West Highland Line V4, a 1980's West Highland Line layout

[ISW]

On 03/02/2024 at 06:41, young37215 said:

Does anyone have experiences of Woodland Scenics Deep Pour to share or counsel to give on what else I could use to create the visual appearance of water?

 

On 03/02/2024 at 06:41, young37215 said:

If I can recreate the reflection effect I will be a happy camper

Rob,

 

In which case, just use a thin sheet of mirror. If that's 'too' reflective, then a thin sheet of glass with the back painted black will also work.  I've seen the same 'trick' used by Andrew Peters in depots to create puddles.

 

Ian

[young37215]

On 04/02/2024 at 21:02, ISW said:

 

Rob,

 

In which case, just use a thin sheet of mirror. If that's 'too' reflective, then a thin sheet of glass with the back painted black will also work.  I've seen the same 'trick' used by Andrew Peters in depots to create puddles.

 

Ian

 

Nice idea Ian but the shape of the lochan will be irregular and I want to create the illusion of depth which I think will be best achieved using a resin. I know nothing of resins so I had a read up on them yesterday and find that, as ever, there are lots of choices. It seem that epoxy resins are the least toxic and easiest to work with,  @TheGreenHowards suggested resin is a polyester resin which stink and are rather toxic albeit are noticeably cheaper. Although I cannot find out exactly what the Woodland Scenics product comprises, from the comments in their marketing it seems fairly evident that it is an epoxy resin. WS also caution care with the paint used to colour the base landscape, it seems that emulsion can react with their product and so I'll need to use something else to cover and seal the area. 

 

In addition to some more running I will be working on the lochan area landscape over the coming week. My aim is to create an area where a 10mm depth of resin will be required and I'll see how the landscape works out before making a final decision on the product I use to fill it. Having filled my head with questions about the choices of resin, some running was required to provide a distraction. 37112 approaches Garelochead with an Oban service.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6 by young37215

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

 @TheGreenHowards suggested resin is a polyester resin which stink and are rather toxic albeit are noticeably cheaper.

 

 

It certainly stinks and there are warnings about toxicity, although if it’s sold for public use it can’t be too bad. In our case, we mixed it outside and opened the windows in the room. Then poured, shut the door and left it to set.

[ISW]

2 hours ago, young37215 said:

Nice idea Ian but the shape of the lochan will be irregular

Rob,

 

The 'trick' is to use the nearest rectangular shape, and let the scenery 'overlap' over the top of the glass to give the desired irregular shape.

 

2 hours ago, young37215 said:

and I want to create the illusion of depth which I think will be best achieved using a resin.

Understood. Mirrors aren't going to cut it there.

 

If it helps, there are plenty of YouTube videos of woodworking experts using 2-part clear epoxy resins (usually a marine type) to 'infill' wood or between lumps of wood. They use it to create nice flat work surfaces in 'knarly' wood or to infill irregular shapes for wood turning (on a lathe). They show the 'tricks' they use, particularly how to avoid 'bubbles' on the surface of the poured epoxy (waft over it with a hot flame).

 

Ian

[BoD]

I see Bachmann has announced more Mk1 TSOs in blue/grey.  Hooray!!!!

End steps removed where appropriate. Hooray!!!

Bogies fitted with electrical pickups. Maybe useful. Extra drag ?

Optional version with fitted passengers. £10 extra.  Jury’s out.

 

The prices though.  Ouch!!!!!!

Edited February 7 by BoD

[thegreenhowards]

7 hours ago, BoD said:

 

The prices though.  Ouch!!!!!!

Feel my ‘O’ gauge pain! Loco prices seem to be converging a little, but we still have to pay best part of £200 per coach.

[young37215]

14 hours ago, BoD said:

I see Bachmann has announced more Mk1 TSOs in blue/grey.  Hooray!!!!

End steps removed where appropriate. Hooray!!!

Bogies fitted with electrical pickups. Maybe useful. Extra drag ?

Optional version with fitted passengers. £10 extra.  Jury’s out.

 

The prices though.  Ouch!!!!!!

 

The blue and grey re-runs are long overdue albeit Bachmann prices are increasingly eye watering. With the usual 15% to rrp discounts, £50 a coach compares with Ebay prices that I have seen Mk1s changing hands for in recent months and I don't think Bachmann will struggle to sell them. Personally I have more Mk1's than I need for WHL4 although I am interested in the electrical pick ups because I plan to add lighting to the coach fleet. I know that there are options available to add pick ups to existing coaches like the DCC Concepts wheel springs, but if Bachmann make the bogies with electrical pick ups available through their spares outlet I will be taking a close look. 

 

I am still working my way through the maze of epoxy resins that I might use for the lochans. I have not yet got certainty as to exactly what the Woodland Scenic Deep Pour water comprises but I am failrly certain that it is epoxy resin. Compared with alternative clear epoxy resins, it is at least 3 x the price meaning if I can find one that can be coloured and I feel comfortable with, I will probably try this. 

 

[young37215]

As if by magic 6 Bachmann SO's in blue and grey appeared on Ebay yesterday with each listing comprising an individual coach. Early this morning they had been bid up to just over £20, it will be interesting to see what they end up selling for. On the basis that the new Bachmann SO's are not due until mid summer I suspect that the Ebay 6 will sell for a high price.

 

I have been working through an ongoing issue with my Megapoints system where since I added their DCC module I have faced an increasing number of 'network freeze ups' requiring a re-boot. Dave Fenton attributes the problem to Megapoints being sensitive to shorts on the DCC BUS which is now linked to the Megapoints network by the DCC module. On the basis of his advice I have installed 2 CAN's electronically isolated from the rest of the Megapoints network. There has been a small improvment following the CAN installation but the issue is still frustrating me. I ran trains for several hours yesterday with the DCC module disconnected and Megapoints behaved perfectly as it usually does. I like having control of the Megapoints network through the DCC controller, however if it keeps freezing then the DCC module will be disabled.

 

37111 has seen quite a bit of activity since its recent respray although it still needs a light weathering to tone down the new paint look. Today 111 had charge of 12.45 Mallaig to Glasgow seen at Ardlui on its journey south.

 

 

 

 

[37114]

On 03/02/2024 at 06:41, young37215 said:

Progress with the mountaineous section has been slow largely because I cannot quite get clear in my head what I want to see. I plan to include a loch running along side the track as it approaches the gradient summit of about 1000mm in length and 120mm width as shown in the picture below. The smaller area marked will also be filled with a water effect product as a test and learning experience for the loch. I need to tweak the landscape and paint the 'floor' of the loch a darker colour to emphasise the depth. It will require a resin or similar product to create the water effect which is something I have zero experience of. I have watched a few Youtube videos where Woodland Scenics Deep Pour water has been used to good effect and am tempted to try this out. It is not cheap, £40 plus a bottle for 12 fluid ounces and I need at least 2 bottles for the loch. 

 

Does anyone have experiences of Woodland Scenics Deep Pour to share or counsel to give on what else I could use to create the visual appearance of water?

 

 

What I am looking to create is a variation on the bottom end of Loch Eilt to the north of Glenfinnan. 

 

 

If I can recreate the reflection effect I will be a happy camper

 

 

Bit late to the party but I have used Woodland scenics realistic water on both my layouts with streams in and found it gave great results. I made sure the abandoned streams/canals I was modelling had a suitably painted bottom to create the murkiness then slowly added it in thin layers each night. This meant that any leaks were effectively "self sealed" as it is the consistency of thick double cream when poured and it also meant that things like weeds or a half submerged tyre were absorbed into the water which isn't possible with mirrors etc. At close distance it looks clear (which to be fair all bar the muddies puddle are) but at further distance it was murky but with a shine on the top.

 

 

[young37215]

Having read about as much as I can about resins, watched numerous Youtube videos and after doing a cost comparison, I decided on buying 1L of an epoxy resin. This costs 3.6p per ml which works out about a quarter of the Woodland Scenics Deep Pour water cost. I will trial this on the smaller of the two lochans and see what I can achieve. 

 

37111 departs Ardlui and continues it journey south through the mountaineous section of line towards Arrochar.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25 by young37215

[Moonter]

I was watching these amazing films and they made me think of your layout.

Peak Rail Presents - Doug Copley's Lineside Images #3.1- Fort William to Mallaig (undated) (youtube.com)

Peak Rail Presents - Doug Copley's Lineside Images #3.2 Kyle of Lochalsh to Inverness (1986-88)

 

 

[Module00]

Hello Rob, 

 

for the water of your loch you can paint the bottom of the water with acrylic paint with green and black (or blue/green and black) you start from the almost black center and you make a gradient towards increasingly lighter green towards the shore. then you spread three layers of acrylic medium to give depth. finally you spread several coats of glitter acrylic varnish with a brush. 
 

it is a simple method, but which limits the risk of failure. I learned about it in a book to create battlefields for Warhammer and it was simple and effective. 
 

best regards. 

[BoD]

8 minutes ago, Module00 said:

for the water of your loch you can paint the bottom of the water with acrylic paint with green and black (or blue/green and black) you start from the almost black center and you make a gradient towards increasingly lighter green towards the shore

 

I have found through much trial, error, angst and even more error, that the painting of the bottom has a far more greater effect on the final appearance than whatever is layered on the top.  
 

Something to practice first?

[young37215]

16 hours ago, Moonter said:

I was watching these amazing films and they made me think of your layout.

Peak Rail Presents - Doug Copley's Lineside Images #3.1- Fort William to Mallaig (undated) (youtube.com)

Peak Rail Presents - Doug Copley's Lineside Images #3.2 Kyle of Lochalsh to Inverness (1986-88)

 

 

 

Doug Copley's videos are well worth a watch by fans of the 1980's, his Oban line dates slightly later than my era but still a useful reference source. The Royal Scotsman material is some of the best that I have seen. I think I have said before that I hope that somewhere in the archives is some more WHL specific material.

 

 

The epoxy resin arrived yesterday. I need to create the base for the small Lochan to try it out and have ordered several different shades of the Woodland Scenics water undercoats for the base. As Bod says, much trial and no doubt error to come!

 

[Dunalastair]

At least the loco-hauled trains might have warmed up on a cold winter day back then. If anything, I remember Mk1s in steam-heat days sometimes being rather too warm, though the 101s between Dunblane and Edinburgh could get a little chilly. The BBC is currently carrying a story about the 156s on the Oban run never getting much above freezing.

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-68241768

 

Edited February 15 by Dunalastair

[Module00]

On 14/02/2024 at 21:45, BoD said:

 

I have found through much trial, error, angst and even more error, that the painting of the bottom has a far more greater effect on the final appearance than whatever is layered on the top.  
 

Something to practice first?

Yes that's exactly it. I share your analysis.

[young37215]

I am doing a little preparation for a day or two of airbrushing with several BSOT's needing varnishing and weathering in addition to a number of wagons requiring their framework weathering. As ever I have been distracted by another task on the long list of 'to do's', the Queen Mary brake van DS56292 that usually sat in a siding at Crianlarich. It did move around on occassion, in 1986 it got to Fort William as in the first picture below. I acquired an olive green Queen Mary a while ago and am looking for the colours I need to do a repaint. I am not sure if the livery was a very faded variation of engineers grey and the consequences of sitting in the damp for several years or something else. Given how faded the paint is I am not sure that identfying the original colour is necessary but if anyone can clarify it would be helpful.

 

 

In 1986 it also had a trip to Bridge of Orchy

 

 

There are 2 more pictures in the attached thread showing the Queen Mary in her more usual position at Crianlarich together with a brief comment on the reasons for her being outposted there.

 

 

[young37215]

The Bachmann Queen Mary breaks down quite easily with 4 screws enabling the constituent parts to be separated. I decided to hand paint thinking that might create a more worn appearance. Using an old tin of a Humbrol grey paint, two light coats produced a pleasing effect. I need to add the yellow band to the body side and a third coat of grey. A single coat of roof dirt will get another coat to deepen the colour but overall I’m happy with progress. 
 

 

 

[young37215]

I managed to complete most of the painting of the Queen Mary yesterday, only the chassis remains unpainted. I have made a list of the various rolling stock I intend weathering which I will round up to face the airbrush. An airbushing session will make any running impractical so I made the most of the opportunity before disrupting everything and started a new day of 1981 operations . The first northbound freight was 7B02, 06.06 Sighthill to Mallaig Junction Yard seen on departure from Crianlarich headed by 37026 which is on the weathering list for a light dusting of grime on the loco chassis. My aim is to recreate the loco as it appeared in late 1981, early 1982 following a works visit in summer 1981 followed by naming in October.

 

 

 

 

[young37215]

No airbrushing yesterday, just pure unadulterated playing trains. 30 minutes after 7B02's departure, 37017 clatters into Crianlarich with 1T16, 07.40 Oban to Glasgow.

 

 

 

 

[young37215]

I am still faffing over the mountaineous section which is slowing progress with the scenic work. The issue remains the summit of the gradient as shown in the third picture of 37085 and 7D12 where I dont like the rail joint. Trains pass happily over this but it looks wrong to me and until I am happy with the visual effect I wont be finishing off the scenery. In hindsight I should have used a different base for the gradient trackwork and am seriously considering ripping it up and starting again.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Fishplate]

35 minutes ago, young37215 said:

The issue remains the summit of the gradient as shown in the third picture of 37085 and 7D12 where I dont like the rail joint. Trains pass happily over this but it looks wrong to me and until I am happy with the visual effect I wont be finishing off the scenery. In hindsight I should have used a different base for the gradient trackwork and am seriously considering ripping it up and starting again.  

 

 

 

Ouch 😔.

 

Yes, you can see the flanges of the leading wheel set are exposed in the picture I've included in the quote. The middle and rear wheel sets are on the preceding gradient. Any change in horizontal alignment caused by any track movement could result in a derailment.

 

The rail joint position between the leading and middle wheel set needs to be moved away from the underlying rising and falling triangles of the trackbed.

 

Option 1: I'm assuming the ballast is all glued down. It may be possible to move the joint by (very carefully!) removing some of the rails on the right hand side of the summit gradient and replace with short lengths. Then pull the left hand rails over the summit, rethreading into the sleeper base so the centre of a yard of track sits at the summit and creates a vertical curve. Then infill so rail joints are on the gradients either side. Not sure how effective this might be as 1) I can't see how many of the 'baseplates' are removed either side of the joint to accommodate the fishplates and 2) not sure if the ballast can be removed to let the rails/ sleepers/ ballast follow a vertical curve.

 

Option 2) would be, as you say, dig it up.

 

Form a vertical curve in the track bed by cutting out sections of the top layer(s) of the two triangles. Then lay longer sections of cork that cover the  joint in the lower sections of the trackbed that is under the leading wheel set. That should form a nice vertical curve that the track can follow. Then centre a yard of track or length you are happy with at the summit.

 

You could get a feel for how either option would work by overlaying a yard on the track over the rails as they currently sit. You'll find a loose yard will form a natural vertical curve, which you can weigh down to at either end to get a better view. The thing is to get a gentle vertical curve to accommodate the unsprung three axle diesel bogies (or steam specials with six coupled wheels).

 

Personally I think Option 2 is the only way to go. But you might want to try Option 1. If that doesn't work by fitting the rails back into the sleeper base, you are already part way to Option 2. 

 

Hope that helps ?

[BoD]

Only you can decide if you want to redo that section or can live with it. You won’t be the first or the last to ‘go back to the drawing board and felt happier with the result.  I’m not sure how long it would take to redo but it will be a relatively short time compared to how long you will be bugged by it if you don’t.

[03060]

I think Option 2 as described by @Fishplate is the way to go as I think a joint on the summit will always be a 'weak' point with potential to change in the future (ie such as with differences between summer and winter temperatures) however does this section need a joint for maintenence removal purposes ?

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

[young37215]

Helpful counsel, thanks for the thoughts. Something needs to change on the joint but what and how I am less certain. What is frustrating is that I had the joint alignment spot on before ballasting using 3mm strips of cork. Why it has changed I cannot fathom although my suspicion is the horizontal track alignment has been affected by glueing resulting in the ends of the two rails at the joint no longer being horizontal. I will work through this and find a way forward, if it involves ripping up track then so be it; the current track alignment is likely to cause running issues over time which I will be well advised to avoid.

 

Onwards with more running and 37111 is shown running northwards through the landscape with a train for Oban.