Shez's workbench

[Shez]

 With my daughters wedding, lots of other family commitments, and a trip to Ally Pally with Jamie's big trainset, opportunities to get anywhere near the workbench have been few and far between, and this pattern is likely to continue for the rest of the month. However here is a quick update.

 

First the Pickersgill. There has been some more progress on the tender body. The body came in two parts which had to be soldered together and then curved at both the front and back ends. However the instructions explain that that before this is done 4mm has to be removed from one end. I wonder if this was an etching error in the original kit or the tender was originally designed for another locomotive?  I noticed on the Alba models website that the kit is currently unavailable for some redesign work. It was then take a deep breath, and form the front and back bends. Again I used rod from my spares box and formed the curves in the same way as the NBR tank. 7mm bar for the rear 10mm for the front. 

 

 

The next job was to form the flares ( Surprisingly straightforward) and the add the corners.A challenge to bend and fit and somewhat undersized. I therefore flooded the gaps around them with copious amounts of 145 and got to work with the file. It took me a whole afternoon of filing and checking, but I am pleased with the end result. I seem to actually enjoy these frustrating bits of construction!

 

I also managed to get some painting done, with the NBR tank now in its coat of primer. The observant among you will notice I managed to knock the whistle off in the process, so a minor repair is needed! Behind it is one of the NBR six wheelers I sprayed  in the same session so I will update that thread as well.

 

 

Off to Scotland for a week, but hope to be at York show Easter Monday if anyone wants to say hello

 

 

 

 

[Shez]

It seems ages since I have managed a post as family and other stuff has largely kept me away from the workbench for the last month. I have managed some short sessions, and the tender for the Caley Pickersgill is complete enough for me to move on to the loco and its chassis. However this piecemeal approach can lead to pitfalls as you will discover as you read on!

 

 

Having got the tender body bent to shape and added the coal plate it was time to add the detail at the front of the tender. At this point it was clear something was not quite right. The tender floor had a gap at the back and the lockers were about a millimeter short of where they should be. Clearly something was up - at some point I had either got the front curves slightly wrong and had the coal plate too far back. I have often commented on how brass soldered construction gives you a get out of gaol card - just de solder and start again. However in this case I decided that preserving a correct overall look to the outside of the  tender was better than potential damage to parts by some drastic taking apart. I think the problem may have arisen from not having a drawing of the tender from above, and due to my recent bitty sessions, not spotting the mistake quickly enough. Here is the offending view- I fully expect it to be towed away by the CRASSOC tender police, clamped, and placed in a crock siding!

 

 

The next job was to add the beading around the top using sections of half round wire, held in position with mini clothes pegs to be soldered, and then blended together using a file. Other details and castings were then added. I also used some scrap etch to make a new floor for the front of the tender. So that is where we are. Not my finest effort by any means, but all part of the continuous learning curve. On to the chassis today and this week, before another interruption with the small matter of HTFC at Wembley for the play off final. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Shez

[Shez]

Thanks for all the supportive likes.

 

One thing I have been unable to work out as its not mentioned in the instructions, and there seems to be no parts, is the fall plate between the loco and tender. Unless CR firemen had the Olympic qualifying standard in long jump there must be one. I have studied photos but can't work out its size or if its attached to the loco or the tender. Can anyone help on this?

[Shez]

Following the struggle with the tender I decided to push on with the locomotive. I took two decisions to change my original ideas. Firstly it was clear that my original decision to drive off the rear axle was going to create problems leading to some severe surgery on the footplate. I therefore decided to follow the kit instructions suggestion and to drive off the front axle. Secondly, given that the finished loco will be slightly imperfect anyway, I decided to take the plunge and following my successful attempts to provide springing on the tender, to see if I could successfully spring the rear driving wheels. Once again thanks to inspiration and advice from all here especially Jazz and Sandy.

 

Firstly I made up the coupling rods and set the Hobby Holidays Jig. Secondly I opened out the holes to the correct size to take the bearings. Then having tack soldered the two sides of the chassis together it was with some trepidation that I carefully elongated the hole. As advised I allowed downward movement only - about 0.5 mill. I made the springs from 20000 piano wire and drilled a small hole in the top of the bearings to secure it. It was with equal trepidation that I then fitted the wheels and tried it out. Success - the chassis rolled smoothly. 

 

 

I then attached the coupling rods and give the wheels a spin. To my amazement the wheels and rods flew round without a hint of binding. The same thing happened when I put it on a short piece of track and gave it a push. Both directions equally free. Is this just luck? Am I getting better, or does the springing create a chassis that moves more freely? Whatever. it was great boost to confidence after the trails with the tender. 

 

 

So a few days on from the last post I am feeling much more confident about the build.

 

A couple of questions. Should I have used special flux or solder to secure the piano wire? I used 188 and my usual "building O guage on line safety flux. Will that be strong enough? At this stage I could still remove and re solder if needs be.

 

Secondly, to anyone who has built the kit, I have cut out the parts for the bogie as the next job. The instructions seem vague on which way the bearings go though the frame. The kit uses whitemetal axle boxes and  I don't see how you could attach these with the thicker side of the bearings on the outside. David from Alba Models kindly sent me some photos of a finished model - but looking at it was inconclusive. 

 

So first Wembley, then the caravan beckons, so away from the bench for a week feeling more positive. Don't know if I will be back for Doncaster yet, but would be nice to say hello to anyone there if I do make it.

[Shez]

Help please!

 

I am putting the bogie together at the moment. Have got the frames and the bearings completed and alignments have been checked. However the instructions say that I now have to attach the axleboxes which are whitemetal to the outside of the bearings. It suggests "tack soldering with 145 solder". Surely enough heat to use 145 will simply melt the whitemetal castings? ( I do have a temp controlled iron)  Could I glue them on? Is this a normal procedure? Previous kits I have built have not had this type of axle box.

[Shez]

After a lot of thinking I decided to take the plunge and complete the bogie by attaching the axleboxes. In the end I tinned the outer face of the bearings with 145 and then used a small amount of whitemetal solder to attach them. I don't know if this is recommended, but it does seem to have worked. The bogie rolls nice and freely. It was then a case of adding the sidesprings and the compensation beams. The holes for the fixing screws and the rod to hold the compensation beams appeared to be oversize for soldering them in, so I substituted small bolts instead. Sometimes with this kitbuilding business you just need to stop stressing and get on with it!

 

 

With the bogie completed that meant that all the basic chassis components are complete and run freely. I decided therefore to move on to the loco body and began with the footplate. The first impression after cutting this out was that it was very flimsy. After attaching the fixing nuts. I then soldered on the front buffer beam which is located with a half etched line. Then it was attaching the valences which again were long and very flimsy. I tack soldered them from the front taking care that the footplate wasn't pulled out of shape. Once I was happy all was square I ran the seems along to fix them in place. I always like to make the initial tack from inside, but the pieces were so tricky to keep in place I had to go from outside and then clean up. 

 

I then checked the footplate over the chassis. It is obvious that clearances are going to be very tight! The bogie fixes on to a separate sub assembly for the front frames which fixes under the footplate. This is the next job so in the photograph the bogie is just sitting underneath without being fixed. 

 

 

With the bogie sorted the rest of the build looks fairly straightforward. ( No doubt that phrases will come back to haunt me) However, I am still confused by the lubricator on the front right hand driver. The attached photo from the drawings is all that is given, there being no mention of it in the written instructions. 

 

 

What moves here, and what is fixed? How does it fasten  to the loco?  I think I have located the parts on the fret but am none the wiser as to how to put it together, and how it functions. I hope someone out there can give some guidance!

[cctransuk]

After a lot of thinking I decided to take the plunge and complete the bogie by attaching the axleboxes. In the end I tinned the outer face of the bearings with 145 and then used a small amount of whitemetal solder to attach them. I don't know if this is recommended, but it does seem to have worked. The bogie rolls nice and freely. It was then a case of adding the sidesprings and the compensation beams. The holes for the fixing screws and the rod to hold the compensation beams appeared to be oversize for soldering them in, so I substituted small bolts instead. Sometimes with this kitbuilding business you just need to stop stressing and get on with it!

 

WP_20170615_18_46_07_Pro.jpg

 

With the bogie completed that meant that all the basic chassis components are complete and run freely. I decided therefore to move on to the loco body and began with the footplate. The first impression after cutting this out was that it was very flimsy. After attaching the fixing nuts. I then soldered on the front buffer beam which is located with a half etched line. Then it was attaching the valences which again were long and very flimsy. I tack soldered them from the front taking care that the footplate wasn't pulled out of shape. Once I was happy all was square I ran the seems along to fix them in place. I always like to make the initial tack from inside, but the pieces were so tricky to keep in place I had to go from outside and then clean up. 

 

I then checked the footplate over the chassis. It is obvious that clearances are going to be very tight! The bogie fixes on to a separate sub assembly for the front frames which fixes under the footplate. This is the next job so in the photograph the bogie is just sitting underneath without being fixed. 

 

WP_20170615_18_45_41_Pro.jpg

 

With the bogie sorted the rest of the build looks fairly straightforward. ( No doubt that phrases will come back to haunt me) However, I am still confused by the lubricator on the front right hand driver. The attached photo from the drawings is all that is given, there being no mention of it in the written instructions. 

 

WP_20170615_18_46_59_Pro.jpg

 

What moves here, and what is fixed? How does it fasten  to the loco?  I think I have located the parts on the fret but am none the wiser as to how to put it together, and how it functions. I hope someone out there can give some guidance!

 

Nothing is fixed, to the best of my knowledge.

 

The return crank is attached to the crankpin, pointing back towards the wheel centre, in order to reduce the crank-throw.

 

The long rod is articulated to the return crank, which is articulated to the short rod, which is pivotted within / behind the lubricator box.

 

All of this results in the short rod rocking backwards and forwards; (thus driving the lubricator in the prototype).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[sir douglas]

here is the same lubricator assembly on a J38

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/5172275016/in/album-72157629730581833/

[Shez]

Thanks so much for this both John and Sam.

 

That makes sense as to the workings of the rods. Now need to try to identify what fixes to the loco. Might have to do it by going through all the parts and going through a process of elimination. 

[Shez]

Just a quick update.

 

Progress has slowed to a halt over the summer, due to a combination of holidays and family issues. What time I have had I have concentrated on the North British Six wheel coaches on the other thread.

 

Belated thanks to Sandy for the very useful photograph of how the lubricator fits through the footplate.

 

Before going on holiday I did manage to get the Pickersgill  tender and chassis sprayed with their priming coat. I was also very pleased with my self as I had made the loco brake gear removable for painting. However pride always goes before a fall, and somehow I managed to lose the brake gear in transit ( the college where I used to work kindly lets me use their spray booth.) However yesterday I dusted myself down and began to put together a scratch built replacement.

 

It will probably be a couple of weeks at least before I am able to get really up and running again with workbench, but I look forward to resuming posts.

 

The family issues mentioned has meant that I have missed every O gauge event this year - including Telford. I am hoping to get to the Keighley O Guage show in October. Anyone who is going and wants to meet up and say hello please message me. 

[Shez]

Having not contributed for months, I now find myself contributing to two threads on the same night! While work on the Pickersgill is still stalled, as my normal space for soldering is currently still unavailable its been on to the kitchen table to finally finish off the Class D - the first loco I did on this thread. While she has been painted black for some time I had not got round to lining and final detailing - so here she is. Finished as NBR 808 in the later goods livery introduced after 1915.

 

 

As its unheard of me to complete two models on the same evening,  I couldn't resist a picture of both together, though 808 is an unfitted goods loco.

 

 

If anyone would like to say hello I will be helping out at Wakefield show this weekend - and the two models will be there as well.

[sir douglas]

that looks fantastic mark, your welcome to run the carriage on my layout but the loco is too long

Edited November 16, 2017 by sir douglas

[Shez]

Thanks to the nice lads from Great Yarmouth who allowed me to take this picture of Number 808 on their lovely Aber Emlyn  Layout at Wakefield Show. I wouldn't have though it would have the bunker capacity to make it to South Wales!

 

 

I have finally finished the decorating so the workbench is back set up and building should resume this week.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Shez

[nigelb]

Wow     thats one love piece of modelling   (both the layout AND the loco"

 

Thanks to the nice lads from Great Yarmouth who allowed me to take this picture of Number 808 on their lovely Aber Emlyn  Layout at Wakefield Show. I wouldn't have though it would have the bunker capacity to make it to South Wales!

 

DSCN0057.JPG

 

I have finally finished the decorating so the workbench is back set up and building should resume this week.

[Shez]

Thanks Nigel - if you get the chance to see Aber Emlyn at any show its a stunning piece of modelling. You see so many GWR layouts at shows but not that many that depict South Wales. 

 

One of the things I have realised from looking at the photos is that the shading on the control numbers on the tank sides is the wrong way round!  The Guilplates NBR transfer sheet only includes the large yellow control numbers which the photo I used for the livery show would be far too large. The numbers on the coach sheet would be too small. I used early LNER numbers from a Fox transfers sheet - correct colours and shading but on the wrong side. Can anyone suggest any other numbers that would be of the correct pattern that I could use in future?

Edited December 11, 2017 by Shez

[nigelb]

Thanks Nigel - if you get the chance to see Aber Emlyn at any show its a stunning piece of modelling. You see so many GWR layouts at shows but not that many that depict South Wales. 

 

One of the things I have realised from looking at the photos is that the shading on the control numbers on the tank sides is the wrong way round!  The Guilplates NBR transfer sheet only includes the large yellow control numbers which the photo I used for the livery show would be far too large. The numbers on the coach sheet would be too small. I used early LNER numbers from a Fox transfers sheet - correct colours and shading but on the wrong side. Can anyone suggest any other numbers that would be of the correct pattern that I could use in future?

err  can you  not put the numbers the other way round ?

Edited December 11, 2017 by nigelb

[Shez]

Err?  Would they not then be upside down?

 

The number needs to have the shading on the left as you look at it, as do the letters NB.   LNER shading was on the right. I think that LMS numbers may have shading on the left side - but they are not the correct pattern of number. 

[sir douglas]

no, i think he means that the side of the transfer that sticks to the surface would instead face out, its a flip not rotation

[Shez]

Pickersgills Progress....

 

At last after some delays and setbacks the Pickersgill is back on the move again with some progress during the last week. 

 

 

The last serious work had been getting the tender primed. While i was spraying this I also did the loco chassis and the detachable break gear. First problem - the brake gear got lost! I have therefore had to sratchbuild a replacement using some Slaters plastic blocks form my scrapbox. Not 100% prototypical, so any CRASSOC members look away now!  Secondly once I did some test running on the chassis it was clear that something was not quite right - changing the way I mounted the motor and the pick ups seemed to do the trick and the chassis is now running well. I used beryllium copper wire for these.

 

This is the first time I have succeeded with detachable brake gear. I used the usual method of cutting small pieces of brass tube to make the spacers. I the past I have always struggled to get them exactly the same length. However, I great little tool I got from Hobby Holidays allows you to cut hollow tube really accurately. I would really recommend one.

 

So on to the loco body. The instructions stress that it is important to start the splashers form the outside with the coupling rod splashers, and then add to tops on the inside. The main splashers then align with the edges of the splasher tops. I found the soldering challenging as not only are the shapes awkward, but there are no slots and tabs as I have been used to in previous kits. Eventually it was a case of getting a tack in to hold the piece and then re positioning accordingly. Once the splahsers were in place I added the cab front, and so we are starting to get some solidity.  Next jobs will be cab sides and splasher tops.  Not my neatest soldering job - so a good clean will be necessary. The kit continues to delight and infuriate in equal measure. 

[jazz]

A master classic neat soldering, very nice.

[Shez]

Thanks for the kind comment Jazz - I think a closer look at the soldering would get a different response!

 

Glad you are following my efforts, its been advice from your self and Sandy that has got me this far.

 

I am really pleased at how your springing method has worked out on this loco. Next up following this one will be an 0 -4 -4 tank loco. What would your approach be there?  

[jazz]

Hi Shez.  There are so many different approaches to that one.  My view is it greatly depends on the model to be built.  The 0-4-4 and indeed the 4-4-0's I have built require weight over the drivers to keep them from weighing down on the bogies. I spring one of the driving axles (putting the gearbox/motor on the unsprung axle) and springing the axle with a downwards movement only. The bogie would have a lead weight soldered to it instead of the usual spring on the post. Some guys would also compensate the bogie axle(s). Have have never done that and had no problems or complaints.

 

With sufficient weight on the bogie I would also fit wiper pickups on it. I MHO the more pickups the better as I hate locos that stop when crawling through turnouts etc.

 

I'm sure others will have alternative suggestions.

[Shez]

Thanks very much for the suggestions Jazz.

 

 

Won't be starting it for a bit yet, so will have a trawl through the forum and look at some different approaches - but yours seems straightforward.. 

 

Another of my endless questions for everyone out there. Yesterday I did some work on the cabsides attaching the handrails, beading and the cab side lamp irons that are so characteristic of the Caley. (Pictures to follow) For the first time I used some Carrs 179 Solder Creamt I got at Warley. This made the beading and lamp irons really easy. However, I am not sure I am using it correctly. While it made the joint easily, I still had some solder to clean up. Am I using too much? If so the amounts required must be tiny! Also How do you apply it - the syringe seems to put too much on for a small job - I tried smearing it with a cocktail stick. Also, I assume its correct to use it as you would flux applied to the job, rather than put on the end of the iron.

[jazz]

OK. Regarding the soldering. I exclusively use MBO Z60 liquid flux (Never have used creams, paste etc etc). For the detail attachments I use low melt solder.

 

Attaching handrail knobs apply the solder to the knob, insert into the hole apply a dab of flux, apply iron and job is done. A little practice will soon teach just the right amount of solder to use.

 

Lamp irons etc pretty much the same, apply a little solder, flux the position and heat the part. Very little clean up will be required.

 

Cab beading. I tin the beading and tin the edges where it is to go. Shape to fit and run iron along the beading.  Again there probably be a small amount of solder to clean off. I find the fibre brush will do that job.

 

I will be off line for a few days now, my wife will not be looking at the forum.

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks very much for the suggestions Jazz.

 

 

Won't be starting it for a bit yet, so will have a trawl through the forum and look at some different approaches - but yours seems straightforward.. 

 

Another of my endless questions for everyone out there. Yesterday I did some work on the cabsides attaching the handrails, beading and the cab side lamp irons that are so characteristic of the Caley. (Pictures to follow) For the first time I used some Carrs 179 Solder Creamt I got at Warley. This made the beading and lamp irons really easy. However, I am not sure I am using it correctly. While it made the joint easily, I still had some solder to clean up. Am I using too much? If so the amounts required must be tiny! Also How do you apply it - the syringe seems to put too much on for a small job - I tried smearing it with a cocktail stick. Also, I assume its correct to use it as you would flux applied to the job, rather than put on the end of the iron.

 

Hi Mark,

 

Although Like Ken, I have never used solder paste. I have found that you can get away with the tiniest amounts of solder - you can always add more which is easier than getting rid of excess.