UK's first full day without coal generating electricity.

[APOLLO]

Had a run down to IKEA Warrington today. looking across to Fiddlers ferry power station it seemed "dead" - no smoke or steam. Anyway, just seen this on BBC news

 

The UK is set to spend its first full day without generating electricity from coal on Friday, the National Grid says.

It said the previous longest continuous period without coal-generation was 19 hours, achieved last May. It comes after years of moving to less-polluting natural gas and renewables - though demand for power also tends to be lower on Fridays. 

Although National Grid said a coal-free day looked likely, it would only know for sure very late on Friday.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-39668889

 

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

 

Never thought I'd see the day.

 

Brit15

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by APOLLO

[rob D2]

Green lobby has destroyed hundreds of jobs in rail freight through this whilst Germany and China continue to churn out electricity through coal

[lyneux]

Green lobby has destroyed hundreds of jobs in rail freight through this whilst Germany and China continue to churn out electricity through coal

Rapscallions! Life would be so much better without those pesky greens. Let's not bother trying to clean up the planet, bring on emphasema for our kids and a 5m rise in sea level. At least there would be jobs in the rail industry!

 

Apollo, that's an interesting fact, thanks for sharing.

 

Guy

[steve45]

 "power also tends to be lower on Fridays"

 

Not many model railway clubs meet on a Friday night.................................... 

[30801]

Green lobby has destroyed hundreds of jobs in rail freight through this whilst Germany and China continue to churn out electricity through coal

 

China is dropping coal. Can't imagine why.

 

http://mashable.com/2015/12/01/beijing-smog-climate-talks/#FDE1D2LtTkqE

[Dava]

Ratcliffe on Soar has plentiful coal stocks, presumably its in reserve. There are daily anhydrite trains to Hotchley Hill with limestone ex coal fired power stations. So coal is resting at a period of cheap gas and renewables working. As the nuclear plants come off line with no replacements it may be a different story. Toshiba are bust so how likely is Hinkley Point to go ahead?

 

Dava

[Arthur]

 

Toshiba aren't involved with Hinckley C, that's the French company, EDF and which is the very early stages of construction.

 

Toshiba are involved with Moorside near Sellafield in Cumbria and that is still in the planning stages.

[kevinlms]

China is dropping coal. Can't imagine why.

 

http://mashable.com/2015/12/01/beijing-smog-climate-talks/#FDE1D2LtTkqE

I think the turning point for China, was when they had to close so much industry/business down for weeks before the 2008 Olympics.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/sports/olympics/07china.html

 

The cost to the country of illnesses related to the pollution must be horrendous.

[PatB]

And in other news, the internal combustion engine has cost thousands of jobs in the farriery, livery and dung collection industries, the flying machine has devastated the passenger liner industry and the production of lubricating oil from petroleum products has completely stuffed commercial whaling.

 

Things change.

[BlackRat]

Nothing at all to worry about.......

 

No doubt when North Korea is lit up, we can all,bask in the warm afterglow for several generations.

[Ian J.]

The number of 'raw' jobs on this planet are going to be diminishing as time goes on. What will be left are 'coffee shop' jobs - i.e. those which involve personal interactions (that's already a significant component of over ninety percent of the jobs in this country). We need to learn how to deal with that in world of well over seven billion people. Simply wishing that things just stayed as they were in the past won't work.

 

Regarding the actual article and what it means, I think it's good we've reached this stage, but there is such a long way to go to making our energy use a sustainable system, this really only marks the beginning of the beginning.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Ian J.

[Guest]

Simply wishing that things just stayed as they were in the past won't work.

 

I know. It does sometimes make you feel better though, as does humour in adverse situations.

 

Re: the Greens... an admirable though misguided bunch but devoid of any sense of humour whatsoever. I managed to make an activist so cross on Southend High Street once that she threw a biro at me. I guess I should be grateful she didn't have a tray of pin badges.

I hate street surveys, but whilst my wife was shopping I thought it might pass the time. I lied to every single question...

 

What do you drive?

A 5.6 litre V8 4x4.

Do you recycle?

No.

What are your views on burning fossil fuel to generate electricity?

Well, when fossil fuel runs out, I guess we could all eat more meat and burn the hides to stay warm.

 

She'd gone purple by now.

 

The final straw was when I confessed I'd run over a hedgehog for fun. That was when she came at me with the biro. See? No sense of humour whatsoever...

Still, at least I got a free pen.

[rob D2]

Rapscallions! Life would be so much better without those pesky greens. Let's not bother trying to clean up the planet, bring on emphasema for our kids and a 5m rise in sea level. At least there would be jobs in the rail industry!

Apollo, that's an interesting fact, thanks for sharing.

Guy

 

I'm guessing it wasn't your job....glad you find it amusing.

[Dick Turpin]

I know. It does sometimes make you feel better though, as does humour in adverse situations.

 

Re: the Greens... an admirable though misguided bunch but devoid of any sense of humour whatsoever. I managed to make an activist so cross on Southend High Street once that she threw a biro at me. I guess I should be grateful she didn't have a tray of pin badges.

I hate street surveys, but whilst my wife was shopping I thought it might pass the time. I lied to every single question...

 

What do you drive?

A 5.6 litre V8 4x4.

Do you recycle?

No.

What are your views on burning fossil fuel to generate electricity?

Well, when fossil fuel runs out, I guess we could all eat more meat and burn the hides to stay warm.

 

She'd gone purple by now.

 

The final straw was when I confessed I'd run over a hedgehog for fun. That was when she came at me with the biro. See? No sense of humour whatsoever...

Still, at least I got a free pen.

 

A good one is to suggest that we build new power stations to run on burning old rubber car tyres...

[jjb1970]

I'm guessing it wasn't your job....glad you find it amusing.

While the post you refer to was a bit glib the point it made was perfectly valid. Things change and we have to change. People working in the renewables sector might ask why jobs of coal train workers should be considered so valuable that we should keep burning coal when it is now widely accepted as being a bad thing to do.

[jjb1970]

I made a good living out of thermal power generation for a few years and enjoyed working in the industry. I spent a lot of time working in emissions abatement, including a major carbon capture scheme for a planned new coal plant. My honest opinion is that despite emissions abatement having paid me very well is that it makes more sense to minimise pollution in the first place rather than burn a fuel like coal and then throw money at cleaning up the mess.

[lyneux]

I'm guessing it wasn't your job....glad you find it amusing.

My job got outsourced to India 15 years ago. I got over it.

Edited April 22, 2017 by lyneux

[Dick Turpin]

One of the buzzword phrases in Further Education in the last few years has been 'lifelong learning', which translates into 'perpetual retraining'. In other words a lot of people nowadays have to live with the idea of having to constantly retrain for new jobs as the workplace evolves at a far quicker pace than it used to. We all have to get used to being constantly made redundant, or to have to make repeated career shifts if we want to stay in work. I suppose one key skill is in being able to look ahead and getting prepared for changes to avoid being caught out. The problem is that some people are much better at doing this than others. 

[PatB]

My job got outsourced to India 15 years ago. I got over it.

 

Likewise, or at least my regular employment basically ceased a few years ago due to changes beyond the control of any one company, industry, country or lobby group. I've never asked for sympathy, nor would I accept it if offered. The world changes. The only rational approach is to adapt as best one can.

[jonny777]

And in other news, the internal combustion engine has cost thousands of jobs in the farriery, livery and dung collection industries, the flying machine has devastated the passenger liner industry and the production of lubricating oil from petroleum products has completely stuffed commercial whaling.

 

Not to mention those pesky railways which put all those canal companies, and industrial barge owners, out of business...

[BoD]

My job got outsourced to India 15 years ago. I got over it.

We outsourced our carbon emissions too. And then increase our footprint even more by having to import.

 

I know it's not as simple as that and we have made great strides in efficiency, renewables and what have you, but I don't think there's any reason for us to sit proud and smug just yet.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

As a significant % of our electricity is imported via Cross-Channel links, do we know if that electricity was all non-coal generated on Friday?

Edited April 22, 2017 by Peter Kazmierczak

[jjb1970]

I think the story on this thread is not so much about energy as about the changes in the employment market and society. There is no such thing as a job for life, any prospective employer or other person who tries to pretend there is is either lying or wilfully ignorant of the changes we've seen in society. As has been stated, through life learning and change is now the norm if people don't want to be left behind and one of the most important skills people can have is an ability to learn. That is both a threat and an opportunity, it is clearly a threat in that many have lost their jobs and feel threatened. However if you accept the changes (and King Canute and the tide springs to mind) then you can use it to your advantage and develop your career on an ongoing basis. I don't think many younger people even want a job for life, I must admit I'd hate to do the same job for life.

[Zomboid]

We outsourced our carbon emissions too. And then increase our footprint even more by having to import.

 

I know it's not as simple as that and we have made great strides in efficiency, renewables and what have you, but I don't think there's any reason for us to sit proud and smug just yet.

One day without burning any coal is not the top of the mountain, but it's a necessary step on the way to a world where we can generate electricity without burning dinosaurs in the process.

[APOLLO]

As a significant % of our electricity is imported via Cross-Channel links, do we know if that electricity was all non-coal generated on Friday?

 

 More than likely nuclear - though France's "nuclear fleet" of power stations is ageing and they have replacement decisions to make soon.

 

 I remember Fiddlers Ferry being built in the early 70's. It opened in 1971 so they probably have had their moneys worth out of it. I'm a (retired) gas engineer so know little of electricity generating plant life. I do know however that burning "cheap (for now)" gas to generate electricity was taught to me as a big no-no when I was studying engineering (early 70's). Things change I agree, but the UK's indigenous gas is well past it's peak. We're now importing LNG (liquid natural gas) from mainly politically unstable / risky countries.

 

Germany is replacing nuclear with coal (base load) and indeed the generators from Didcot were sold to Germany when Didcot was decommissioned a couple of years ago. They burn lignite which is between peat & coal and is very, very dirty emissions wise.

 

Biomass (Drax) is a political environmental and logistical joke, it emits more (and nastier) emissions than coal I have read. Fiddlers Ferry could burn biomass I understand. Biomass is imported into nearby Liverpool then railed across the Pennines to Drax (having been railed to a port in the USA & shipped across the Atlantic).

 

As to new nuclear - they're still arguing. Don't expect to see any new ones for 10 - 20 years.

 

The greens just don't understand base load. Freezing cold winters night, still ail = no wind, no solar. 5.00pm, peak energy use, heating on, cooking on TV on etc etc.

 

SO - the government & industry answer (as is being discussed in another thread) is ------- SMART METERS. Demand for both gas and electricity will be shaved at peak periods by charging more for it - a lot more, though they can only introduce this when a substantial number of consumers have smart meters.

 

All the above has been stated both by others and myself before - but it's an important issue that will directly affect each and every one of us. We all need to know actual basic facts re our energy supplies.

 

What are the answers ? Well, I'm really not sure. Gas won't last for ever (though there is quite a lot of it so I understand). Fracking will help but is very controversial. Coal is dead after 2025 in the UK. Our nuclear capacity is ageing fast (as is France from whom we import). More solar and wind helps (but does not supply base load - see above). Tidal / Wave is also years away (Severn / Morecambe Bay) - and may or not get built. As to fusion -- who knows ?.

 

I see coal is back "on line" - 0.7% "currently" !!!!!!!!

 

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

 

Brit15

Edited April 22, 2017 by APOLLO