went west of Pyle, and that this was a paper transfer.

 

No 56xx or 5101 seem to have stayed for a particularly long time, so the ones I've got may as well stay as they are.  5101s did not arrive until 1957, the very end of my period, but 4145 was there very briefly at the beginning (if at all); I can probably dispense with them altogether!  The only other candidate is 4557, which seems to have been allocated before 1945 as it is not mentioned except as a 1948 resident by RailUK, according to BRD arriving at Neyland in Oct '53, the only reference I can find to a 45xx at Tondu.  She'd look good on the pick up or with the B set!

Edited September 28, 2018 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Had an afternoon of a type of operating I call 'potching about between trains', a sort of half operating half modelling session in which you run a train, do a bit of something else, go away and have a cup of tea while the paint or glue goes off, and then come back, do a shunting movement or two, and repeat the process.

 

It is surprising how much you can achieve without particularly having planned it or realising it in this way.  I've re-instated an ancient Mainline bogie bolster, fitting new wheels and couplings; I think that's the last of the plastic wheeled freight stock.  It also got new wire stanchions, the old plastic ones being as the snows of yesteryear.  It runs very smoothly indeed on Bachmann metal wheels, which are brass I think.  I've prepped a Hornby A28/30 auto trailer for numbering, and stripped the lining off my Bachmann A38 one to convert it to plain maroon 1956 livery.  It will need a bit of touching up where I've scratched it, and I possess no maroon paint at the moment, so that's a reason to go model shop shopping in the week...

 

6408 has now been officially withdrawn from service, as she is not suitable for my period.  Her chassis has replaced the early Baccy split one beneath 9681, itself scheduled for replacement by the 8750 on order from 'Bay.  I have not decided what to do with this loco in the long term yet; she could be worked up into something not too bad if I can source etched coal rails for the rear cab windows and bunker hoops, but she seems not worth spending too much time and effort on with the new girl on the way.  Her chassis is not correct and she has no backhead, but I've cheated by closing the sliding shutters in the cab door reveals and putting crew in the way; the chassis anomaly is no worse than 8448's and a lot better than 2761's.  She runs very well and smoothly on 6408's gubbins.  This would result in 9681 retaining it's identity and the new girl being presented as 9749, in G W R initials livery, but I'm not sure yet as to whether green or black for a loco built in June 1946.  

 

Not a bad afternoon, and I feel that work has been accomplished and things are moving forward.

[tomparryharry]

Hello Johnster, what is the parentage of 6408?

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[The Johnster]

She's a stock RTR Baccy, in BR black unicycling lion, originally 6422 IIRC but with Modelmaster number plates which I've 'red backed'.  She's lost her plastic coal, and now has a few lumps in a nearly empty bunker, and has been mangled about to include my no.13 staples as lamp irons, and I've drilled holes in her to accept these.  Her chassis has been 'redeployed' under 9681, where it's replacing my last Mainline type split chassis, and she's sustained a bit of a bend in her right hand handrail.  There's glue mess where there shouldn't be all over her!  She is certainly not in any condition to be put on 'Bay, even if I could be bothered with that which I can't.  You're welcome to the mortal remains of her body if they are of any use to you; it'll be a fair exchange for the 94xx bodies you gave me; PM if you are interested!

Edited October 1, 2018 by The Johnster