Smart Meter = smart move?

[Gareth Collier]

We've been trying to sort my father in laws finances following the death of my mother in law at the end of last October as he's struggling. We were stunned to see he was paying Scottish Power over £150 a month for combined gas and electricity and he was still in debt and it was due to increase again.

After a brief investigation of his meter readings he is now using over 1000% (one thousand) more gas each period than a year ago so what has happened? Easy, he had a smart meter installed at their insistence last summer then everything started sky rocketing. Obviously something is wrong so over an hour was wasted on the phone to SW's "customer service" department. The meter says that's how much gas has been used so it must be correct. If we hadn't been in on the phone conversation I am sure they would have just fobbed him off. As it is the best they can do is reluctantly send out an engineer in approx 2 weeks time to see if the meter is calibrated correctly who will report back to them and they will then contact us. 

We can't even ditch the smart meter as it's the only proof that something is wrong. With their attitude I can see the ombudsman on the horizon.

[boxbrownie]

37 minutes ago, Gareth Collier said:

We've been trying to sort my father in laws finances following the death of my mother in law at the end of last October as he's struggling. We were stunned to see he was paying Scottish Power over £150 a month for combined gas and electricity and he was still in debt and it was due to increase again.

After a brief investigation of his meter readings he is now using over 1000% (one thousand) more gas each period than a year ago so what has happened? Easy, he had a smart meter installed at their insistence last summer then everything started sky rocketing. Obviously something is wrong so over an hour was wasted on the phone to SW's "customer service" department. The meter says that's how much gas has been used so it must be correct. If we hadn't been in on the phone conversation I am sure they would have just fobbed him off. As it is the best they can do is reluctantly send out an engineer in approx 2 weeks time to see if the meter is calibrated correctly who will report back to them and they will then contact us. 

We can't even ditch the smart meter as it's the only proof that something is wrong. With their attitude I can see the ombudsman on the horizon.

If the electric is also in error buy an induction consumption meter to monitor the KWh being used your self.....one of these, if it’s just the gas I don’t think there is anything you can do but rely on the supplier to check it.

[Gareth Collier]

15 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

If the electric is also in error buy an induction consumption meter to monitor the KWh being used your self.....one of these, if it’s just the gas I don’t think there is anything you can do but rely on the supplier to check it.

Just the gas unfortunately.

[class27]

If you get nowhere with this, you should be able to get the meter sent for official test. This is carried out independently from the supplier. You will have to pay for the test, but if the meter is indeed faulty you will be refunded. I worked in the industry for over 35 years and this was always an option for end users/ customers. 

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

We've been trying to sort my father in laws finances following the death of my mother in law at the end of last October as he's struggling. We were stunned to see he was paying Scottish Power over £150 a month for combined gas and electricity and he was still in debt and it was due to increase again.

After a brief investigation of his meter readings he is now using over 1000% (one thousand) more gas each period than a year ago so what has happened? Easy, he had a smart meter installed at their insistence last summer then everything started sky rocketing. Obviously something is wrong so over an hour was wasted on the phone to SW's "customer service" department. The meter says that's how much gas has been used so it must be correct. If we hadn't been in on the phone conversation I am sure they would have just fobbed him off. As it is the best they can do is reluctantly send out an engineer in approx 2 weeks time to see if the meter is calibrated correctly who will report back to them and they will then contact us. 

We can't even ditch the smart meter as it's the only proof that something is wrong. With their attitude I can see the ombudsman on the horizon.

 

Gareth

 

I had a similar but opposite problem a year ago. I had a smart meter installed in the autumn, but in winter despite my central heating being fully on I was using less gas than in the summer. I started to enquire then had to complain to get this investigated, The gas supplier still was adamant and so was the gas engineer that the system was working correctly, it was only after he rechecked the meter half an hour later he noticed the reading had not changed, despite the heating being fully on

 

When the smart meter was fitted both gas and electric meters were changed, the gas meter talks to the electric meter which then sends the reading over the mobile phone system every 30 mins, now all 3 were talking to each other as they should, so gave the impression all was OK, but what these very bright people failed to realise the gas meter was faulty in that it only registered a small fraction of the gas we used.

 

The engineer said these meters never go wrong, well I clearly disproved this theory. I guess one of the meters are calculating an incorrect use of either gas or electricity. Simply compare the units used before the meters were changed to the new readings. If there is a major change year on year, one of meters is likely to be faulty

 

PM me if you want further details

Edited March 20, 2021 by hayfield

[hayfield]

In my case it was the energy suppliers bling belief that the machines/system are fail proof which is not the case.

 

The system firstly relies that the meters are reading the gas or electricity accurately !! The first question is how accurate and reliable are they?

 

Then in my case the smart part of the system is on the electric meter, firstly it relies on the gas meter talking to it, then both readings are sent via the mobile phone system

 

It transpired that all they check on smart meters is whether the consumer unit is talking to the energy company

 

Anybody with a limited amount of inelegance would look at currant usage against historic usage, any variation other than small ones after a meter exchange should be monitored. in my case I was using a fraction of the gas in mid winter than in the summer, they dropped my payments by well over half automatically.

 

When I questioned the supplier they said the system was working correctly, the telemetry was working. But when I said my gas usage in winter was now less than in the summer, this never started alarm bells. As I said even the engineer stated nothing was wrong to start off with

 

The energy suppliers staff have an unmoving belief their equipment is failproof. It is not a simple comparison between old and new readings should set alarm bells ringing, if it varies greatly either up or down

 

The big question is how many of these meters are faulty and or exactly how accurate are they ?

 

Certainly if your bills rise start asking questions and do not be fobbed off by staff who clearly do not know what they are talking about. Their equipment can and does go wrong, but how can we check what is being registered is an accurate record of what we have used ?

[boxbrownie]

10 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Certainly if your bills rise start asking questions and do not be fobbed off by staff who clearly do not know what they are talking about. Their equipment can and does go wrong, but how can we check what is being registered is an accurate record of what we have used ?

Unfortunately most likely the staff spoken to on the helpline were working at Debenhams/House of Fraser a few weeks/months ago.......no knowledge that isn’t included in the scripted answer book in front of them.

Edited March 21, 2021 by boxbrownie

[hayfield]

Just now, boxbrownie said:

Unfortunately most likely the staff spoken to on the helpline were working at Debenhams/House of Fraser a few weeks/months ago.......no knowledge that isn’t included in the scripted answer book in front of them.

 

Yes but the fault lies further up the management chain, plus it must be in the companies interest to have a security system to spot a change in activity. A simple stand back and check the facts

 

When gas usage drops (or increases in the OP's case) significantly especially after a meter change their should be an automatic check, certainly when someone phones up they should be listened to

[boxbrownie]

8 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Yes but the fault lies further up the management chain, plus it must be in the companies interest to have a security system to spot a change in activity. A simple stand back and check the facts

 

When gas usage drops (or increases in the OP's case) significantly especially after a meter change their should be an automatic check, certainly when someone phones up they should be listened to

Agree, we get some odd readings (estimated even after sending a reading in) from E-on......we changed to Pure Planet in January but are still getting bills from E-on......useless company.

[Michael Hodgson]

It is of course possible that a substantial apparent increase in consumption is caused not by a faulty new meter over-reading, but by a faulty old meter under-reading.  I too suspect the new technology, but the only way to tell for sure is get the meters checked.

 

Many years ago I had an old-style meter that failed - two consecutive readings were almost the same.  I came home one day to find the Electricity Board had replaced it with a new (old-style) meter and plastered it with "Do not tamper" stickers whilst I was at work.  Seems reasonable, apart from the implication that I had been fiddling with it.  I'm still using it. 

 

I understand there is some industry standard under which they are supposed to replace meters every 20 or 30 years.

[Jonboy]

Had fun and games at work when they replaced the old style meter with another one (circa2008) and it failed with a dead digital display 18 months in. They insisted on a process of monitoring the next three months usage to calculate bill, rather than previous readings...as the meter failed in early November I had a big negotiation with them as I wasn’t prepared to let them use winter readings to calculate an autumn bill.

 

We got there eventually but it was initially like pulling teeth to explain the issue with their proposed solution.

 

 

When the facility closed I also rang them on the final day with the final reading, having checked it in the landlords presence (they had a handover checklist) and promptly got an estimated final bill for 1000+ units more. That took a couple of phone calls and emailing photos of the meter reading to resolve.

[hayfield]

14 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

Had fun and games at work when they replaced the old style meter with another one (circa2008) and it failed with a dead digital display 18 months in. They insisted on a process of monitoring the next three months usage to calculate bill, rather than previous readings...as the meter failed in early November I had a big negotiation with them as I wasn’t prepared to let them use winter readings to calculate an autumn bill.

 

We got there eventually but it was initially like pulling teeth to explain the issue with their proposed solution.

 

 

When the facility closed I also rang them on the final day with the final reading, having checked it in the landlords presence (they had a handover checklist) and promptly got an estimated final bill for 1000+ units more. That took a couple of phone calls and emailing photos of the meter reading to resolve.

Why do they make it so hard for us customers ?

 

20 plus years ago the company I worked for designed a new computer sales system, I was one of 12 salesmen on a user group right from the start. The first year was just planning every step on paper what was needed and how it could work in the field. I think they called the process abject orientation or similar. The possibility of a faulty meter would have been picked up right at the start and I think looked for within the process. They look for sudden spikes in energy use now for cannabis farms, but I guess this if for electricity not gas and sudden drops in use may be common if houses are left empty, but this would mean both services would have to drop. Poor software planning and over reliance on their meters

[Wheatley]

I've been with SSE for gas and electric for years, absolutely no problems and, unlike BG, they answer the phone in less than 20 minutes. When they do answer it's a call centre in Glasgow or Cardiff. 

 

Then they got taken over by Ovo. Gordon Bennet. 

 

At the start of the pandemic they stopped sending meter readers out. Shortly afterwards I got a text to send them my meter readings, which I did. Then I got a phone call from somewhere which was certainly not Glasgow or Cardiff a couple of days later asking for a meter reading, which I gave them (same reading). Seven days and seven phone calls from them  later they eventually gave up ringing when I flatly refused to give them any more readings. On every occasion when I asked them to check my account they could see the readings I'd sent !

 

A fortnight later we got an estimated bill for less than the readings I gave them, at which point I gave up. 

 

Now we are getting weekly letters tellling us the meters need changing for a smart meter because they 'might' be inaccurate, a conventional meter is not an option. They can go to h***, I don't trust them to change a lightbulb let alone two meters. 

 

A smart meter would be really useful, our leccy meter is in the back corner of a kitchen cupboard which needs everything removed from it to get a reading, but unless they turn up with a warrant or threaten to cut us off they can do one. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Wheatley

[Metr0Land]

I've been with SSE since moving here in 2014 and like Wheatley had no problems until OVO took over.  Fortunately so far they've not pestered me for smart meter.  They have been asking for online meter reading which I've started giving.  The good news is the computer updates the bill as I write but then seems to take over a month to send out paper docs confirming it.  Why????? 

[Gareth Collier]

Going back to the issue the father in law is having with Scottish Power here are the last 3 quarters energy usage graphs, they provided.

Even to my untrained eye I can see that since the smart meter was fitted there has been a considerable increase of a similar percentage each quarter (his only gas usage is hot water and heating in a very small house) yet they cannot see there being a problem. I'm guessing the script they read from doesn't cater for this senario and common sense is not allowed.

It is so hard trying to talk to someone who refuses to accept such an increase is anything but correct because their computer says it is.

 

 

[Reorte]

5 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I understand there is some industry standard under which they are supposed to replace meters every 20 or 30 years.

I think it might be longer than that - I had my electricity meter replaced last year (with an ordinary non-smart one), the guy doing it said the previous one was from the 70s.

[Martin]

It depends on the certification period for the meter - list is here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/857025/Schedule_4_-_7th_January_2020.pdf

 

There should be a sticker on the meter to show when it was installed

 

    Martin

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

Going back to the issue the father in law is having with Scottish Power here are the last 3 quarters energy usage graphs, they provided.

Even to my untrained eye I can see that since the smart meter was fitted there has been a considerable increase of a similar percentage each quarter (his only gas usage is hot water and heating in a very small house) yet they cannot see there being a problem. I'm guessing the script they read from doesn't cater for this senario and common sense is not allowed.

It is so hard trying to talk to someone who refuses to accept such an increase is anything but correct because their computer says it is.

 

 

 

Put in an official complaint that it is your view the meter is faulty (unless the previous one was), if they fail to act go to the ombudsman. It does sound quite high at £150 per month.

[Trainshed Terry]

Dose anybody know of a smart meter that takes in account those people that Economy 7 heating.

 

Terry

[Gareth Collier]

42 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Put in an official complaint that it is your view the meter is faulty (unless the previous one was), if they fail to act go to the ombudsman. It does sound quite high at £150 per month.

We did hence them reluctantly agreeing to send an engineer but it will be the ombudsman if the engineer thinks all is ok.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

It gives me no satisfaction to smugly remind you all I told you not to go along with smart meters quite early on in the thread, and it's only going to get worse mark my words.

 

Mike.

[mezzoman253]

At the moment, you do not have to have a Smart meter by law.

 

You may find if you switch provider or tariff, that the better new tariffs will have a caveat saying you can have the tariff but only if you sign up for a Smart meter.

 

I managed to get a 2 year deal that suited me only if I " Would allow Smart meter marketing", so that's not having one but agreeing for them to contact me about having one. As yet, one year in, they have not contacted me.

 

However it will get more and more difficult to avoid having one whilst getting a decent deal. The energy companies are forcing you down that line by pricing.

 

Rob

 

 

[hayfield]

41 minutes ago, Gareth Collier said:

We did hence them reluctantly agreeing to send an engineer but it will be the ombudsman if the engineer thinks all is ok.

 

As I said when the engineer came in and had a quick look and test, he said all was OK. I explained my concerns, in my case showed the drop in consumption going down in winter. then when he noticed no gas use had been registered in half a hour the penny dropped. The meter was not registering gas use, where as it was working in smart mode as designed, but was just telling the gas company I was not using any gas.

 

I would ask for a detailed explanation that when all appliances are the same, why is it now using far more units? since the meters were changed?

 

It may be one of your appliances is faulty or you have a leak?

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, mezzoman253 said:

At the moment, you do not have to have a Smart meter by law.

 

You may find if you switch provider or tariff, that the better new tariffs will have a caveat saying you can have the tariff but only if you sign up for a Smart meter.

 

I managed to get a 2 year deal that suited me only if I " Would allow Smart meter marketing", so that's not having one but agreeing for them to contact me about having one. As yet, one year in, they have not contacted me.

However it will get more and more difficult to avoid having one whilst getting a decent deal. The energy companies

are forcing you down that line by pricing.

Yet not all people can have one even if they want. I don't want one so the problems don't bother me, but there's no real mobile reception in my house, and when the replacement meter was being fitted I was told that for some reason smart meters keep tripping the model of consumer unit I've got (I hadn't heard that one before!)

 

Nothing's changed to stop me viewing them as a solution looking for a problem, stemming from thinking "got to be more high tech, that's better innit?", and nor has my dislike for more than the absolute minimum practically necessary recording and monitoring diluted in the slightest.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Reorte

[SHMD]

Don't forget - or be deceived - the end aim, of getting enough "smart meters" installed, is so that the industry can bring in peak time pricing.

 

IE, whack up the price immediately - this second - because we cant supply the demand.

Thus, you will HAVE TO always monitor the "spot price" to see if you have to turn off the washing machine mid cycle!

 

 

Don't fall for the smiley face, checking your phone all the time is fun, advertising giving the pretence that you can save money where-ever you are with a smart meter. NOT IF you already switch things off when not in use!

 

 

Kev.