Smart Meter = smart move?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Most simply by pricing. Make it more attractive to put your washing machine on at any other time than tea time...

 It will work to an extent, but where there's urgent necessity the appliance will be used when required. The need to wash and dry the four or five million kid's sports kit at tea time Monday to Friday is a rather pressing one, as those who remember the stink of teenager's sports kit bags will attest.

[kevinlms]

Most simply by pricing. Make it more attractive to put your washing machine on at any other time than tea time.

Freezer is an example where the smart meter could be smarter. Your freezer could turn itself off at times of high demand. Likewise your washing machine could wait for cheap electricity before turning itself on.

Also domestic storage, but that doesn't really pay for itself at the moment. certainly not without solar as well.

Perhaps one day, washing machines won't turn on until electricity prices are cheaper, but what about the zillions of them out there, which simply turn on when the owner presses the button? Almost no one is going to rush out and replace a perfectly good one, until they need to, unless a significant saving.

[Guest]

Perhaps one day, washing machines won't turn on until electricity prices are cheaper, but what about the zillions of them out there, which simply turn on when the owner presses the button? Almost no one is going to rush out and replace a perfectly good one, until they need to, unless a significant saving.

 

Very few are built to last more than a couple of years these days anyway. Which is terribly wasteful in itself.

We bought a Miele about fifteen years ago and it's still going strong. Eye wateringly expensive though.

[JJGraphics]

Very few are built to last more than a couple of years these days anyway. Which is terribly wasteful in itself.

We bought a Miele about fifteen years ago and it's still going strong. Eye wateringly expensive though.

 

 

A bit O/T, but our previous Bosch Washer/Dryer lasted over thirteen years; the current Bosch one is nearly seven years old. My oldest daughter is now on her sixth washing machine over the same period which has cost her almost 30% more than ours have . . . our two families wash a very similar amount each week.

 

John

Edited August 1, 2018 by JJGraphics

[Torper]

Very few are built to last more than a couple of years these days anyway. Which is terribly wasteful in itself.

 

I think that thay may be an urban myth.  Personally i find that most of our modern machines, whether the car, washing machine, computer, TV or whatver, tend to last longer than they used to.  It seems to me that a large number of people get rid of perfectly good equipment for no better reason that fashion or advertising pressure.

 

DT

[kevinlms]

I think that thay may be an urban myth.  Personally i find that most of our modern machines, whether the car, washing machine, computer, TV or whatver, tend to last longer than they used to.  It seems to me that a large number of people get rid of perfectly good equipment for no better reason that fashion or advertising pressure.

 

DT

I agree with much of that, as long as you avoid, the really bottom end of the market.

 

Our washing machine is a Samsung, about 4 years old and I wouldn't pay the money for a Miele, it seems far too much.

 

Since so many seem to be rubbish, what's the point of buying one that will only tun itself on at times of when power is cheaper? It seems counterproductive.

[Nick C]

The whole concept that people will switch to using appliances when the power is cheaper is flawed anyway, as most people don't have a choice.

 

Take the washing machines mentioned above for example. We generally run ours on a Saturday morning, so we can then hang the washing out to dry all day (while we've still got reasonable weather!)

 

How is telling me to run it at a different time going to help? I can only run it when I'm going to be there to take the washing out when it's done! I'm not going to run it at 3am, only for the washing to sit there wet for several hours, at which point it will stink and will need washing again...

 

Similarly with the oven. I'm not going to cook my dinner at 3am, for the simple reason that I need it to be hot at dinner time! 

 

(Ok, so the dishwasher probably could run overnight, but even with that, quite a few things need to be removed as soon as it's finished to avoid tarnishing...)

 

We are going to have a massive shortage of electricity in the next 5-10 years time, as the existing coal plants come to the end of their lives, and nothing is being built to replace them. The industry has to do something to alleviate this, and we, the consumers, will be the losers...

[Guest]

We are going to have a massive shortage of electricity in the next 5-10 years time, as the existing coal plants come to the end of their lives, and nothing is being built to replace them. The industry has to do something to alleviate this, and we, the consumers, will be the losers...

 

Right now 0% of UK electricity is being generated by coal.

[melmerby]

  No payment = no service.

You've missed part out. They cannot by law just cut off supply, whatever the reason.

No payment = Court Order, Court order = No Service

 

If it gets cut off before a Court Order has been issued, I could see compensation being given for the disruption in service and I cannot see energy companies wanting to get themselves into that position.

 

Keith

Edited August 1, 2018 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Right now 0% of UK electricity is being generated by coal.

Coal is just a stand by resource these days.

 

Keith

[JJGraphics]

You've missed part out. They cannot by law just cut off supply, whatever the reason.

No payment = Court Order, Court order = No Service

 

If it gets cut off before a Court Order has been issued, I could see compensation being given for the disruption in service and I cannot see energy companies wanting to get themselves into that position.

 

Keith

 

 

Agreed . . . but some idiot will inevitably overstep the mark or simply push the wrong button and there could be serious consequences for the person who wrongly loses their supply, perhaps someone old and infirm who could freeze to death.

 

I believe that even having the capability of switching off the supply at the push of a key on a computer in some distant office is a very dangerous thing indeed.

 

John

Edited August 1, 2018 by JJGraphics

[royaloak]

I think that thay may be an urban myth.  Personally i find that most of our modern machines, whether the car, washing machine, computer, TV or whatver, tend to last longer than they used to.  It seems to me that a large number of people get rid of perfectly good equipment for no better reason that fashion or advertising pressure.

 

DT

Or it requires a very cheap repair which the owner would have done 'back in the day' but now with the lack of knowledge it is deemed cheaper to scrap it ad buy a new one instead of getting a man in.

 

I have bought very cheap 'scrap' cars and returned them to the road for much less than £100 using nothing more than an ordinary box full of tools and a little knowledge, I also have friends that dont even check their oil, water or tyre pressures, as for servicing the car, why would they need to if its still running!  .

Edited August 1, 2018 by royaloak

[Nick C]

Right now 0% of UK electricity is being generated by coal.

 

So it isn't - though demand is pretty low at the moment (33GW) - what will happen the first winter we don't have the coal plants available? Also the biggest share at the moment is Gas, which isn't much better from an environmental point of view...

 

Agreed . . . but some idiot will inevitably overstep the mark or simply push the wrong button and there could be serious consequences for the person who wrongly loses their supply, perhaps someone old and infirm who could freeze to death.

 

I believe that even having the capability of switching off the supply at the push of a key on a computer in some distant office is a very dangerous thing indeed.

 

John

 

Or more scarily - someone who relies on electrically-powered medical devices (not all are in hospitals) - you'd hope they'd have some kind of back-up, but I suspect many don't...

[Guest]

I believe that even having the capability of switching off the supply at the push of a key on a computer in some distant office is a very dangerous thing indeed.

 

More so if that office is in Russia

[Metr0Land]

 I also have friends that dont even check their oil, water or tyre pressures, as for servicing the car, why would they need to if its still running!  .

 

In my day they were called 'reps' - maybe they still are?

[chris p bacon]

Agreed . . . but some idiot will inevitably overstep the mark or simply push the wrong button and there could be serious consequences for the person who wrongly loses their supply, perhaps someone old and infirm who could freeze to death.

 

I believe that even having the capability of switching off the supply at the push of a key on a computer in some distant office is a very dangerous thing indeed.

 

John

 

Nothing like urban myths to scare the bejesus out of people.

 

The reality is that The service companies will bend over backwards to not cut someone off, as the process for them is long and expensive. To imply they would have and use the capability to cut off someone without  any prior warning shows a lack of understanding of how they work and the people that work within them.

 

Or more scarily - someone who relies on electrically-powered medical devices (not all are in hospitals) - you'd hope they'd have some kind of back-up, but I suspect many don't...

 

 

 

 

Anyone with home medical equipment that requires a constant power source should have a battery back up, as outside of the hospital environment domestic power supplies cannot be guaranteed due to weather and other variables.

[jjb1970]

Very few are built to last more than a couple of years these days anyway. Which is terribly wasteful in itself.

We bought a Miele about fifteen years ago and it's still going strong. Eye wateringly expensive though.

 

Miele white goods are expensive but they are one of the few premium brands that really are made to a superior standard, there is genuine substance and not just the same old same old inside an expensive suit. I also bought Miele washing machine, tumble dryer and fridge/freezer about 15 years ago and they're all still rock solid with no signs of deterioration.

[jjb1970]

So it isn't - though demand is pretty low at the moment (33GW) - what will happen the first winter we don't have the coal plants available? Also the biggest share at the moment is Gas, which isn't much better from an environmental point of view...

 

 

Or more scarily - someone who relies on electrically-powered medical devices (not all are in hospitals) - you'd hope they'd have some kind of back-up, but I suspect many don't...

 

 

That's not really true, the carbon factor of natural gas is much lower than that of coal (which after all is pretty much just carbon) and CCGT plants are a lot more efficient than coal plants (not to mention not needing constant coal trains, bulk carriers shipping coal around the world, disposal of bottom ash, fly ash etc etc). The uncertainty is the amount of fugitive methane emissions, but that's an argument for keeping the gas system tight and most analysis seems to agree that fugitive methane emissions come nowhere close to wiping out the lower carbon factor. Not to mention the exhaust is far cleaner meaning you don't need as much emissions abatement equipment.

[BoD]

I'm sure that if people moved their power consumption to cheaper off peak times, the tariffs would soon be adjusted to compensate. Profits have to be maintained, don't you know.

 

Cynic? Moi?

[Metr0Land]

I'm sure that if people moved their power consumption to cheaper off peak times, the tariffs would soon be adjusted to compensate. Profits have to be maintained, don't you know.

 

Cynic? Moi?

 

Indeed, a few years ago BT phone charges were higher something like 9am-6pm M-F. As more and more people waited until after 6pm for those chats that could wait, BT quietly changed the band to 9am-7pm, so offpeak started later. I believe others followed suit.

[Guest]

Indeed, a few years ago BT phone charges were higher something like 9am-6pm M-F. As more and more people waited until after 6pm for those chats that could wait, BT quietly changed the band to 9am-7pm, so offpeak started later. I believe others followed suit.

 

That's not the same thing though. Electricity supply is a finite resource. That BT pricing was artificial. I now pay £15 and get unlimited calls and texts on my mobile.

If I could do that with unlimited electricity I definitely would.

[Metr0Land]

I would contend that the prices of electricity, gas and oil are equally artificial to some extent.  We all know that when the costs of the commodity rises dramatically then the price rises will soon follow.  When the cost falls.......  As per #345 maintenance of profits is the goal.

[PatB]

That's not the same thing though. Electricity supply is a finite resource. That BT pricing was artificial. I now pay £15 and get unlimited calls and texts on my mobile.

If I could do that with unlimited electricity I definitely would.

 

    

[Fat Controller]

Indeed, a few years ago BT phone charges were higher something like 9am-6pm M-F. As more and more people waited until after 6pm for those chats that could wait, BT quietly changed the band to 9am-7pm, so offpeak started later. I believe others followed suit.

'The cheapest time to 'phone your friends

Is after six and at weekends'

[PatB]

'The cheapest time to 'phone your friends

Is after six and at weekends when they're out'

 

FTFY