Hourly rate for model work. Architectural model.

[Colin_McLeod]

I have just been asked by an Architect to build a model of a bungalow for a client of his.

 

I plan to quote a fixed price for the model and I have costed the materials I need and estimate that there is approximately 40 hours work.

 

I am at a loss as to how much I should include in my calculations for labour. Without giving away any confidential information is there any one here who could please advise me a realistic hourly rate I could charge.

 

Many thanks

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Colin,

 

A difficult question with no easy answers....

 

A rough calculation - without being exact?

 

Look at the time you think it will take - then add another 50% to it.

 

Cost out the materials you will use - then add 50% to it.

 

Take your normal hourly rate - then double it

 

Put the total together and see what you get.

 

Then add 21% to cover the tax

 

Give the total to the person commissioning the model.

 

If they say it's too much

 

Ask them to make you a counter offer

 

See what the difference is between the counter offer and your quoted price.

 

Then it's up to you and your negotiating skills!

 

Hope this helps!

 

Thanks

[chris p bacon]

I have just been asked by an Architect to build a model of a bungalow for a client of his.

 

I plan to quote a fixed price for the model and I have costed the materials I need and estimate that there is approximately 40 hours work.

 

I am at a loss as to how much I should include in my calculations for labour. Without giving away any confidential information is there any one here who could please advise me a realistic hourly rate I could charge.

 

Many thanks

I've often wondered about this since I found myself in an architectural models studio a few years ago.

 

I looked at a building they were making and thought it was about 80-100 hours work and yet they thought 5 hours max. We chatted and they said I thought too much in terms of detail whereas they just went for the overall look. I would say I was very impressed with what they made and they were very successful.

[Colin_McLeod]

 

Take your normal hourly rate -

 

Thanks

Thanks for a helpful and comprehensive reply. The bit I quoted is the difficult bit. What is the normal hourly rate for a modeller?

 

I like the "double it" idea

[chris p bacon]

Thanks for a helpful and comprehensive reply. The bit I quoted is the difficult bit. What is the normal hourly rate for a modeller?

 

I like the "double it" idea

Think of it this way.

 

If you think there are 40 hours work and the hourly rate is £20 (£160 a day) then the model will be £800 + materials, factor in that the architect is probably £3,000 (I've never paid more than this) and I'd be surprised if he would pay that amount for a model.

Mine is on holiday at present (he sent me pics this morning....git) but I could ask when he returns although that would be in 2 weeks time, I would say it's quite some time since I've seen a model in the office since 3D CAD became popular.

[meil]

What you have not defined is "what is a model of a bungalow"?

 

Do you mean what you would expect to see on a good model railway or do you mean what a typical architectural model would look like. These are two entirely different models.

[Arthur]

 

 

I've a railway modelling book published a good while back now, both its name and that of the author escape me but I'll have a look tomorrow.

 

Anyway,

 

The author was a railway modeller and had either an archictural, or architectural modelling, background. He had some interesting and speedy techniques but I didn't find the end results that convincing in a railway modelling context. They were accurate but 'clean' and a bit 'clinical', they lacked the gritty realism we'd expect.

 

As has been said, a 'good' architectural model is different to a 'good' railway model. A key factor seemed to be speedy results at the cost of fine detail.

 

I guess architects want to show their buildings as new and clean, not rain streaked and smoke begrimed.

 

.

[Siberian Snooper]

From my limited view of architectural models, they tend to be lacking in the fine detail we would expect to see on a layout model and it is the extra detail which takes the time and adds to the cost.

[Colin_McLeod]

Thanks for all the replies.

The model will show all external detail in "newly built" condition and will be painted. Thus it will be more like a model railway model than a bland architectural minimum detail model.

 

Chris P Bacon has suggested £20/hr and I await with interest the advice from his friend.

 

Colin

[Scottish Modeller]

Thanks for a helpful and comprehensive reply. The bit I quoted is the difficult bit. What is the normal hourly rate for a modeller?

 

I like the "double it" idea

Hi Colin,

 

I always use my 'Normal Work' hourly rate.

 

In my case tat was gross monthly salary divided by minimum hours worked per month.

 

Thanks

[Colin_McLeod]

Normal salary depends on one's job. (CEO, clerk or something in between).

 

I guess the salary comparator has to be relevant so I will have to research model makers (my OP) or tradesman rates.

[chris p bacon]

Normal salary depends on one's job. (CEO, clerk or something in between).

 

I guess the salary comparator has to be relevant so I will have to research model makers (my OP) or tradesman rates.

I can tell you that for my area (Beds) 

 

With most working a 9 hour day the average is between 17-20 an hour. Included in this though is an amount for materials, as all I know don't charge for small consumables and just include it in their labour.

 

I think instead of calculating it based on anothers figure, try looking at it and thinking how much time is that going to take from me,  How much do I want to replace that time which I'll never get back and what is the least amount I'd accept for that time. 

I have a feeling that what an architect is willing to pay for an architectural model is very different to what any of us would want.

 

Regarding the actual bungalow itself is it a modern finish with zinc, steel & glass or a traditional build?  I ask as it is usually just the large commercial buildings I've seen modelled and that is generally to show mass compared to surroundings.

[Arthur]

 

Good luck with it Colin, sounds like an interesting project and hopefully you can sort out an appropriate rate.

[Tony Teague]

My experience is that top architectural modellers can charge up to about £25 per hour so the numbers you are hearing sound about right.

A key issue is getting your estimate of hours right; it is human nature to underestimate effort required / overestimate what you can get done in a day - its called "optimism bias" in the trade!

I'd suggest that the advice to double whatever you come up with is not far out.

In the end your estimate might depend on whether you want the work, so another approach might be to ask "what is the budget?" - you can then decide whether that justifies the sacrifice of your time.

Hope this helps

 

Tony

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Near ten years ago I produced an architectural model relating to a project in which I had direct involvement, in the 'plain and undetailed' style already mentioned, scaled at 1:50 to directly match the architect's drawings. Although a 3D render was available, the client group expressed a strong preference for a real model to look at. 

 

All in foamboard so roughly £15 retail for the materials, the model roughly two feet a side and a foot tall. Construction took seven hours, spread over two days. Half of the time went on setting out and then cutting out window and door openings, and this building had relatively few considering its size, about 30.

[The White Rabbit]

In my (limited) experience, modelmakers charge anywhere between £10 and £50 per hour. As ever, it's not just about the price. The clients want various things from a modelmaker, whether that's reliability, longevity, robustness, after sales support, 'gimmicks' or anything else. Professional model-makers can charge a high hourly rate but get work because they are highly skilled and know the short-cuts. Others might build models as a retirement activity and charge a comparatively low rate, not necessarily due to a lower skill-set but because they don't depend on it to earn a living. 

 

If I can point a finger at Allan Downes? If you look at his thread in the scenics section, you'll see he produces models very quickly. He knows 'the wrinkles'. If you look at his work, it's to a standard. Because of his skills, knowledge and experience, it's a good standard. Now I scratchbuild in plastic myself, but what takes Allan a day may take me a week. Most of the reason for that is I put more detail in - for example I'll file return courses on my stonework and put in basic interiors. I also spend more time over the painting. Now, I choose to do that when I'm modelling for myself. Whenever I've built things for clients I've worked to a standard, as any modelmaker has to. There is a law of economics called the law of diminishing returns, which basically says after a while, increases in quality of a product take a disproportionate amount of time and effort/skill. So if Allan spends a day on a model, it might be rated at 80%. If he spent a week on it, it may be 95%. Or to get to 100%, a fortnight? But very few clients have wallets fat enough to pay for that sort of investment of time (see previous comments about the budget). And when they are paying for your time, it suddenly becomes very important to plan the project, you can't afford any dead time, so critical path analysis comes into play. No sneaking off for a cup of tea or a walk round the garden every hour! (OK, I used to justify that by calling it concept development time but it looks remarkably like goofing off to the uninitiated). 

 

It's up to the individual but I always separated profit costs and materials, even small consumables, for accounting reasons. 

 

I don't think £20 p/hr plus materials (and any travel) is unreasonable.

 

Would you have to charge tax? If you're under the threshold for VAT, you don't have to charge it and although you may not be able to recover what you're charged (e.g. on materials), the saving on your invoice for your services may make the difference between taking the contract or not. If you don't have a trade account with suppliers for materials and you're doing this as a one-off, I can't see you'd be able to purchase things at much below retail (inc VAT) anyway. 

[allan downes]

I  agree with most of what you say WR and what I do is offer the client options - ie, Backs of buildings fully modelled or left blank. Full interiors, token interiors or no interiors  at all etc, etc.

 

As an example the late Roy England. the founder of Pendon, once told me that it took him two years to build a certain cottage whilst I built a copy of it in a couple of days. The result was an unbelievably inferior copy but - at an unbelievably cheap price when compared to what it would have cost had it took two years to build and, even then, I doubt very much that it would have been a patch on Roy's.

 

In short, and to be able to make a reasonable living at it, you have to build to what I call a 'bread and butter standard' (and sometimes at 50p an hour   ) 

 

Cheers.

 

Allan.

[Pacific231G]

When setting your hourly of daily rate you're up against what the market will bear for the type and standard of work you're doing but, if you intend to make a living or part of your income from it, don't make the common mistake of dividing your expected income by the number of working hours in the week or month and charging that per hour. No self-employed person can charge for for every hour that they're working as there are inevitable down times whether it's getting your van fixed, time spent on marketing yourself, buying stuff, filling in your VAT form etc.  

 

As a sole trader I've generally found VAT registration advantageous because almost all my clients have been  companies that can simply claim it back whilst I can recover VAT on materials, IT, office supplies etc. It would be a very different situation if my clients were private individuals or small non VAT firms as it would then just increase the cost to them by up to 20% (or make me take a hit on whatever I could charge) depending on the proportion of costs down to materials and other suppliers' services.

[Hesperus]

I'm a self employed handyman on £15ph or £100 per 8 hour day (I generally earn more from day work).

 

I have done modelling for money and charge £5ph as it's done in front of the TV on an evening when I'm not doing anything else.

 

I will point out that I'm not brilliant at modelling but my customers have been happy.

[njee20]

I'm surprised at how cheap some of these quotes are frankly!

 

My experience is that top architectural modellers can charge up to about £25 per hour so the numbers you are hearing sound about right.

Surely top modellers (as in those actually doing commercial architectural models) are way more than that? £25/hr is only c£45k pa assuming 35 hours work every week, which is obviously unrealistic. I'd expect 4 times that hourly rate to be nearer the top end.

 

Now, you know the exact set up, the project, the client etc. £20-£25/hour may be reasonable, I'd certainly not call that overcharging assuming a conventional commercial relationship.

[chris p bacon]

I'm surprised at how cheap some of these quotes are frankly!

 

 

Surely top modellers (as in those actually doing commercial architectural models) are way more than that? £25/hr is only c£45k pa assuming 35 hours work every week, which is obviously unrealistic. I'd expect 4 times that hourly rate to be nearer the top end.

 

Now, you know the exact set up, the project, the client etc. £20-£25/hour may be reasonable, I'd certainly not call that overcharging assuming a conventional commercial relationship.

You have to understand that most architectural models are for projects that might not get anywhere, although the returns might look good there is a lot of risk involved and when you're spending money on a project that might go nowhere you don't commission a model that costs as much as the architects drawings.

 

I would ask what the budget is, architects are very good at spending clients money until the client wises up.

[njee20]

No, I get that, even said as much, I just don't believe that professional consultants would charge "up to" £25/hr, I suspect the top end is rather higher. I also suspect they don't work on a time and materials basis. I realise the OP is wuoting fixed price.

 

Whether any of that's relevant here (and I suspect not) is another point.

[bcnPete]

I would ask what the budget is, architects are very good at spending clients money until the client wises up.

Bit of a tired cliche and generalisation that - As an Architect, from my experiences a lot of Clients don't like to commit to an initial budget, asking you to design something, tender it and then commit to what their budget is and can afford - can lead to a lot of abortive work.

 

Having watching this thread evolve with interest, I think the most important thing is for the OP to establish clearly what the brief is - If its to be used for design options it may be that the carcass allows for a removable floorplate.

[Dungrange]

Normal salary depends on one's job. (CEO, clerk or something in between).

 

I guess the salary comparator has to be relevant so I will have to research model makers (my OP) or tradesman rates.

 

Normal salary does depend on your job, but it is still relevant to deciding on your hourly rate for this commission.  In economics, the 'opportunity cost', is the cost of the next best alternative.  In this context, you are going to spend 40 hours working for someone else on a commission.  You could spend that same time doing something else instead (like overtime at work).  If you aren't going to earn more from this commission than you can from your 'day job' then it doesn't really make financial sense to take on the commission because you could earn more by doing something else.  On that basis a CEO would look for a higher rate than a clerk even if they were less skilled, simply because they value their time more highly.

 

However, even if it doesn't pay as much as the 'day job' you could still consider it worthwhile because it is a task that you feel you would enjoy.  In that case the rate that you charge is perhaps less critical, but at the end of the day, you have to feel that what you are paid is adequate compensation for the time you have spent.  That is subjective and personal to you.

 

With regards the rates that are charged, it is important to distinguish between what an individual is paid and what a business is paid for the same thing.  I work in Consultancy and there is huge difference between what I am paid for an hour's work and what my employer charges our clients for my time.  However, although there is a significant mark up on my time, that has to cover significant company overheads including my IT department, accounts, payroll, HR, the office receptionist as well as my expenses including travel costs such as train fares and flights, hotel stays, training courses etc.  Only you know what sort of expenses you have to consider on top of what you actually want to earn.

 

The Average Survey of Hours and Earnings (published by the Office of National Statistics) indicates that in April 2016 the Gross Median full time wage was £539 for a 39.2 hour week, which works out at £13.75 per hour. I'm not sure how you'd class a model maker, but the average person in a 'Skilled Trade occupation' earned just £498 per week, whilst the average employee in an 'Associate Professional and Technical Occupation' earned £593.70 per week.  Assuming the same working week, this works out at closer to £15 per hour.  It wouldn't seem unreasonable to set this as your minimum hourly rate.  If your work is above average, which I'm assuming it is otherwise you wouldn't have been approached, then I think it is fair to consider that you could charge a premium and therefore the £15 - £25 quoted earlier seems reasonable, especially if you are costing overheads separately.

 

If the architect was to commission the model from a company, they may be charged £40 or more per hour, but that will include overheads that you may not have and may be one of the reasons for approaching you in the first place.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[chris p bacon]

Bit of a tired cliche and generalisation that 

And sadly my experience,  I've used the same practice for 16 years commissioning 2 jobs a year,  and costs are not something they tend to worry about. 

 

Agree the OP needs to establish the brief on what detail is required.  

 

As a seperate thought from the clients perspective,  the local planning dept to me doesn't do pre-application advice or negotiation unless it is paid for, so presenting planning with a model would be a charged interview so could be a very costly application.