A J52 for Finsbury Square

[31A]

I’m not usually a fan of celebrity locos, but have always had a bit of a soft spot for 68846.  Hornsey’s humble J52 had celebrity status foisted upon it when it was repainted into BR Mixed Traffic livery for an exhibition at Wood Green in September 1958, together with C12 67352.  Sadly the C12 didn’t survive, but 68846 continued in service for a while after the exhibition as shed pilot at “Top Shed” until it was sold to Captain W.G. Smith in May1959, to become the first privately owned preserved loco to be used on the main line.  In model railway fiction, perhaps it was used instead as station pilot at Finsbury Square for a while - after all, Liverpool Street had its blue J69, and York and Newcastle had specially painted pilots as well … 

 

In the past, I’ve tarted up to some extent or other a few Hornby J52s  but never one in BR livery, so when they issued the model as 68846 several years ago I was interested, especially as the application of the BR Mixed Traffic livery was quite impressive.  A few years ago I managed to get hold of a second hand example, and put it to one side to await developments.

 

 

Although the body is basically accurate, I’ve always found the running gear of the Hornby J52 to be a let down, in both performance and appearance, and 68846 was no exception.  In the past I have scratch built new mechanisms for them, but have read more recently of people putting Bachmann 57xx pannier tank mechanisms under them, so I thought I’d give this a try.  Despite the J52 model being slightly compromised to fit the Hornby ‘standard’ 0-6-0 mechanism, the wheelbases are very slightly different.  The 57xx brake shoes are similar to those of the J52, but the brake pull rods are inside on 68846 (some other J52s did have outside pull rods, but these were rebuilds from earlier locos, and also differed in other respects), and the sand boxes were quite different.  Eventually a suitable donor pannier tank presented itself at a Toy Fair.  The mechanism wasn’t particularly clean, but after a strip down and oil round it proved a reliable runner, aided by the sprung middle axle, a feature sadly missing from more recent models.

 

 

 

The first step, then, was to offer up the 57xx mechanism to the J52 body.  The Hornby body breaks down into three component parts, which makes this process much easier.

 

 

I found that, despite a pannier tank and a saddle tank being similar in some respects, the motor was far too wide to fit inside the body as it came.  It is, however, possible to rotate the motor through 90 degrees so that it is upright rather than horizontal.  It was necessary to trim two pips off the base of the motor cradle, and chamfer the edges of the cradle slightly, and then the motor could be clipped back in.  The mechanism was still too wide to fit into the Hornby body, and I had to file about a millimetre from either side of the aperture in the body to get it to fit.  It was also necessary to enlarge the hole in the cab floor and remove some material from the firebox backhead, to allow the chassis block containing the gears to protrude slightly into the cab.

 

The Bachmann mechanism includes a die cast piece representing the bottom of the boiler, and this is also suitable for the J52.  Unfortunately however it only extends back part way between the leading and middle axles, with the rest of the space beneath the boiler being occupied by the motor; consequently I was only able to trim back the ‘skirts’ beneath the tank part of the way, which was a bit of a disappointment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

It works remarkably well doesn't it? From the appearance of your pics, mine has the mechanism set slightly further back, so that neither front or centre wheel is perfectly aligned with the splasher, the positional error 'shared out' between the two. From all viewpoints except side elevation the eye passes over this.

 

I did think about the full 'Iain Rice' treatment of sawing out the underboiler skirt and the splashers, in order to create light under the boiler and the splashers aligned with the (correct!) mechanism wheelbase. But the test assembly of the modded body which just push fits onto the mechanism with no screws required, resulted in victory being declared at that point. Life is too short to stuff mushrooms... Although I must put a piece of masking tape over the hole in the back of the cab, (quality job, spared no expense) that has daylight shining through it in an unexpected location.

[31A]

Yes, it does work very well!  I think the 'go faster' lined out livery with brass beaded splashers perhaps draws attention to the wheelbase discrepancy more than a plain black version would, but I think in the pictures above the body and chassis were only temporarily together - I later removed some more from the cab floor, and got the chassis further back under the body.  I've glued an 'L' shaped bracket with a tapped 8BA hole inside the bunker to make a rear attachment, but as you say it is a push fit really, so I haven't bothered with a front end fastening at all!

[31A]

Moving on then to cosmetic improvements, I started with the mechanism.  As I said, the brake pull rods need to be lost, and the sand boxes aren’t right for a J52 (the front ones are close, but not quite … ).  So I took a razor saw to the keeper plate, and a couple of cuts took all that off:

 

 

But don’t do as I did, otherwise you’ll be wondering where the front brake shoes went, and then be thinking of a way to put them back on … 

 

I then made brass overlays for the front guard irons, and the rear end of the frames (incorporating the guard irons), hopefully to give the frames a bit more of a “Doncaster” appearance.  In each case, I sweated two pieces of brass together and cut the items out as pairs.  To strengthen the joint with the plastic keeper plate, I drilled out holes where the guard iron fixing bolts are in reality, and used these holes as templates to drill corresponding holes in the plastic.  I then soldered pegs of brass wire into the outer of the three holes, and glued these into the holes in the keeper plate; the middle of the three bolts being just a piece of wire glued in - my patience with soldering only goes so far!  As it’s turned out, I could probably have saved myself a lot of work with the rear pieces as the frames are hidden by the rear steps and sand boxes, and the profile isn’t really visible against the keeper plate, anyway.

 

 

Also visible is the balance pipe which runs underneath the boiler, joining the bottom legs of the tank together.  This was made from a piece of 1mm diameter brass rod, retained in place by a split pin through a hole drilled into the lower boiler casting.  I originally thought the ends of this pipe would fit into holes drilled into the underneath of the saddle tank, but this overlooked the need for the mechanism to fit through the gap in the running plate when re-assembling, so I had to chamfer off the ends of the pipe flush with the die casting, and then add 'stubs' under the tank, attached to the body.  

This picture also shows that I’ve ‘lost’ the DCC-ready electronic gubbins; the PCB would have fitted, but I managed to break one of the feed wires off with all this man handling, and thought it would be simpler just to get the superfluous electronic stuff out of the way!

 

[31A]

Turning to detailing the body, I referred once again to the article by Allan Sibley in MRJ 35, and followed a lot of what he wrote.  This article also contains a useful drawing.  One thing he doesn’t cover, though, and I think makes quite a difference, is the smokebox door.  The Hornby one seems quite the wrong shape, with the ‘dished’ part too small and an over-wide flat rim as part of the smokebox door moulding, as well as a representation of the edge of the fixed rim on the actual body moulding.

 

Luckily, the scrap box contained a Craftsman Models casting described as ‘Great Northern smoke box door’, I suspect originally part of their C12 kit but of quite a suitable size and shape for a J52. The moulded door just pushes out, and then I welded two strips of 20 thou plastikard to the inside of the smokebox itself.  These are just to locate the casting, and don’t need to be too neat.  A piece of 20 thou square micro strip was then curved into a circle and glued into the recess around the edge of the smokebox door opening; this represents the fixed ring that the door closes against.  This picture also shows the front chassis fixing lug holes filled in with styrene.

 

 

The rest of the detailing was quite straightforward.  The Hornby body has quite neat wire handrails (including beside the cab entrances which wasn’t the case with earlier versions of the model); however the knobs are quite chunky by present day standards so I chose to replace them with Alan Gibson short brass knobs.  I could have re-used the original wire, which is nicely blackened, but only realised this when I came to the cab handrails, which made painting in proximity to the lining easier, anyway!  The moulded grab handle on top of the tank was pared off and replaced with a brass one, and another similar added on the right hand side of the cab roof.  The steps on the bunker side are not present on the Hornby model, but I thought they ought to be there.  Brass angle would probably have been neater but in view of their vulnerability I thought plastic ones could be bonded more robustly to the plastic body, so I made these by cutting down a section of Evergreen styrene angle and then thinning it down as much as I dared.  The front steps are from brass etch scrap soldered to 0.7mm wire.  The front sand boxes were thickened up with layers of 60 thou plastikard, and sand pipes made from 0.9mm wire.  The rear ones are modelled in low relief on the Hornby body, and their shape isn't really clear from the drawing or photos, so I used the low relief representations as a template for new ones, again from layers of 60 thou plastikard.  The rodding running above the splashers and round under the smokebox door is the control rod for the front sanders; I was in two minds whether to make this or not.  Allan Sibley used strip from etch scrap and Alan Gibson long handrail knobs with the heads cut off for the pillars.  I didn’t have any suitable strip, and didn’t fancy waving a soldering iron around in front of the plastic, so I used the handrail knobs complete, with 0.45mm wire for the rodding, albeit filed flat on the outside face.  The chimney is slightly tall and Allan cut his down using a hacksaw (the thickness of the blade being the difference in height), the glued the top back on - I found a piece off plastic rod (knitting needle) that was a tight fit inside to reinforce the join.  I didn't however, cut down the dome, which seems about right.

 

Hornby have very neatly lined out the rear of the bunker; however pictures of the real loco in BR service, and as now preserved, show the back of the bunker was unlined, so perhaps Hornby’s designers got a bit carried away!  Anyway, this makes the job of filling the hole in the back of the bunker (and the recess above it) much easier.  I also filled in the spaces between the coal rails with 10 thou plastikard, to represent the plating that was applied to the real thing.  Lamp irons front and rear are from flattened staples, and vacuum pipes from MJT.  The original sprung buffers are quite nice, and the bodies include the fixing bolts round the base, but the heads have a step part way along the shank that makes them look like Oleos or similar.  I found some steel buffer heads, and opened out the plastic buffer bodies to accept them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Flyingscotsmanfan]

That looks amazing so far... makes me want to do it to my my own J52 as I've never been happy with the running from it.

[31A]

Now substantially complete, a broadside view similar to the one published in “On Great Northern Lines” by Derek Huntriss:

 

 

This shows the discrepancies in the wheelbase.  According to the drawing in MRJ 35, the leading axle should be 22mm behind the front buffer beam; in fact (as closely as I can measure), the centre of the leading splasher is 24mm behind.  The wheelbase of the real engines is given as 7’ 3” (29mm) + 8’ 3” (33mm) = 15’ 6” (62mm).  The distance between the front and middle splashers is more like 32mm, whilst the distance between the axles on the Bachmann mechanism is 29mm + 33mm, i.e. the correct wheelbase.  So unless you’re prepared to move the leading splashers, there’s always going to be a compromise.  However I think I can live with it!  From angles other than a direct side view, hopefully the discrepancy isn’t too obvious.  Also, the wheels shouldn’t have balance weights, and while the rods are correctly plain rather than fluted, they are also slightly fishbellied rather than being straight sided.

 

The earlier pictures show that I’d removed the printed BR crests from the saddle tank.  Although Hornby have done a good job of printing the livery elements, pictures of the real engine show that the BR crests were clear below the tank side handrail.  The smallest BR crest on the HMRS Methfix sheet was definitely smaller than the printed one so I substituted two of these; however despite being smaller I still couldn’t quite get them below the handrails!  This did also gave the opportunity to have both crests facing forward as per pictures of the real loco, whereas Hornby had printed left facing lions on both sides.

 

 

 

 

The picture referred to above shows the real loco whilst in service as King’s Cross shed pilot; it looks as though the top of the saddle tank, and the cab roof, weren’t always kept spotless during this time, and I’ve tried to reflect this condition in my painting of the model.  Despite being reallocated from Hornsey to King’s Cross for it’s last few months on BR, 68846 doesn’t seem to have lost its 34B shed plate, and I was able to get an etched one from 247 Developments at the York Show for the model’s smokebox.  I couldn’t get an etched number plate however, so for the moment it carries a printed paper one from Pacific Models.  The smokebox door handle is a neat three part item from London Road Models, and as well as soldering it together I’ve tinned the parts to make them look like unpainted steel; I’ve also scraped the paint off the smokebox door hinge straps, as these items seem to have been kept burnished whilst in BR use.

 

So in conclusion, a worthwhile exercise in improving both the performance and appearance of a model, which is fundamentally pretty accurate in most respects despite the wheelbase discrepancy, and the lack of daylight beneath the boiler; a project which was a bit different for me and one I’ve enjoyed carrying out!

 

[Dominion]

I wanted to improve the running of my J52 as well, inspired by the projects by 31A and 34theletterbetweenB&D.

I didn’t have a 57xx chassis to try.

I did have a spare Hornby J15 chassis though, so I decided to try that instead. 
the wheel spacing and size are not quite right but the running is improved no end.

 

I also removed a little of the body moulding between the front 2 splashers to try to take advantage of the daylight through the Hornby J15 chassis there. 

[31A]

That's very ingenious!  The Hornby J15 chassis must be one of the best RTR mechanisms I know of for smooth slow running, I'm sure it'd be great for a shunting engine.  Also, you've ended up with much more daylight under the boiler than I did.  The wheelbase doesn't seem to be very far out!

 

Sorry the pictures are missing from my original thread; I'm not sure I can replace them.

[Dominion]

Thank you. It needed weight added as the Hornby J15 weight is in the body. I think it is a tad high at the back, I can remove a bit of the packing there when I add more weight. 
 

The J15 wheelbase is longer than a J52 should be, like the Original Hornby one.  But the spacing of the front axles is between what it should be for a J52 and the stretched nature of the Hornby body, so in a way I think it is a reasonable compromise.

 

Tom

[DCB]

It's always a difficult  choice between having the correct wheelbase or having the splashers in line on these stretched Hornby bodies  and body kits to fit Hornby chassis.   The Hornby generic chassis is correct WB between middle and rear axles and 3mm too long from middle to front.  You can re drill the front axle hole on many of the older chassis and use Mainline/ Bachmann coupling rods for the correct 7ft 3" + 8ft 3" WB       The Hornby chassis 8ft + 8ft 3" chassis  isn't right for any loco I know of, not even the Jinty.

[31A]

Thanks both.  I quite like the idea of doing up another J52 sometime, and Hornby J15s can sometimes be got quite cheaply, so I may look into that idea.

 

In the meantime, as all my pictures of 68846 have disappeared, here's a couple so that anyone reading the thread can at least see what it turned out like!

 

 

[Miss Prism]

The mixed-traffic livery was presumably a rarity on a J52?

 

[Steamport Southport]

8 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

The mixed-traffic livery was presumably a rarity on a J52?

 

 

ISTR a handful got it as they were station pilots.

 

Now preserved 68846 definitely did.

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=93395&category_id=65&page=2443

 

 

Jason

[Mallard60022]

On 20/11/2022 at 10:12, 31A said:

Thanks both.  I quite like the idea of doing up another J52 sometime, and Hornby J15s can sometimes be got quite cheaply, so I may look into that idea.

 

In the meantime, as all my pictures of 68846 have disappeared, here's a couple so that anyone reading the thread can at least see what it turned out like!

 

 

If F Square merits a Station Pilot and that is the J52, then why not make it a 'Pet' as those at Liverpool Street? Pimp it up totally!

Phil

[Steamport Southport]

Decent little model the J52. No stretching occurred just that the wheel spacings are a bit out. Easily cured with the Mainly Trains chassis and detailing kit.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/mt106s/

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/mt107/

 

 

Of its time of course and probably time for a new one.

 

 

Jason

[Dominion]

I was imprecise. I was referring to the stretched distance between the wheel splashes on the Hornby body. 

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, Dominion said:

I was imprecise. I was referring to the stretched distance between the wheel splashes on the Hornby body. 

 

It wasn't your comment I was referring to.

 

A post above says the body was stretched; it wasn't.

 

 

Jason

[31A]

5 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

If F Square merits a Station Pilot and that is the J52, then why not make it a 'Pet' as those at Liverpool Street? Pimp it up totally!

Phil

That's what it is!

[Mallard60022]

1 minute ago, 31A said:

That's what it is!

That's pimped? Lovely, but not totally Pimped.

This is pimped: utterly outrageous.

Go on Steve, you know you want to. Look at that burnishing and shiny, shiny look.

[Mallard60022]

I could even let you have one of these to Pimp if you fancy a laugh? Totally redundant in my box of totally redundant Diseasels.

P

[31A]

7 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

The mixed-traffic livery was presumably a rarity on a J52?

 

 

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

ISTR a handful got it as they were station pilots.

 

Now preserved 68846 definitely did.

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=93395&category_id=65&page=2443

 

 

Jason

 

68846 was the only one painted in BR Mixed Traffic livery.

 

It was painted thus in September 1958 for display at Noel Park goods yard (in Wood Green, on the ex GE Palace Gates branch) at an exhibition to mark the 750th Anniversary of the granting of a Charter to the Borough of Wood Green.  C12 67352 was also painted up for the exhibition, but whereas that was withdrawn afterwards, 68846 carried on being used, in the special livery, as a shed shunter at King's Cross MPD until it was sold to Captain W. G. Smith for preservation in May 1959.

 

In Finsbury Square's parallel universe, it is used on my layout as one of the station pilots, in the way that Liverpool St. had their GE Blue J69 and York and Newcastle had NE Green J72s as pilots.

 

[31A]

13 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

That's pimped? Lovely, but not totally Pimped.

This is pimped: utterly outrageous.

Go on Steve, you know you want to. Look at that burnishing and shiny, shiny look.

 

Well it's got it's unique livery, and the smokebox door handles and hinge straps are polished up, as are the buffer heads and the brass beadings on the splashers, and the injectors are cleaned up - I think that's quite ostentatious enough for the GN really!

 

I tinned the brass smokebox door handles with solder to look like polished steel and scraped the hinge straps back to bare whitemetal, then varnished them so they wouldn't tarnish.

 

[Mallard60022]

5 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Well it's got it's unique livery, and the smokebox door handles and hinge straps are polished up, as are the buffer heads and the brass beadings on the splashers, and the injectors are cleaned up - I think that's quite ostentatious enough for the GN really!

 

I tinned the brass smokebox door handles with solder to look like polished steel and scraped the hinge straps back to bare whitemetal, then varnished them so they wouldn't tarnish.

 

I'm sorry to have dissed your excellent work. I was being naughty as always. Diesel is a real offer though.

P 

[31A]

5 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I'm sorry to have dissed your excellent work. I was being naughty as always. Diesel is a real offer though.

P 

 

This is one of the other Finsbury Square station pilots:

 

 

The other two locos in the Pilot Link are a mucky J50 and almost equally mucky 350HP Diesel, so I won't show you them!