Third-Rail EMU Photos

[4630]

I'll put this here as it's a potential photo opportunity that some might wish to consider.

 

There're a couple of paths in the system from Strawberry Hill CSD to London Waterloo and return on 27th January.  The rumour mill suggests that it might be 4 Vep 3417 top 'n' tailed by a pair of class 73s and is in connection with Gordon Pettitt's 90th birthday.

 

The information has been posted on another forum and given that this Saturday isn't the 1st April and apparently has been confirmed by an 'industry source', there may well be some truth in it.

 

Paths below for anyone interested;

 

5Z73 Strawberry Hill CSD to London Waterloo

 

5Z74 London Waterloo to Strawberry Hill CSD

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25 by 4630

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, 4630 said:

 The rumour mill suggests that it might be 4 Vep 3417 top 'n' tailed by a pair of class 73s and is in connection with Gordon Pettitt's 90th birthday.

How splendid! He does deserve to be feted like that. Hadn't realised how old he is - but then I'm 75, so he would be. I last saw him at Gare du Nord a few years back, being wheeled to the E*. 

[Gwiwer]

Those who follow “Gordon’s Minions”, the 3417 crew who care for the unit at Strawberry Hill depot, will be aware of a significant increase in activity of late. 
 

Not only the actual restoration work but an awful lot of compliance paperwork. 
 

(42)3417 was also restored to the Rolling Stock Library database a few days ago which allows it to move on NR metals. If all other requirements are met. 

[SR71]

Saw this video earlier today;

 

 

Could I also ask a question at the same time. Does anyone have reference pictures of both sides of a 2-HAL unit? I have seen some from a distance that suggest a corridor with a big window between each of the doors on one side but all the close ups I have found show a door per compartment with 2 windows between doors. Books I have are unclear on the issue...

 

 

Edited January 28 by SR71
Disambiguation

[Gwiwer]

4 hours ago, SR71 said:

both sides of a 2-HAL unit?

The Driving Motor Brake Third (later Second) had compartments with no side corridor therefore both sides had doors at each compartment with small windows either side. 

 

The Driving Trailer Composite had side doors to each compartment on one side but as it had a side corridor connecting all compartments the other side featured large “picture” windows between the doors. These rose to the cantrail and - as with all 2-HAL fixed glazing - had large curved corners. 
 

As you looked at the front of a unit approaching you with the DMBT leading the corridor side would be on your left on the trailing vehicle. 
 

The corridor was instead on the right if we are discussing the “tin” units 2693-2699 or any of the “tin” post-war replacement coaches placed into other units. 2-BIL units also had the corridor on the opposite side to those on a 2-HAL. 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Gwiwer

[Peter Kazmierczak]

A pair of 455s (5858 leading, with 5868 out of shot at the rear) try to brighten-up a very dark, dull and misty Branksome this lunchtime, on a Wimbledon Park to Bournemouth stock move. The grapevine suggests that 5858 might be painted in rail blue/grey... Who knows? 

Edited January 29 by Peter Kazmierczak

[eastwestdivide]

465 meets 375 at Rochester, on services to and from Victoria. 

[Gwiwer]

On 29/01/2024 at 19:51, Peter Kazmierczak said:

The grapevine suggests that 5858 might be painted in rail blue/grey... Who knows? 

The grapevine is seldom wrong.  There are also grapevine whispers of at least one tour planned for this unit once it emerges.  Perhaps SWR has a sense of its own history.  

 

Meanwhile - and especially from around 3m 30s ..... when did you last get Deltic haulage on a  4-COR?  
 

 

[phil_sutters]

A few from a trip to Southampton to use up the last day on my Senior Railcard. 

[phil_sutters]

I didn't have to travel as far for these snaps. I was just depositing some railway magazine back-numbers onto the charity fund-raising book shelves at Seaford station when this rolled into view. Regarded as a local derby match - Seagulls vs Palace - things can get a bit rowdy, particularly at Brighton station.

[SR71]

Having come into Brighton not knowing there was football I can confirm the above. Stood up the hill and with all the chanting and jeering going on I'm waiting for either;

 

A) The musketeers to start volleying fire.

 

Or

 

B) hear the bugal call for a cavalry charge.

[phil_sutters]

I wonder how confusing it is, for people who don't travel in this area south of London, to find a Gatwick Express train turning up to take them from Brighton to Seaford or Eastbourne or to get on a train at Eastbourne thinking 'Oh good. this is a direct train to Gatwick' when it is heading to Brighton or even Ore!.

Edited February 3 by phil_sutters

[Claude_Dreyfus]

A couple of pictures from the 1990s featuring de-icing units. Picture quality is not great as these are scans from prints.

 

First up is 930017 at Eastleigh in about March 1994. It was quite early, and the winter sun was very bright, so not a great photo. That said, I'm glad I managed to get this picture, as it is another of those unrepeatable pictures...

 

 

A few years later, and in a newer livery, 930005 rests at Haslemere. 

[phil_sutters]

12 hours ago, SR71 said:

Having come into Brighton not knowing there was football I can confirm the above. Stood up the hill and with all the chanting and jeering going on I'm waiting for either;

 

A) The musketeers to start volleying fire.

 

Or

 

B) hear the bugal call for a cavalry charge.

Brighton 4 - Palace 1. Palace used to be our local club, but I have always supported (in spirit if not in person) a local club where ever I lived. Bristol Rovers when I lived in Somerset.

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, phil_sutters said:

Brighton 4 - Palace 1. Palace used to be our local club, but I have always supported (in spirit if not in person) a local club where ever I lived. Bristol Rovers when I lived in Somerset.

Dad's former shipmate (Geordies, they had volunteered together days after war was declared) took us to the Goldstone Ground in the early '60s. Brighton must have been in a rough patch, because every time Newcastle scored, a chap along from us stood up, shook his fist at the Directors' box and shouted 'Resign!".

[Gwiwer]

Seagulls supporter here. 
 

Crystal Palace are not just a “local derby”; this is the mother of all grudge matches. RMW is not the place to enter into football politics and rivalries however. 
 

Since Amex Stadium opened there have been capacity issues for home games on trains and buses but on the whole the queues are well managed. 
 

8-car 378 trains replaced 6-car 313 or 8-car 377 trains after the reduction in GatEx requirements. The red units are permanent fixtures now along the east coast. 
 

Not so fortunate are the very many fans who travel from the west side of Brighton. Post-Covid the former 4-6 trains hourly has remained just 2 boosted by two shuttles from Hove connecting into / out of the Victoria - Littlehampton trains. 
 

Most are still only 3- or 4-car trains. BiL travels from Worthing and knows it is pointless trying to board a train there. They arrive already crush-loaded and have many more stops to make, and hopeful passengers to leave behind, before reaching Brighton. 
 

He now uses a privately-chartered coach which only books as many fans as there are seats. 
 

Southern remains somewhat short of drivers but should have ample rolling stock to provide 8-car working on the west coast for major events. They also serve Portsmouth and, to an extent, Southampton football fans at the other end of that route. 
 

Platform length is an issue but not insuperable. Many halts are 4-car length; some bigger stations accommodate less than 8-cars. But to run a single 3-car or 4-car train on what is still a much-reduced timetable at times when large crowds are expected really isn’t up to the required standards. 

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

Platform length is an issue but not insuperable. Many halts are 4-car length; some bigger stations accommodate less than 8-cars. But to run a single 3-car or 4-car train on what is still a much-reduced timetable at times when large crowds are expected really isn’t up to the required standards. 

I'm sure the DfT have decided that based on the average number of people travelling through the week, 3/4-car is quite adequate, so that's alright then.  I long ago concluded that amongst politicians and senior officials in Whitehall, averages are the only mathematical concept they can understand.

[5BarVT]

37 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

I'm sure the DfT have decided that based on the average number of people travelling through the week, 3/4-car is quite adequate, so that's alright then.  I long ago concluded that amongst politicians and senior officials in Whitehall, averages are the only mathematical concept they can understand.

Quite agree.  D(a)fT know they provided sufficient seats - the passengers just chose to travel at the wrong time or in the wrong direction.

Paul.

[Gwiwer]

40 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

D(a)fT know they provided sufficient seats

Largely because people got so hacked-off with overcrowded 313s and being left behind (at some stations with an hour to wait) that they made other arrangements. 
 

Private car traffic along the Sussex coast is sharply up. 

[John M Upton]

2 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Private car traffic along the Sussex coast is sharply up. 

 

Unfortunately, road works along the Sussex Coast is sharply up as well.  There seem to be days when the entire A27 and A259 coastal trunk roads are just one giant car park from Brighton to Chichester!!

 

As for those Gatwick Express 387's, they may be headed to the West Coast at some point (in addition to the one out and back 8 car London Bridge/Littlehampton peak City train) which could be interesting...

Edited February 4 by John M Upton

[John M Upton]

Ssshh, they're sleeping....

Two in the morning down Littlehampton shed - Consecutive numbers too!

[Gwiwer]

2 hours ago, John M Upton said:

There seem to be days when the entire A27 and A259 coastal trunk roads are just one giant car park from Brighton to Chichester!!

Indeed. 
 

And there is a solution to a part of that. 
 

It is called restoring the train service to an attractive level. 
 

All other considerations such as staffing levels, industrial disputes etc, aside I would suggest the following 

 

Half-hourly Victoria - Hove - Littlehampton with Burgess Hill, Hassocks and Preston Park calls omitted and an acceleration of around 10 minutes overall.  Currently this service is hourly Monday-Friday off-peaks. 
 

Half-hourly Brighton - West Worthing all stations pausing at Hove to give (cross-platform if possible) two-way connections into and out of the Londons. 
 

Half hourly semi-fast Brighton, Hove, Shoreham, Worthing, Angmering, Barnham, Chichester, Havant, Fratton, P&S, Portsmouth Harbour. 
 

Hourly Brighton, Hove, Portslade, Southwick, Shoreham, Lancing, Worthing, Littlehampton then all to Portsmouth & Southsea via Littlehampton incorporating current stopper. 
 

Loss of Brighton - Southampton service offset in part by faster service to Havant or Fratton for onward connections. 

 

[John M Upton]

The plan for the West Coast which went out to consultation last year and will probably happen later this year is detailed here:

https://www.southernrailway.com/-/media/goahead/gtr-all-shared-pdfs-and-documents/timetable-consultation-2023/west-coastway-tt-wo-graphics.pdf

 

The existing Southampton/Victoria via the Arun valley becomes a Portsmouth one instead calling all stops between Barnham and Portsmouth (so a half hourly Portsmouth/Vic service but one very slow!)

The existing Brighton - Portsmouth becomes a second Brighton - Southampton

The twice an hour Littlehampton/Victoria via Hove and all the annoying stops up the main to Haywards Heath remains as is.

New service, half hourly Brighton to Chichester all stops via Littlehampton (essentially extending the old half hourly West Worthing all sheds)

 

The Littlehampton/Portsmouth hourly all stops is scrapped, replaced by one of the hourly Victoria/Portsmouth trains calling at all stations Barnham to Portsmouth instead.

 

The main thing is the loss of the direct connections, nothing will run direct between Portsmouth and Brighton and nothing will run direct between Southampton and Gatwick/Victoria so there will be a lot of changing trains at Barnham going on.

 

 

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

The main thing is the loss of the direct connections

And the ongoing absence of anything much beyond an all-stations service. 
 

London - Worthing now takes around 15 minutes longer than it did by steam train 100 years ago. 
 

Brighton - Portsmouth is a logical line of desire and should support a fast service calling only at the main towns. 

[phil_sutters]

10 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Seagulls supporter here. 
 

8-car 378 trains replaced 6-car 313 or 8-car 377 trains after the reduction in GatEx requirements. The red units are permanent fixtures now along the east coast. 
 

 

I guess that the fairly easy interchange at Farringdon off Thameslink and onto the Liz Line must have reduced the Gat Ex demand.