South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[The Johnster]

Helps a lot, Steve; many thanks.  This puts Pacific back on track in a big way; the only one of my stud that was withdrawn before 1955 is 2761, which never carried a smokebox number anyway.  This means that the sheets are very definitely worth investing in, as all my locos should be covered and so should any future purchases, but It may mean that either 8448 goes without a white painted smokebox number for now or the Bachmann 94xx, if it appears before I have shuffle off this mortal coil and gone where you don't have to wait for RTR releases, gets a different number as I assume there is only one of each number on each sheet!

 

Pacific definitely looks like the way to go on this, and I think it makes a huge difference to the 'face' of a WR loco, so is definitely worth doing.  I reckon I can do all 8 of the locos I currently have in service for less than £25; bargain in my book!

[31A]

This means that the sheets are very definitely worth investing in, as all my locos should be covered and so should any future purchases, but It may mean that either 8448 goes without a white painted smokebox number for now or the Bachmann 94xx, if it appears before I have shuffle off this mortal coil and gone where you don't have to wait for RTR releases, gets a different number as I assume there is only one of each number on each sheet!

 

 

 

Yes, only one of each number on the sheets I've got.

[The Johnster]

Yes, only one of each number on the sheets I've got.

 

8448 apart, I only want one of each, of course, and it could be a good excuse to keep the Limbach 8448 in service when the new Baccy comes out.  It's not a bad model; I chose this number as the prototype was delivered new to Tondu in June 54 (not 55) and withdrawn from the shed just over 4 years later; the most purely Tondu of Tondu's locomotives!  

 

Thank you again for your very informative help with this, Steve.

[The Johnster]

The lunchtime miner's has just squealed to a stop at Cwmdimbath behind 9681, showing off one of the new clerestories, not numbered yet but to be 5017 like the old Triang model it is derived from.  It's 1950 by now, but the brake 3rd is still in pre-1942 colours, and the all-second, now downgraded, is in 1942 austerity brown.  Both coaches are filthy, not being Tondu carriage sidings' top cleaning priortity, and even the windows are pretty mucky on the brown coach.  Note my esrsatz Dean bogies,  B1s with footboards glued on.  These are coffee stirrers cut in half lengthways and then cut to bogie length.  Given the fundamental inaccuracies of these coaches, I can live with them, but may replace them with proper length Deans one day.

 

The brown coach is caught by the cameraman on the bridge a few minutes earlier as well.  Future plans for carriage stock will expand on this GW late 40s theme by including a B set in very early 1948 livery, choc/cream with BR Gill Sans numbers.  Pushing Rule 1 a bit, but it captures the zeitgiest of the times...

 

The other brown Dean, brake 3rd, is not in service yet as I need buffers for it, and will replace all the buffers on the other two at the same time so that they match.  Think I've sourced some from P.D.Marsh, but might be able to do better than this if I can find proper Dean ones (Hornby don't list them as spares).

[timbowilts]

Johnster, for Dean coach buffers try Dart Castings, that where I got mine

 

Tim T

Modelling Cwm Cynon in EM

[The Johnster]

Johnster, for Dean coach buffers try Dart Castings, that where I got mine

 

Tim T

Modelling Cwm Cynon in EM

 

Thanks for the tip, Tim!

[The Johnster]

No work today, we are debauching, but the miner's train photos seem to have attracted some approbation.  I am pleased with the 'heavily weathered' look of this, very typical of the war worn and destitute late 1940s (ever seen 'Passport to Pimlico'?) and something I recall as still being perceptible during my own 1950s childhood.  Everything was dirty, worn out, broken down and lashed up to keep it working, including (in fact especially) the railway, especially away from the glamour of the main lines, and where renewals had been done they were painted in the only colours available, navy grey, army green, or air force blue from the surplus distributors.  My own middle class street of about 60 early Edwardian front and back garden terraces in 1960 had almost all of it's wooden sash window frames in the same army green, not a community planning decision but all you could get.  One house had a nice gloss maroon.  Plasterwork was universally cream/off white, and doors matched the window frames.  

 

Conform or die; the 1960s hit like a hurricane!

[The Johnster]

Thanks for the tip, Tim!

 

MJT castings, on Dart Castings website and just the thing I'm looking for, Tim; sadly out of stock for the moment but nil desperandum, I'll keep an eye on the site occasionally in case I can't source an alternative!  Thanks again!

[The Johnster]

Good news; Cardiff Antics is to be relocated to the old Army and Navy surplus store, Bailey's, in the Wyndham Arcade.  This is the one that runs between St Mary Street and Mill Lane, parallel to Caroline Street (chip alley).  My supply of materials, tools and glues/paints without a 2 bus journey is assured!

 

Haven't done any modelling as such for over a week, though I have been operating, but I'm intending to have a crack at refurbishing some signals later, and incorporating different arms that are required, such as the circle on the board that is correct for the loop starter, as it reads from a loop or siding to a running line.  A couple of ground signals are needed. as well as calling on arms for the splitting home the other side of the Remploy road bridge; this might need new dolls on that signal.  i have a Ratio Bracket kit that should provide all the necessary, but might have to make my own calling on arms.

[The Johnster]

I've cobbled up a splitting home bracket signal from the bits in the Ratio box; it's a long way off perfect but will do for now.  It is imagined to have a pair of ground disc signals at it's foot, and I've abandoned the calling on boards until further notice.  It has a smaller arm to read to the loop road.  

 

That apart, I haven't done much in the way of modelling but plenty of operating.  Despite having blown the budget on locos buying secondhand 56xx and panniers this year, I am thinking about a 45xx.  Rail UK shows one, 4557 allocated to Tondu in 1948, which is not mentioned on the BR Database site, so it must have been there from before 1939 when their information picks up the story.  But for how long?  It went to Neyland in 10/53, and spent the rest of it's life there, but I would be making a bit of an assumption in stating that it was at Tondu from 1948 to 1953; I've come unstuck with this sort of thing before.  If anyone can shed any light on it's whereabouts between 1st Jan 1948 and 31st Oct 1953 I'd be grateful!

 

I can't think what 86F would have used this loco for, unless it was a reserve to the 44xx for the Porthcawl branch.  I would envisage using it on 57xx work; pickup, workman's, and such, which would release 5633, currently working in the coal industry, for the odd passenger turn. The resuscitation of 6602 should be a priority as well.  The attraction is that I like locos with outside cylinders, and since the realisation that 4145 is pushing it a bit and I cannot justify replacing it with a Dapol when that's available, because it was only at the shed for the first 3 months of 1948, the only outside cylinder beast is 4218.  The next large prairie apart from 3100, which was the Porthcawl-Cardiff engine and not really suitable for Cwmdimbath, was 4144 which turned up for the last 3 months of 1958, pushing the end of my period as much as 4145 was pushing the beginning, so large prairies are a busted flush on this layout!  I might yet have a go at 3100 on 4145's old Airfix chassis one day, but it's still a long way down the 'to do' list.  Maybe what I really need is another 42xx... 

 

I'm also starting to consider how much work and cost would be involved in relaying with bullhead code 75.  It would be worth it for the improved appearance; a drawback is that I am using some code 100 setrack in the fiddle yard which depends on a 3rd-4th radius curved point to squeeze the roads in, and I will have to work out a way of circumventing the difference in height.   And it would be goodbye to my dead frogs, and hello to a wiring job.  I suspect it may prove to be impractical once the costing out is done to include the relays and switching, but needs to be at least looked at as a possibility.  Trouble is that I can convince myself that my code 100 streamline doesn't look too bad bedded in and painted, then I go to a show and see chaired track and get all unhappy again...

 

If I'm being sensible and looking at things holistically, though, the next money really needs to be allocated to passenger rolling stock, a bit of a weak link as things stand.  Another B set, in late GW livery, and then we need to be checking out Comet or whatever for kits; I really need some nod in the direction of GW non gangwayed coaches other than B sets, especially as I do not really know if there were any B sets at Tondu in my period; they don't appear in photos!  An A44 auto trailer is needed; I'd thought at one time that these were associated with the 64xx and the Porthcawl branch but there is one in a photo of 5756 hauling 3 auto trailers at Abergwynfi in what must be the mid 50s, and suitable for my period.  A GW liveried A28/30 would be useful as well, and easily obtained!

[Northmoor]

Rail UK shows one, 4557 allocated to Tondu in 1948, which is not mentioned on the BR Database site, so it must have been there from before 1939 when their information picks up the story.  But for how long?  It went to Neyland in 10/53, and spent the rest of it's life there, but I would be making a bit of an assumption in stating that it was at Tondu from 1948 to 1953; I've come unstuck with this sort of thing before.  If anyone can shed any light on it's whereabouts between 1st Jan 1948 and 31st Oct 1953 I'd be grateful!

I don't know if the Modelmaster publication take it's info from the same source as the BR Database, but it has 4557 at TDU/86F in 1948/52.

[The Johnster]

Many thanks for this, Northmoor, just what I was looking for.  If the loco was at 86F from 48-52, it is reasonable to assume that the missing period before she went to Neyland in October '53 may have been due to an overhaul and repaint, which suggests a GW livery prior to '52 when she left Tondu.  She may have been elsewhere in the meantime of course, but I am now leaning towards a late GW livery for her on Cwmdimbath.  On the assumption that a loco has a heavy overhaul when the boiler ticket runs out after 7 years (with the applied for extension) this puts her last overhaul in 1945, so unlined green G W R initials with a nod to BR in the form of a smokebox number plate and shedcode plate, with probably red backed number plates, would probably be appropriate. 

 

We have a plan!  

[Ian Smeeton]

I had a look at the Shedbash blog, and found 4557 on shed at Whitland with an 87H allocation in September '54, no other listing before that.

 

Not much help, I know, but thought you would like to know, you know!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

Thanks Ian; there is no such thing as too much information!  My understanding now is that 4557 was at Tondu at nationalisation in 1948 (Rail UK), probably before this as well, and left in October 1953 (BR Database).  It was transferred to Whitland where it remained until withdrawal in September 1962; it must have had an overhaul during this time as 9 years would take it 2 years over it's boiler ticket even if it went to Whitland direct from an overhaul.  It was certainly used on the Cardigan branch at Whitland, probably other work as well.

 

It's livery at Tondu during my period is conjecture; it would almost certainly have been in plain unlined green with G W R initials at nationalisation, and may possibly have had an overhaul to include a repaint into one of the BR transition liveries depending on the date; unlined green with 1920s style GW Egyptian Serif 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' if it was repainted between 1/1/48 and 31/5/48, unlined black (or possibly lined mixed traffic black; I'd love confirmation of this!) with Gill Sans 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' between 1/6/48 and 30/3/49, then unicycling lion, with a variety of combinations of black backed or red backed number plates, smokebox number plates, and shedcode plates.  I have no photographic or other reference to the loco at this period beyond what is mentioned in the Rail UK and BR Database entries, and indeed have only seen photos (by which I mean one photo) of it on the Cardigan branch in unlined black unicycling lion with black backed number plates.  

 

So I'm relying on guesswork and assumption to some extent, and hopefully minimising the risk of getting it wrong by going for what I reckon to be the most likely livery.  A loco in G W R livery post nationalisation would fairly rapidly be fitted at the shed with shedcode plates and smokebox number plates; the red backing for number plates would be applied at the shed as well and would not need a works visit and a run through the paintshop.

 

AFAIK or can ascertain, it is the only 45xx ever allocated to Tondu, which had auto fitted 4575s at a later period (I have 5555 modelled) and 2 44xx specifically to work the very tightly curved Porthcawl branch's pickup freight trains.  These locos were turned weekly to even out flange wear; the tightest curves were all in the same direction...

 

5555's history as delineated on BR Database shows the risk of making assumptions, though; it is shown as leaving Tondu for Neyland on 3/10/55 only to return on 8/10/55.  It seems unlikely that the loco ever left Tondu.  It in fact became the 4575 that spent the longest time at Tondu in total and this is why I chose it as the prototype for my model, plus photographic evidence of it at Abergwynfi in unlined black unicycling lion.

Edited November 18, 2018 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

There is a Bachmann 4557 up for grabs on 'Bay Buy It Now, in lined black unicycling lion livery.  It is very unlikely that the loco carried this livery at Tondu, but if I can find out that it did, even for a short period, I'll try and buy it!  I want a loco in this livery but can't confirm any Tondu loco ever carrying it.  Does anyone know if there is a website which would show the dates of a a loco's works visits, or a works one listing locos dealt with and dates.  If, for example, I can confirm that the loco was outshopped from Swindon or Caerphilly any time from mid 1949 toas late as even early '52, that would suggest very strongly that 4557 carried lined black livery while in service at Tondu.  If the model carries an 86F shed plate, that's a confirmation and a bonus, but I'd prefer to know before spending the money!

 

It might even have had red backed number plates...

[The Johnster]

Found a photo on Google Images of 4557 at Whitland, apparently shorly before withdrawal in 1962.  Good colour photo; sadly the loco is in a particularly dreadful external state and it is not possible to see what crest it is carrying, never mind what livery or if it's lined!  

 

But as I said, all information is useful and things can be inferred.  The livery is probably not post 1956, as I would expect some trace of such a livery to be apparent in 1962 no matter how badly the loco had been externally neglected.  This in turn suggests that the loco's lined black livery must have been applied quite late in the day for that livery, and is possibly still being carried in the photograph, which in turn is circumstantial evidence against the idea of it carrying lined black at Tondu.  

 

I'm tempted to buy the loco anyway; the price being asked is not unreasonable, and repaint into a different livery if more evidence comes to light.  My experience in these matters suggests that a sure way to prove that you have a loco in the wrong livery is to buy it...

Edited November 24, 2018 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Further thought; if we apply the 7 year boiler certificate rule to a loco about to be withdrawn within a few months in 1962, then even if she spent some time in store (there's no evidence at all for this) the livery she is carrying beneath the filth cannot have been applied earlier than late 1954 and is probably later.  This suggests, if it suggests anything, that it is not lined black, as there cannot have been many locos painted in that by 1954; plain black had become the 'norm'.  It is difficult to date lined black on ex-GW locos generally, but it seems to have been confined to the very early BR period for mixed traffic engines.  BR (W) certainly regarded the small prairies as mixed traffic engines, giving them the power classification of 4MT (amazing for a loco this size, the broadly similar small Ivatts were 2MT).  But by the mid 50s my impression is that the lined black livery was out of favour and, if it wasn't in lined green as a passenger loco, Swindon and Caerphilly painted it black, not that they weren't averse to polishing copper chimney caps and brass safety valve covers to emphasise their GWR heritage.

 

This suggests the opposite of the previous suggestion, that the loco was overhauled and might have been painted in lined black sometime between 1948 an 1952 when she was at Tondu.  Only suggests, of course, not confirms; she was at Whitland by mid 1952 and could have been overhauled and painted in lined black then or '53.  But the livery seems to become less, not more, likely with the passage of time.  

 

Things change in 1956, when lined green began to be applied to more or less any WR locomotive that might see the sky over a passenger train (slight exaggeration) and an 'MT' power classification was a passport to this.  To the best of my knowledge, which is incomplete, no ex GWR loco was turned out on the WR in lined black after this, and not too many BR standards!  The region seems not to have liked the livery, many of those in positions to make such decisions having long memories and still regarding the LNWR as a competitor.  Perhaps some at Crewe felt the same about painting Coronations and Royal Scots in lined green...

 

So, a lined black ex GW loco says early 1950s pretty loudly and clearly.  There was no revival of it in later years, though 'economy' unlined green turned up in the late 50s and early 60s.

 

There's a third possibility of course, that the loco carried G W R unlined green until the mid 50s at Whitland.  

 

I am fully aware of the concept that I might be trying to delude/convince myself to include a livery I badly want on my layout, and Rule 1 is not enough on it's own to persuade me.  But, assuming that Bachmann have not got it horribly wrong in a way that they don't as a rule, the loco carried a lined black livery applied some time between mid 1949 and mid 1956, and my impression is that this would have been earlier rather than later in this time frame.  That's pretty much enough to delude/convince me to part with my cash for a loco I want in some livery or other anyway; I know she was at Tondu for the 4 and a half years between nationalisation and mid 1952, probably as the Porthcawl spare, and have work for her on Cwmdimbath in the 57xx link.  She has a little more range than a 57xx, and is just the job for my ROF workman's and the Remploy parcels.  8448 is struggling a bit for traction on loaded coal work and the released 56xx would be better employed as spare for that. 

 

Not that much of this is of any real interest to youse guys; thank you for your forbearance in allowing me to set my thoughts out and attempt, despite failing, to rationalise them!

Edited November 24, 2018 by The Johnster

[Northmoor]

If you don't already refer to this source, it might be useful....

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948.html

[The Johnster]

Good source for general information, but there were plenty of exceptions to the rules as suggested here.  For example, the Paddington station pilots, 8750s and later 15xx, were turned out in lined black, as were some 56xx but not all; in fact most of these mixed traffic engines were painted unlined black in the pre-1956 period.  Some Saints were in lined black despite being pure (4P rated) passenger engines.  

 

And the first 2 BR liveries are not mentioned at all except to say that 'some large prairies were in unlined green'.  The original instruction, in force until the end of May 1948 from 1st January, was to continue as before but indicate the new ownership; the WR interpreted this as branding locos 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in 1920s style GW Egyptian Serif lettering; both unlined green and unlined black could be found.  This was followed by the new liveries and 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in Gill Sans, which lasted until the end of April 1949 when the first symbol, the unicycling lion, became available.  So all 3 of these liveries and plain green and plain black (austerity) G W R liveried engines could be seen until the mid 50s at least and later in some cases, including Caerphilly Works' own version of austerity which had the G W R in 'grotesque' script, actually something fairly similar in appearance to Gill Sans but smaller lettering than the Egyptian Serif initiials.

[The Johnster]

4557 has been ordered from 'Bay; should be here by the weekend or just after.  Also ordered, brass number plates for it from MMJE.  Won't be doing much to it; as we've seen I'm winging it a bit in terms of the livery and it can stay in lined black unicycling lion unless I can find out that it definitely didn't carry this livery at Tondu, and as it would have more likely been later in it's Tondu residence that it carried the livery if it did, I won't be altering the number plates to red backed.  The new girl will tick a livery box left empty since the withdrawal of 4166.

 

Don't know until it arrives what shed code the loco is carrying, though; I'll change it to 86F if it's carrying Whitland plates.  It is probably a better bet on the ROF workman's than a pannier, with it's slightly greater water capacity, and in any case I like locos with outside cylinders.

 

Now, I know you've all heard this before, but this time I really am not going to buy any more locomotives until the Baccy 94xx comes out.  I have enough to work the service allowing for a prototypical 48 hour boiler washout every 10 working days for each of them, except that there is no backup or spare for my auto fitted 4575, 5555, which means that sometimes the auto service will be conventionally hauled and run around; this seems to have actually happened fairly often on the Abergwynfi branch if the photos are anything to go by.  Perhaps Tondu had a shortage of auto fitted locos to cover the work!

 

I will, however, be on the lookout for a new 56xx body for 6602, currently out of use pending a soldering job on it's motor connections; this will bring it up to current standards with regard to lamp irons, cab detail, and some handrails.  This is not urgent and the loco can run with it's antediluvian Mainline body for now; it has a current spec chassis after the original Mainline split one was discovered a year or so ago to be wearing through at the axle guides, a problem that had killed off the original chassis that was beneath the loco that is now 9681.  I seized on the opportunity of this secondhand 56xx chassis in my local model shop, Lord and Butler.

 

But the policy will now be to not buy more locomotives unless an absolutely unmissable bargain presents itself, and the Dimbath Valley Railway's procurement division will be concentrating on upgrading and expanding the passenger stock, and remain on the lookout for ex GW 5-plankers.  We are ok for brake vans and minerals, but a late GW liveried B set would be good despite my not being aware of any B set working out of Tondu.  What I really need to be concentrating on is kits, Comet, non-gangwayed Colletts, for the building of, and both A44 (compartment) and pre A28 auto trailers, especially diagram N which I know worked in the area.  

 

The modelling of stock is therefore moving into another phase, that of kit building as the available RTR 'runs out'.  Along with this will be some of the other long term improvement plans.  I am happy enough with my cut and shut NER Hornby RTP station building, but the platform is a weak link and another shot at the signal box would not be the worst Idea I'd ever had.  And I'm toying with the idea of relaying the scenic area with Peco code 75 bullhead; if I do this, I'll put something a bit less basic in the way of wiring and control panel.  The mountain is a work in progress, and I need to finish the Remploy factory and do something with the 'town' end of the layout, which is a bit of a non-event at the moment.

 

This moment of planning provokes one of general reflection.  The original plan has been diverted from in some ways, as the increase in loco and stock prices has persuaded me to concentrate on buying those while I can still afford them to the detriment of other plans, and it is time to begin to redress the balance.  But the layout is much more finished and progress has been much better than I reckoned at the beginning, and there have been setbacks overcome, but no real disasters.  Cwmdimbath is a success; it is doing what I planned for it, with a good level of reliability and running quality.  

 

I am reasonably happy that I am starting to capture some of the 'feel' and atmosphere of a mining valley in the 1950s and it's railway.  My original concept of a simple railway that I could get to a level of operational and visual completion in a reasonable time at a low cost within my budget and limited ability has been borne out, though I blew the loco budget long ago and have gone a bit nuts on that side of things this year!  That said, I have not paid full price for any of my locos; most are secondhand but current spec and those that were brand new were discounted.

Edited November 28, 2018 by The Johnster

[chrisf]

I've got news for you.  The new Hugh Longworth book has as complete a list of B set allocations as I have ever seen.  It raises a few eyebrows, such as a Barry No. 1, but it also lists three Tondu allocations.  I would have expected any B sets out of Tondu to be Newport Division but as we know the GWR/WR moved in mysterious ways.

 

For the record, all three Tondu sets were E147s:

 

6741+6743 Tondu No. 1, later Dowlais No.1

6745+6746 Tondu No. 2

6748+6749 Tondu No. 3, later Dowlais No.2 

 

No dates are given other than when the coaches were built and withdrawn, so be careful.  Certainly towards the end the sets used on Nelson - Cae Harris were pairs of brake seconds and you will know better than I how long first class accommodation lasted on the Llynfi/Garw/Ogmore Valleys network.

 

Chris

[The Johnster]

Thank you very much for this information, Chris, solid gold as always from you.  I believe 1st class in the Bridgend valleys lasted until the introduction of auto services with the arrival of auto fitted 4575s in late 1955, but I may be winging it a bit with this assumption as I believe the use of auto trailers in the area predated this, with non-auto fitted locos.  It may have lasted until the end of the ROF workman's services.

 

I am already reconsidering my future plans in the light of this information.  There is obviously no point in acquiring any more Airfix derived E140 generics, as I need E147s, flat ended with 9' bogies.  These are of necessity kit builds, and my existing antediluvian Airfix set worked up in crimson livery, will have to do for now.  It will eventually be withdrawn from service when E147s are built, and the bogies may well turn up under modified A28/30 auto trailers to represent ersatz A27s.

 

Much of my information about coaches in the area is gleaned from google images photos of the area, mostly the Abergwynfi branch.  No B sets appear in any of these, but various auto trailers and other Collett non-gangwayed do.  So actual documented information of this sort is very useful indeed!  

 

It is, of course, not really correct to describe these as B sets in the Newport Division; this was a Bristol term AFAIK and a real South Wales railwayman in the '50s would not have known what you were on about, but it is a very convenient term for modelling usage and everybody here knows what we are talking about.

 

But, wouldn't it be wonderful if somebody would introduce a range of non compartment GWR stock comparable to that already available for LMS, LNER, and BR standard modellers.  Fat chance!  It'll take me quite a while to build the Comets, and I think I need two B sets, one in crimson and one in late BR livery.  Priority should probably be given to other non-gangwayed Comets, though, and I'll need an A44 auto trailer as well.  On the plus side, I'll enjoy building and finishing the kits; proper modelling!

[The Johnster]

The postman has turned up this morning with 4557, and I'm very pleased with her.  She looks brand new and never used to my cursory initial inspection, with the vacuum pipes and bags still in the box and never fitted.  Running is excellent in both directions, and virtually silent, perhaps not as silky as my 4575, but that has been well run in.  The loco sports a Neyland shed code, which is no more than I expected, though it leaves my basic livery query unanswered for now.

 

I'm off out after brekkie to do my other thing I do on Saturdays, but will give the new girl a thorough seeing to later.  Then I'll fully test 4557.  Don't plan on doing much to this one beyond adding crew, the already ordered etched number plates, Tondu shed code plate, and maybe a coat of very light weathering; if it did appear at Tondu in this livery it would have not been long before the transfer to Darkest Dyfed and I feel justified in keeping her clean.

[Miss Prism]

For the record, all three Tondu sets were E147s:

6741+6743 Tondu No. 1, later Dowlais No.1

6745+6746 Tondu No. 2

6748+6749 Tondu No. 3, later Dowlais No.2

 

Presumably, these hitherto E147 'singles' kept their conventional buffers and drawgear on their inner ends?

[The Johnster]

AFAIK, which is not that much in this case, these E147 flat enders were fitted with standard couplings and drawgear on the 'inner', non brake ends, unlike the bowenders which were close, semi-permanently, coupled, and were not given lamp irons at that end.  This meant that they could be easily split if needed and used in non-B set work and formations, and I have seen photos of them in use as single vehicles on West Country branches very late in the BR steam period.  

 

But they are not ideal for this, having only one first class compartment; this means that either no non smoking or only non smoking accommodation is available for first class passengers.  When marshalled as a B set, one coach was smoking and one not in the first class compartments.  The 'normal', non-B set, brake composites had 2 first class compartments, one smoker and one non, but of course the down side was that the luggage/guard's compartment was bigger and there was hence less second class space for passengers.  Tom of this parish has some of these on Cwm Prysor.

 

Once split, of course, they might appear in multiple coach formations that got around this problem.  But it is best IMHO to assume that branded sets were kept in their formations unless you have definitive information to the contrary.  

Edited December 1, 2018 by The Johnster