Unidentified Location and/or Loco/Date

[The Johnster]

This was the next one I was going to put up as an unknown location. However. thanks to Google images, I have identified it as Quaker Yard Low Level station. Here we have pannier tank 9668 approaching the station on a freight (trip working C13?). Aberfan tips can be seen in the distance.

 

RRA5_17_20170126_0017_800.jpg

 

Taken from a Cardiff-Merthyr dmu which dates it post 1958.  The pannier is heading for the Pontypool line which is marked by the telegraph pole up the bank directly above the lamp in the picture.  Unusual to see a loco heading smokebox first down the valley.  The tips seem a bit close for Aberfan, but I can't think what other colliery they could be; the Taff valley goes into a bit of a rural mode between Abercynon and Merthyr Vale.

[The Stationmaster]

Taken from a Cardiff-Merthyr dmu which dates it post 1958.  The pannier is heading for the Pontypool line which is marked by the telegraph pole up the bank directly above the lamp in the picture.  Unusual to see a loco heading smokebox first down the valley.  The tips seem a bit close for Aberfan, but I can't think what other colliery they could be; the Taff valley goes into a bit of a rural mode between Abercynon and Merthyr Vale.

 

The tip on the right - obscured by the pannier's exhaust - is part of the one on the mountain above Aberfan but there were a couple of big tips close together there so it might not be the one that slid onto the school.  

 

The pannier might be off the Vale of Neath, or working a  train that way instead of just shunting the exchange sidings between the two lines a Pontypool Road - I think one of my photos from 1962 has an engine in those sidings that way round as well.

[The Border Reiver]

Taken from a Cardiff-Merthyr dmu which dates it post 1958.  The pannier is heading for the Pontypool line which is marked by the telegraph pole up the bank directly above the lamp in the picture.  Unusual to see a loco heading smokebox first down the valley.  The tips seem a bit close for Aberfan, but I can't think what other colliery they could be; the Taff valley goes into a bit of a rural mode between Abercynon and Merthyr Vale.

 

The photo was taken on 22 August 1963 while on a all line railrover

[The Border Reiver]

I have this photo of 3406 recorded as taken at Radyr Station on 22 August 1963 in my catalogue. Can anyone confirm this location. Again, taken from the train while I was on my way from Cardiff to Abercynon.

 

[Karhedron]

I will do a new thread once I have finished scanning in more negatives and entered the data into my electronic catalogue. I have a couple of thousand more negatives to process, most which have never been printed, they have just been in folders for the past 50 years.

Wow, I look forward to seeing them. I visit the area regularly as my wife's god-parents live in Newcastle Emlyn and my parents have a place nearby in Cwrt Newydd. Do you have any photos showing any of the Dairies or milk trains which once served the area?

[Rivercider]

I have this photo of 3406 recorded as taken at Radyr Station on 22 August 1963 in my catalogue. Can anyone confirm this location. Again, taken from the train while I was on my way from Cardiff to Abercynon.

 

RRA5_14_20170126_0014_800.jpg

Yes that is Radyr all right, that pole just to the right of the loco appears in some of my photos, is it made out of rail?

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

I have this photo of 3406 recorded as taken at Radyr Station on 22 August 1963 in my catalogue. Can anyone confirm this location. Again, taken from the train while I was on my way from Cardiff to Abercynon.

 

RRA5_14_20170126_0014_800.jpg

 

Something doesn't sound right in your description.  It is definitely Radyr and the pannier is standing on the Down Relief at Radyr Jcn's Down Relief Home Signal but that is where things end because to get that angle of view the picture must have been taken from ground level and not from a passing train.  And if, as sometimes happened due to engineering work, a passenger train towards  Abercynon had been using the Relief Lines it would have been on the Up Relief which is the line immediately next to the one on which the pannier is standing.  There were four lines on that side of the Up Main platform at that time - the Down Relief (where the pannier is standing), the Up Relief, and then two sidings - the nearest of these to the photographers viewpoint is not visible but the one which has a crossover to it facing out of the Up Relief is visible in the photo.

 

So definitely not taken from a train.

[The Johnster]

Mike is, as usual, right; the photo could not have been taken from a passing train, but is almost certainly taken from the road entrance to the small yard on the north side of the subway.  This was at the start of the hill up to the village, which accounts for the fairly high viewpoint and the belief that it was taken from a passing train.  3408 is waiting for acceptance into the main yard, and is probably at the head of a queue of trains on the down relief, which was permissive block and frequently held trains awaiting their turn as far back as Walnut Tree.  The road it is on is now the up main and the platform face, railed off in those days, has been brought into use for what is nowadays a 3 platform passenger station. the old up and down reliefs which ran all the way to Pontypridd have long been lifted and their trackbeds are full of buddlea.  Behind the trees is the River Taff.

[br2975]

I have this photo of 3406 recorded as taken at Radyr Station on 22 August 1963 in my catalogue. Can anyone confirm this location. Again, taken from the train while I was on my way from Cardiff to Abercynon.

 

RRA5_14_20170126_0014_800.jpg

A bit late to the show..................but yes, this is the down end of Radyr station, with the 34xx on the goods line, waiting to enter the yard.

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I have always had a soft spot for these un-superheated downmarket 94xx tanks.

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Until it closed in 1964 I lived two fields away from the Llantrisant No.1 Railway between Waterhall Junction and Creigiau Quarry.

.

Two trains a day ran from Radyr Yard to Waterhall Jct. then propelled along the branch to Creigiau and returned with loaded limestone hoppers, which, once back on the 'main' at Waterhall Jct. they propelled wrong line back to Radyr Yard. 

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The train was invariably in the hands of a 34xx - anything else was an event.

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Lovely photo.

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Brian R

[The Stationmaster]

Mike is, as usual, right; the photo could not have been taken from a passing train, but is almost certainly taken from the road entrance to the small yard on the north side of the subway.  This was at the start of the hill up to the village, which accounts for the fairly high viewpoint and the belief that it was taken from a passing train.  3408 is waiting for acceptance into the main yard, and is probably at the head of a queue of trains on the down relief, which was permissive block and frequently held trains awaiting their turn as far back as Walnut Tree.  The road it is on is now the up main and the platform face, railed off in those days, has been brought into use for what is nowadays a 3 platform passenger station. the old up and down reliefs which ran all the way to Pontypridd have long been lifted and their trackbeds are full of buddlea.  Behind the trees is the River Taff.

 

The queue on the Down Relief was a source of considerable fun one afternoon when Radyr was a TOPS trial site.  I popped in to Radyr Jcn signalbox one afternoon to find a muttering Signalman with the Down Relief block instrument on 'Bloacked Back with three lever collars on top of it instantly followed by the Signalman launching off about how TOPS was messing up the yard work and causing huge problems for trains getting into the yard.  I duly looked at the Train Register (although it was only skeleton booking) and casually asked the Signalman if he knew the DI's 'phone number?

 

Les fell for it and asked why and was starting to look a bit worried so I told him I was about to take him out of the 'box because of a serious discrepancy between the block instrument and the TRB so I need to get hold of Hughie to send down a Reliefman.  Cue an ebven more worried Les saying 'but I was only joking, surely you knew that?'.  So I duly looked him straight in the eye and told him to that I too was only joking but he'd better put the block right before he made the tea or he might find out that the joke was on him.  Smashing bloke and we were the best of friends as it happened but he obviously didn't forget the incident as when he was in the office at Swindon one day 12 years later he happened across me and it figured in our conversation.  But that was the sort of innocent fun you could have on the railway back then.

[The Border Reiver]

Wow, I look forward to seeing them. I visit the area regularly as my wife's god-parents live in Newcastle Emlyn and my parents have a place nearby in Cwrt Newydd. Do you have any photos showing any of the Dairies or milk trains which once served the area?

Hi,

 

Sory, no photos om milk trains. I was born and bred in Carlisle and only visited Wales and southern England once a year on a railrover which was mainly a shed bashing fortnight.

[The Border Reiver]

Something doesn't sound right in your description.  It is definitely Radyr and the pannier is standing on the Down Relief at Radyr Jcn's Down Relief Home Signal but that is where things end because to get that angle of view the picture must have been taken from ground level and not from a passing train.  And if, as sometimes happened due to engineering work, a passenger train towards  Abercynon had been using the Relief Lines it would have been on the Up Relief which is the line immediately next to the one on which the pannier is standing.  There were four lines on that side of the Up Main platform at that time - the Down Relief (where the pannier is standing), the Up Relief, and then two sidings - the nearest of these to the photographers viewpoint is not visible but the one which has a crossover to it facing out of the Up Relief is visible in the photo.

 

So definitely not taken from a train.

 

You are correct. Checking my notebook against my catalogue, the next photo in the film strip was a Class 37 D6819 taken at Radyr shed, so I must have alighted from the train there. My notes should actually have referred to this photo, which again I think was taken at Radyr station travelling back from Treherbert to Barry.

 

 

Here is the Class 37 photo

 

[Rivercider]

You are correct. Checking my notebook against my catalogue, the next photo in the film strip was a Class 37 D6819 taken at Radyr shed, so I must have alighted from the train there. My notes should actually have referred to this photo, which again I think was taken at Radyr station travelling back from Treherbert to Barry.

 

RRA5_22_20170126_0022_800.jpg

 

Here is the Class 37 photo

 

RRA5_15_20170126_0015_800.jpg

I stand to be corrected, but that first photo is taken at Taffs Well the next station north of Radyr. It could have been taken from a train looking east.

If so the two tracks just over the fence are the main lines up the Big Hill to Aber, behind that are the sidings of Cambrian(?) Forge,

 

edit - I have found some photos I took at Taffs Well in 1983, not from the same angle, but it is the same brick admin block with 7 windows 

and on the extreme right of your shot is the front of what looks like an engine shed which also appears in my photo,

 

cheers 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Rivercider

[The Stationmaster]

I stand to be corrected, but that first photo is taken at Taffs Well the next station north of Radyr. It could have been taken from a train looking east.

If so the two tracks just over the fence are the main lines up the Big Hill to Aber, behind that are the sidings of Cambrian(?) Forge,

 

edit - I have found some photos I took at Taffs Well in 1983, not from the same angle, but it is the same brick admin block with 7 windows 

and on the extreme right of your shot is the front of what looks like an engine shed which also appears in my photo,

 

cheers 

 

It is very definitely Taffs Well - I ought to know as at one time I used to get on the train there everyday on the way to work and subsequently it was one of 'my' stations.  The building that looks like an engine shed was indeed a former, and long closed, engine shed - the Rhymney Railway's Walnut Tree engine shed.

 

D6819 is at Radyr shed yard - looking away from the shed building rather than towards it.

Edited February 17, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[The Johnster]

The 94xx is, I agree, at Taff's Well, in the sidings of what later became Forgemasters and with the Penrhos roads between it and the down platform, which you can see the fence for and the foot of the footbridge which is of course still there.  It may be resting between banking duties, a very common task for the big panniers here.  The Penrhos line is now a cycle path, and you can get up a good bit of speed coming down the bank on it!  D6819 was, IIRC, the first 37 to be allocated to South Wales as a replacement for a build of lower geared Hymeks that disappeared into history's 'might have been' file when B-P went under; D6829 and D6830 were trialled but went back to Scotland.  It is still in a quite clean state in this shot, which is definitely Radyr, possibly on the up Quarry line or one of the yard roads adjacent to it from the position of Castell Coch hill in the background, the running road being more likely.  The wagon behind is probably a bogie bolster E, with commonweath type bogies, IIRC these were all fitted and it looks to be in bauxite livery.

 

You must have alighted at Radyr and had a look around as you say, as the D6819 shot is a few hundred yards from the station, though I don't think the loco is on the shed, which is a hundred yards or so east of the spot I think this is, between the Quarry marshalling sidings and the P.D. yard.  I am not 100% sure though, as the Radyr complex was a bit of a warren in that particular locality, where everything looked the same and your view was usually restricted by coal wagons.  The lower part of the village, including Station Road, is visible in the left background of the picture, and this is what makes me think you were a little bit west of the shed, and the obvious route to walk would have been alongside the up Quarry running road.  One route from the station to the shed is this way, out on to the lane at Quarry box, and along the riverbank to the back of the shed.  

 

The shed roads were spaced a little further apart.  The 37s rarely seemed to use the shed, where there were no facilities for them, and were usually stabled at the junction end of the down yard or one of the main yards, where a new booking on point office was provided just south of the station area for their crews.  I cannot now recall how quickly the steam shed was sold off after it had been cleared of locos after the end of steam here in August 1965, but it was not long.  Powell Duffryn used it for some time as a tank cleaning plant for oil, gas, and chemical tank wagons.

Edited February 17, 2017 by The Johnster

[The Border Reiver]

Thank you Mike and The Johnster for the info. Here we have a couple more from 28 August 1963.

 

The first one is taken from a carriage window looking forward while passing a yard between Swansea and Cardiff. The Western Class loco is D1046. Anyone recognise the location?

 

 

The second one is an 2-8-0 tank 5238 passing through a station which is between the photo above and Cardiff. Initially I had it down as Cardiff General but on reflection, it hasn't got a footbridge.

 

[Poor Old Bruce]

Certainly Whitland was a destination and despatch point for fish traffic, and that's a D801 blue spot fish van alongside.

 

FWIW According to my Eastern Region Freight Train Loads Book dated 1967, a "Solid blue spot on the side of fish vans." was supposed to signify "Fitted with roller bearing axle boxes." I contend that the van in the photo has plain bearings, could it be an earlier LNER version?

 

The only place where I have ever changed trains from a station suffixed 'Low Level' to the adjacent one suffixed 'High Level', and vice versa.

 

Wot! not even Wolverhampton?

[Fat Controller]

Thank you Mike and The Johnster for the info. Here we have a couple more from 28 August 1963.

 

The first one is taken from a carriage window looking forward while passing a yard between Swansea and Cardiff. The Western Class loco is D1046. Anyone recognise the location?

 

RRA6_10_20170127_0011_800.jpg

 

The second one is an 2-8-0 tank 5238 passing through a station which is between the photo above and Cardiff. Initially I had it down as Cardiff General but on reflection, it hasn't got a footbridge.

 

RRA6_11_20170127_0012_800.jpg

The first one could be Briton Ferry, between Neath and Port Talbot; the chimneys are in the correct place for Briton Ferry steelworks. The coaching stock would possibly be destined for either the scrapyard at 'Giant's Grave', or for those around Morriston.

The second might be Bridgend.

[The Johnster]

In 1963, D1046 between Swansea and Cardiff with mk1 stock meant a Swansea-Paddington most probably.  I think the location is just after leaving Neath General, a place that at one time had a centre road, with the works in the background being Metal Box, which made food tins.  I am not certain, as the place had changed beyond recognition from a railway point of view by the time I knew it a decade later, but Briton Ferry did not have the centre road AFAIK.  I considered Swansea just after departure, but it would be Malefant carriage sidings to the right, more signals, and less freight in the yard, so it isn't there!

 

5238 is running through a station with at least 4 platforms, which narrows it down to Bridgend or Llantrisant.  A mineral wagon is poking it's end in between the loco and the footbridge, which should tell me something but I cannot even identify if the train is heading in the up or down direction.  But West Park, which looks like a housing development advertised on the board beneath the footbridge, is a clue; there is a West Park in Bridgend with a primary school whose website comes up if you Google it, and there isn't in Llantrisant (or Pontyclun, or Miskin).  This does not preclude Llantrisant, but suggests Bridgend as more likely.  

 

Port Talbot was and still is much more distinctive, recently then rebuilt as an island platform and with an unmistakable steelworks as the backdrop, Pyle had 4 platforms but didn't look like that, and the other stations were all 2 platform one up one down affairs.

 

So, I'm going for Neath and Bridgend...

Edited February 18, 2017 by The Johnster

[Fat Controller]

The shot from the 'Western'-hauled train isn't leaving Swansea- if it were, then Maliphant sidings would be at a lower level, whilst Kilvey Hill would dominate the background.

I've looked at Cooke's Neath to Port Talbot book; the track layout looks as though it could be from just on the Up side of Neath station, looking East. The eastern section of Middle Road was severed sometime between 1955 and 1960, and taken out-of-use at the end of November, 1964. I don't think that's Metal Box, though, as that was a fairly low series of buildings, with northlight roofs, whitewashed with blue detailing. It could be Baglan Engineering (part of the same group as Briton Ferry and Llanelly Steel), or it could be Briton Ferry steel, which had some substantial buildings, and lots of chimneys.

[The Stationmaster]

The lower one is definitely Bridgend - 5238 is on the Up Main Line.

 

The upper one I am inclined to think is almost certainly immediately after leaving Neath General with - as Johnster has said - the middle siding which at one tie extended through to Neath East Signalbox (which is hidden by the D10XX) and was very close to footbridge which can just be made out in the distance.  Very definitely not Briton Ferry as back then there were 4 running lines there and there should be three clearly visible in this photo - plus the factory buildings in the background don't fit for Briton Ferry.

 

Incidentally old maos of various dates show those factory buildings as a chemical works.

Edited February 18, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[BR(W)]

Thank you Mike and The Johnster for the info. Here we have a couple more from 28 August 1963.

 

The first one is taken from a carriage window looking forward while passing a yard between Swansea and Cardiff. The Western Class loco is D1046. Anyone recognise the location?

 

RRA6_10_20170127_0011_800.jpg

 

The second one is an 2-8-0 tank 5238 passing through a station which is between the photo above and Cardiff. Initially I had it down as Cardiff General but on reflection, it hasn't got a footbridge.

 

RRA6_11_20170127_0012_800.jpg

 

Oops, too late, but I agree that the 5205 is at Bridgend on the 'up'; those loudspeakers surely give it away; I always thought that they looked a bit 'end of the world' and should be blasting out martial music interspersed with barked instructions. But that's probably just me.

 

Again, superb images - thank you.

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

[The Border Reiver]

One more from 28 August 1963. 5037 Monmouth Castle in a station siding which I have down as Swansea.

 

[The Johnster]

Swansea High Street right enough, from the 'country' end of the platform looking south.  The bridge parapet behind Monmouth Castle's tender carries the station over the A483 New Cut Road.  

 

These are great shots, Reiver, keep 'em coming!

[The Border Reiver]

We move on to 1964 now. I have this Blue Pullman as passing through, what I have recorded as, Reading station on 12 August 1964

 

Is there any way to tell if it is the Bristol or South Wales Pullman?