S7 scratch building

[WFPettigrew]

27 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

It appears that open wagons were often used for carrying flat length of timber, usually overhanging one end.  The LNWR also produced the D14 Deal wagon for carrying flat planks, basically a long wheelbase flat wagon with chains and hooks to restrain the load.

 

Bolster wagons seem to be aimed more at carrying large round section timers such as tree trunks, as they often had pivoting bolsters with stanchions. The LNWR D12 and D13 had stanchions which included a hole to which the chain was attached, so that the bolster was securely attached to the timber and would rotate wit it..

 

Jol, I was actually thinking of this photo on the LNWR Society Facebook when I wrote that - https://www.facebook.com/groups/109619289726001/permalink/1280754605945791/ - with what are almost certainly a pair of Furness Railway "timber trucks" as they called them (Diagram 38 was assigned to these when the FR was writing up its stock for the incoming LMS in 1922) loaded relatively lightly with timber rather than a massive tree trunk. 

 

The point I was trying to make wasn't about the bolster rotating, but what happened if the two wagons tried to move relative to each other longitudinally, one cause of which would be the track geometry depending on the design of the connection between the pair.  

 

In the photo, you can clearly see the chain securing the load, but I don't know whether the combination of the total weight of the load plus the chain would have been enough to stop at least part of the load sliding around if the two bolsters did not stay a fixed distance apart. 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

The loading instructions for timber trucks or single bolster wagons - the BR ones on the Barrowmore Model Railway Group website and the LNWR ones reproduced in LNWR Wagons vol. 1 are pretty well identical - deal with the case of loads requiring 2, 3, 4, or 5 trucks. The key rule was that the load was only secured to the bolsters on two trucks - the first and second or first and third for three trucks, then on the second and fourth for 4 or 5 trucks, with the bolsters removed from the other trucks, acting only as runners. So there could be one or two, but never more than two, couplings between the bolsters carrying the load.

[Compound2632]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

the BR ones on the Barrowmore Model Railway Group website 

 

Here:

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Booklet_BR20426_Issue.pdf.

I had misremembered; these instructions say for five trucks, use the bolsters on the first and fourth trucks for round timber but the second and forth trucks for such things as rails and girders. In these cases, the bolsters are kept on the other trucks, to spread the weight, but the load is not secured to them.

 

The LNWR instructions are the same except they do not include the examples with bogie timber / bolster trucks.

[airnimal]

A first attempt at the securing chains between this pair of bolster wagons has been made but it will need modification to reduce the number of links. I still need to shorten the joining pins and  tidy up the brackets but it is showing promise.  It is all very fiddly trying to put it all together.  

[Simond]

On 17/10/2023 at 10:35, WFPettigrew said:

I guess this is why bogie bolsters were invented...!

 

I doubt the invention of bogie bolsters was the issue, but the availability of suitable lengths of mild steel section from which to make them (economically) might have been the limiting factor. 

 

My guess is that wooden solebar bolster wagons were around for a fair old time before steel solebars became the norm.

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, Simond said:

My guess is that wooden solebar bolster wagons were around for a fair old time before steel solebars became the norm.

 

Certainly! Remember that the Great Western was unusual in adopting iron underframes as standard from the 1880s. Neither the Midland nor the LNWR ever built any iron or steel framed single bolster timber trucks and were typical of British railways as a whole. The single bolster timber truck was one of the earliest type of specialised goods wagon to be developed, being well-established by the late 1840s in a form that scarcely changed, other than by becoming a bit longer, over the following 80 years or so. The practice of building them in fixed pairs seems also to date from the very early days.

[Caley Jim]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Here:

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Booklet_BR20426_Issue.pdf.

I had misremembered; these instructions say for five trucks, use the bolsters on the first and fourth trucks for round timber but the second and forth trucks for such things as rails and girders. In these cases, the bolsters are kept on the other trucks, to spread the weight, but the load is not secured to them.

 

The LNWR instructions are the same except they do not include the examples with bogie timber / bolster trucks.

Somewhere I have a copy of similar drawings for the Caledonian Railway, who referred to these as 'swivel wagons'.  Their 'General Instructions relating to Goods Mineral and Live Stock Traffic' state in Rule 97:

Long timber and iron, requiring more than two wagons, must be loaded so as not to bind the whole of the wagons too tightly together. Swivel or Bolster trucks must be used when possible.  Guard trucks, or under-runners, may be used when necessary, to ensure safe transit.

and within Rule 98:

....Rails, Bars, Plates &c., on Bolster or Swivel truck, must have the chains wrapped round, and not merely tightened over them, and the trucks must be coupled together as tightly as possible to prevent the loads shifting in transit.

There is also an instruction for guards to examine such loads at every stop.

 

Jim

[airnimal]

The brackets that I made from brass by filing a V in the material and then folding them to shape, and running solder in the joints didn't prove robust enough and the joints failed. So I have made replacements from plastic but they are over scale and I may return to metal when I can find suitable metal of the correct thickness.  Perhaps when painted and with the chains attached they may not be to noticeable but I will try and find an alternative. 

Still there is plenty of work on the rest of this pair to keep me going for a few weeks yet. I have noticed on the photograph and the drawings that there isn't any external crown plates only bolts through the solebar's. 

[Western Star]

Mike,

Is the solebar just timber...  or is the timber faced with a steel flitch plate?

regards, Graham

 

[airnimal]

Graham,  yes the solebar's are faced with a steel flitch plate according to the drawing that cover the whole length and doesn't stop short like some LNWR wagons. 

 

The stanchions have a small D shackle on the top with a fine chain attached. I thought that it was an interesting feature that I would attempt to reproduce if possible.  The stanchions have been cut from nickel sheet 26 thou thick and the D shackle is from Exactoscale. Drilling out the hole in the top with a drill only 14 thou thick was fraught with trepidation because I only have a few drills of this size and I didn't want to break any. 

I have made one pair and will hopefully make the other pair in a few days time. 

[airnimal]

I wasn't going to do anything today because I was going out on my bike. I did venture out but i wasn't feeling very well so turned back after 5 miles.  

 

So I drilled the other pair of stanchions and fitted both pairs to the wagons.  I am now stuck on the bolsters because i don't have any handrail knobs of the correct size that i usually use to make the loops over the bolster. Once upon a time i could nip out to a model shop ( remember them ) and buy some more but i am not aware of any near where i live. I keep being told that the internet is the way forward but for a Luddite like myself that's a real pain. 

[airnimal]

Nuts, bolts and rivets.  I have added most of the small bits with just the horse hooks and a few small items to finish the bodywork.  I am still missing the handrail knobs to complete the bolsters but I have had a kind offer from a certain S7 fellow modeller who used to fly fighter jets to have some of his. I am trying to source some locally with one person supposedly going to phone me back to see if they have any in stock. But that was several hours ago and I am still waiting. You can see how I use handrail knobs on the loops of the bolsters from my previous LYR wagon. They have to be filed to shape but I can't think of any other way of making them. 

[Caley Jim]

Absolutely stunning as always, Mike.  Glad I don't work in S7 or I'd be totally disillusioned as I could never achieve that standard.

 

Jim

[Winander]

On 20/10/2023 at 13:52, airnimal said:

The brackets that I made from brass by filing a V in the material and then folding them to shape, and running solder in the joints didn't prove robust enough

 

Could you make an extended U shape for the hoop of the bracket and fasten that into the solebar, perhaps by drilling and a bit of warmth to melt it in position? You could do the fixings separately however is easiest as they would be cosmetic.

[airnimal]

Jim, I feel embarrassed at such praise. I suppose after over 50 years modelling one does improve because when I started my models were truly awful. 

 

Winader, thank you for that idea which I may attempt before I get to painting this pair of wagons. 

 

I managed to buy a couple of packets of handrail knobs from Norman Wisenden's emporium in Stalybridge. I used to go to the old shop in Greenfield many years ago before Norman sold in 2005.

So I put a knob in the mini drill and filed the shank down before cutting it down to length. I sleeved the pre drilled hole in the bolster with brass tube and bent the .7mm nickel wire for the hoop around a suitable drill bit. 

 

[airnimal]

I have managed to fit the hoops on to the bolsters after dunking them all in chemical black solution. 

I still have to add some more details on to the solebar's as well as doing all the brakegear.  

 

 

[airnimal]

I keep doing a bit at a time on this pair of wagons. I had cut the backing plates from 15 thou plasticard that go behind the buffer bodies that are missing from the castings. The buffer heads were turned down because they  were very heavy which spoiled there appearance. Still to make are the horse hooks and the capping strips on the body sides. Then I can get on to the brakegear which will all have to be scratch built because i don't know of any casting that match, but they look straight forward enough. 

 

We have had one offer on our house which we have rejected as it was very low. The housing market is very slow at present but we are not in a bad position because we don't have to move. 

[Coal Tank]

Hi Mike, I do like the way that you have done the hoops,great idea

John 

[airnimal]

I forget to post the picture of the buffers that I turned the heads down on. The one in the foreground is the one before tickling with a file in the drill to reduce the head thickness. 

 

A start has been made of the brakegear which needs to be made from scratch because I don't know of any castings available that match the profile of the brake shoes. Luckily I only need a couple because there is only one on each wagon. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by airnimal

[airnimal]

I have soldered the brake hanger to a off cut of etched strip with a elongated hole in it to give me a small amount of adjustment. Being able to remove a lot of the parts makes it so much easier to paint everything. I remember the hassel when I first started building wagons with the wheels trapped in white metal axleboxes and trying to poke a paint brush through the wheels and brakegear to get at hard to reach places. Never again !

[Lacathedrale]

Absolute peak artistry :)

[airnimal]

I have cut the brake handles from 16 thou nickel sheet and filed them to size before adding a 14 BA  washer to act as a boss. The brake rack is from Ambis and fixed with a lace pin. I have just got to sort out the axleboxes to finish this pair off after painting of course.  

[Schooner]

How do you make even brake handle things of beauty? It's indecent!

 

:)

[airnimal]

Having the right tools for the job makes life easier. I have a metal guillotine which allows me cut the metal to size which just needs dressing with a file to smooth the edges before bending to shape. The boss on the end is round on the drawing and photographs so that was easy with a 14BA washer.  The shaft is shown to be square so I am going to change it sometime soon. 

[airnimal]

I have gone back and replaced the round rod holding the brake shaft with .9mm square brass bar to represent that fixing, I think It does look better.

Something that was puzzling me was the buffers but I couldn't see was was wrong. I went back to the wagon book and went through the drawings and photographs when it dawn on me that the web down the outside was to long. I then went and looked at my other L&Y wagons and they didn't have any webbing at all which I think is correct for early wagons. I went and checked my other stock of buffers incase I had used the wrong type or mixed them up, but they are the same. Now does this mean that the buffers are incorrect or have they been labelled incorrectly  ?

My last L&Y bolster wagon that I made last year I now believe to have the wrong buffers. I don't think I am going to change them now and if anyone mentioned them I will say they were replaced with with the older ones when having a overhaul.  

I will have to shorten the web on the ones I have already fitted which is easier than the other way around. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by airnimal
Missed one photograph off.