Merfyn Jones Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 A few Crosvilles.... A pair of dreaded Noddy's. Good sense of humor required when changing gear.... WEB Buses 1.jpg Ever a smart looking saloon.... WEB Buses 2.jpg Assorted Bristol L Types were still on the Abergele-Rhyl service when we came to live in Wales in 1965.... WEB Buses 3.jpg The long version..... WEB Buses 4.jpg And one with original type of destination box.... WEB Buses 5.jpg These worked the Cymru Coastliner in the mid ot late 1960's......Very smart too..... WEB Buses 6.jpg One of the 'shorties' passing Slaters. This garage had its adverts in almost every Crosville bus at one time and Abergele became known as slater town when the family bought out every garage in town. They all closed and now Slaters had gone too.... WEB Buses 7.jpg The waste ground that was once Slaters with the Arriva 'Tesco' bus stop clearly in view.... WEB Buses 8.jpg Like your pics Larry. The comment about SC gear changes rang true. I last drove one 36 years ago when I had mine (the coach behind) A couple of weeks ago I had a go at Clive's SC12 from Pensarn home and relived how they really are. Memories ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) Like your pics Larry. The comment about SC gear changes rang true. I last drove one 36 years ago when I had mine (the coach behind) A couple of weeks ago I had a go at Clive's SC12 from Pensarn home and relived how they really are. Memories ! I envy you Merf. I would like to drive a half-cab one more time before I snuff it, but it is doubtful now. Didn't you buy one of those Noddy buses one time? Ossie Blythin at Goldstar bought one for some reason and we avoided it like the plague. The lads used to stop at the bottom of St.Asaph hill and select first gear before whining all the way to the top without ever daring to go for second! He soon sold it on. I drove everything Ossie bought including a Scottish ex Alexander low-height decker with full height cab....a real weirdo that he never put into traffic. He asked me to try it out on the Abergele school run so I did a diversion on the way back to take photos. Edited May 18, 2018 by coachmann 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post coachmann Posted May 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) More Crosville.... Best of the lot in my book and one I would have loved to have owned. Who can forget the beautiful sound of an early post-war AEC .... Pre-war Leyland with post-war body, a bus I shall forever associate with Llew Williams (Clow to his pals) who drove it on the Rhyl to Betws-Y-Coed service many summers ago for Crosville-Wales. I was invited to the Rhyl garage to photograph it alongside the new 'Breadvans' that the company was bestowing on its unsuspecting passengers haha.... Ah, that's better, the Lodekkas. I resented them when they began to replace the old Bristol K's but came to like them in the end. I road them regularly just for the hell of it when visiting George Mellor's factory at Rhos-on-Sea although I was usually asleep by Colwyn Bay... The first time I boarded one of these was in a queue from Pensarn and I lifted my foot to go inside downstairs but it came down heavily on a flat floor! I was used to climbing a step in Lancashire...... Sleek... Even sleeker with the full side destination panel.... What a come down...CrosVILE in NCB whitewash livery! Never mind, it's all part of North Wales and Merseyside history now... Edited May 18, 2018 by coachmann 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I envy you Merf. I would like to drive a half-cab one more time before I snuff it, but it is doubtful now. Didn't you buy one of those Noddy buses one time? Ossie Blythin at Goldstar bought one for some reason and we avoided it like the plague. The lads used to stop at the bottom of St.Asaph hill and select first gear before whining all the way to the top without ever daring to go for second! He soon sold it on. I drove everything Ossie bought including a Scottish ex Alexander low-height decker with full height cab....a real weirdo that he never put into traffic. He asked me to try it out on the Abergele school run so I did a diversion on the way back to take photos. The cream coach in your photo was mine from 1976 to 1982. Great fun, 22mpg if you were not in a hurry. One day when I took it to work, 1978 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 The cream coach in your photo was mine from 1976 to 1982. Great fun, 22mpg if you were not in a hurry. CSG655 (4).jpg One day when I took it to work, 1978 If I manage to coax my AEC Regal III to Llandudno next year I 'll let you both have a drive!.........................................so don't snuff it before then! 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) If I manage to coax my AEC Regal III to Llandudno next year I 'll let you both have a drive!.........................................so don't snuff it before then! Thank you. That is a really lovely bus you have there. Coincidentally, I passed my PSV on an ex.City of Oxford Regent V with exposed radiator in the early 1970's in Llandudno. It passed to preservation around 1977 and the boss and I followed it along the A55 towards Chester for some distance in case it broke down! The cream coach in your photo was mine from 1976 to 1982. Great fun, 22mpg if you were not in a hurry. One day when I took it to work, 1978 Ah, the old goods yard as was at Llandudno Junction. For some reason I thought you had one of the plain green noddies. Imagine owning a bus in our old age and everything that goes with it. From what I have read, my old Daimler CVD6 will probably never run again. Edited May 18, 2018 by coachmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 If I manage to coax my AEC Regal III to Llandudno next year I 'll let you both have a drive!.........................................so don't snuff it before then! Look forward to that, but it will have to be before we go to the pub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) London town's last trolleybus... Edited May 18, 2018 by Rugd1022 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) Last few Crosvilles.... My interest in buses was waning by the time these came in, as everything seemed to lack character. Today, they are as interesting to me as the older stuff, such is the way of nostalgia..... All photographed passing through the tiny village of Llanddullas... Another high-back seat version.... The bus seat version.... I saw the first one of these in Colwyn Bay and was impressed with their appearance, but i have never ridden on one.... I seem to have missed out a chunk of history covering Cymru Crosville Wales, but it is all on trannies and I have no suitable scanner. So the next move was to First Bus.... Edited May 18, 2018 by coachmann 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2018 Last few Crosvilles.... My interest in buses was waning by the time these came in, as everything seemed to lack character. Today, they are as interesting to me as the older stuff, such is the way of nostalgia..... It's not what it used to be! Mike. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Another 'cosy' golden oldie... I look at photos like this and think of the London my maternal grandparents knew... 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted May 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2018 I decided to park & ride to hospital yesterday and ride a double deck bus for the first time since the late 1970's. Interestingly (to me), the seats were small, bloody uncomfortable, and the body sounded like it was racking itself apart. The last buses I rode on and drove were AEC Regent V's, Leyland PD2's and PD3's and they had pretty solid bodies with no window rattle or creaking joints. Today I rode on the top deck and that was worse for noise. Talk about a tin box! Obviously it is better than trying to find somewhere to park at the hospital car park, which is why I dropped back onto public transport. But I have watched these sleek looking deckers pass me every day on the Rhyl-Llandudno service without realizing how noisy and uncomfortable they actually were. The noisiest and most uncomfortable teeth-grinding half-cabs I rode on the the wartime bodies Bristols and Guy Arabs, but these modern giganteans have barely brought us an inch from those days apart from in the road speed department. You may well have seen me on most Sunday's in my ex London red double decker ALX400 on a DAF chassis on Rail replacement between Llandudno Junction to Chester. Very little rattles despite it being built in 2001 but I do go in search for rattles and banish them. Modern bus build quality is lacking but early this year I caught a Enviro 400 and that was rattle free surprisingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Rattles are sadly a standard feature of most modern service buses, although ADL made a conscious effort to eliminate them when the MMC range was being developed and in my experience of them in London, have done a sound job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted May 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2018 I saw the first one of these in Colwyn Bay and was impressed with their appearance, but i have never ridden on one.... And that was one of the very first. Not many entered service with K-registrations. Midland Red had some. London Country had 50 K-reg reserved but only two were delivered in time and LN3 onwards had them voided in favour of L-reg plates. Southdown had a batch of quite early L-reg ones but the first I saw, having only seen a photo "(of a Midland Red one) in "Buses" previously was Provincial's no. 16. I also managed a ride out of curiosity by dint of changing my plans for travel from Gosport - Southampton to go via Fareham. I recall being suitably impressed by the space internally and utterly unimpressed by the infernal racket generated at the rear and by the cheap-and-nasty vinyl seats. Rattles are the bane of the bus designer's life. Road surfaces tend to be unforgiving and unless we reach a day when a complete vehicle can be cast as a single piece and still have enough "give" then we shall have joints and fixings in the construction. To this day the now-elderly Routemasters are largely rattle-free, helped by those wind-down Widney drop-light window mechanisms instead of sliders / hoppers. Of the modern generation I too find the ADL MMC-range (200 and 400 sampled thus far) to be much better than most though the LT-class "Borismaster" is close behind as is the Egyptian-built EvoCity body now in London service. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted May 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2018 Both my northern counties buses single and double deck from the late 80's to mid 90's has no rattles to this day nor has the Routemaster. I certainly agree about the roads having a role especially as they are causing damage to the vehicles in general. My late 80's ECW Olympian was rattle free also. I remember travelling at a rally and I'm sure it was a willowbrook body and watching it flexing before my eyes going down the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted May 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2018 I could suggest every Northern Counties body purchased by Southdown rattled to the point of distraction. But I'm not at all sure I ever travelled on them all! The substantial Queen Mary PD3 fleet and the oddly tall but stylish Leopard DPs were all noisy in that department. Not really helped by the Southdown tradition of the conductor tapping a coin twice on the PD3's inside cab screen instead of using the bell as a starting signal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I did early 1961 to mid 1965 on Oldham Corporation and the buses seemed quiet enough from memory. Looking at the old bus seats, they were comfortable and leaned back. The comfiest buses were the Crossley's but we rarely got one on all-day service. I drove a Crossley saloon (Bolton Corporation) back from the Harrogate Rally one year for which the engine was very adequate, and it was like driving a car with its easy gear change. I also took it to Bury East Lancs Transport Museum for parts, which in those days was mostly buses and fire engines. Who in the early 1970's would have thought it would develop into one of the country's major heritage railways. The Arriva decker I rode on today differs from most other Arriva buses I've seen in having a mix of deep and shallow windows downstairs. Legal lettering was a Bangor address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted May 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) The Arriva decker I rode on today differs from most other Arriva buses I've seen in having a mix of deep and shallow windows downstairs. Legal lettering was a Bangor address.If the rear seats downstairs faced sideways at the rear that sounds like a ex Arriva London DLP Plaxton president body on a DAF db250 chassis. I've got what is the forth one to be built but thankfully all the windows are at the same height! The body framework goes back to earlier Northern counties designs such as the Palatine 2 and the chassis to the MCW metrobus. I have been inside the first president built on a one off Volvo chassis. When built the body was actually narrower than today. The regs allowed the width of buses to increase so the existing body was widened (how?!) and you can see the gap on each side in the roof all the way along from where it has been widened. It never entered service and was trying to be sold to me! Edited May 18, 2018 by RThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 If the rear seats downstairs faced sideways at the rear that sounds like a ex Arriva London DLP Plaxton president body on a DAF db250 chassis. I've got what is the forth one to be built but thankfully all the windows are at the same height! Thanks for the info. I will take a better look at it on Sunday and maybe a photo. I have to say I am beginning to enjoy the rides, so it must be re-awaking some of the old bus enthusiast in me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I have to say that I think one of the worse bus chassis/body combinations on the road today is the Scania N230/ADL Enviro 400. We have loads of these in Oxford in both OBC and Stagecoach fleets and considering they are on air suspension it makes a Bristol VR a pleasure to ride on! Having worked 41 years in the bus industry the Leyland Olympian has to be one of the best vehicles I worked with both from a driver's and engineer's point of view and the ex. LT Titan's were absolutely luxury. In modern day terms the Oxford Citaro's take a lot of beating in the comfort department but do suffer from rattles with all the heavy roof mounted equipment. The Wrights Streetdeck seems to be an improvement but in my opinion is still not up to Olympian standard! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted May 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) I agree with the Leyland Olympian, Volvo Olympian not as good and suffer from chassis rot a lot worse despite being younger! My first ever bus was ex London Transport T1000, fairly complicated for its age but very well built which the Olympian is a less complicated version allowing other builders bodies to be mounted. Modern Scanias are awful all round but the old ones was smooth and nice to drive. I had a Scania L94 coach and it's put me off Scania for life! My favourite bus from a engineers point of view is the step entrance Dennis dart. Very simple bus on leaf springs. Ideal to work on with the simplest of tools. Edited May 18, 2018 by RThompson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted May 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 19, 2018 You might have seen something very similar a Coachman. Note this bus was the only batch not built for Arriva but was later using them in the original red and black livery from Capital Connections ill fated route 60 from Streatham to Old Coulsdon. This bus will be restored eventually to as new condition just how I remember them in my early teens. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 I’d have to agree with the sentiments on the Scania based E400 deckers, they’re pretty much bulletproof from an engineering point of view but suffer the most awful ride. I’ve only ever driven one, and then only for a short distance, but it was on a par to drive and more responsive than the equivalent ADL or Volvo based alternatives. The rattle factor is a result of the lightweight aluminium construction of modern buses, not as robust as the RM and less forgiving than timber on indifferent roads. I doubt it’s any accident that the integrals, like the RM, suffer much less than the body on chassis configurations, not always the case but more often than not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) When we consider the buses built before the war and early post-war had to run on cobbled roads, the Charles Roe bodies stood up well and some Leyland TD4's ran for 20 years, which was unheard of in 1936-7 when they were constructed for Oldham. The war extended their lives as well as really punishing the bodies through enforced lack of maintenance and high wartime loadings. The English Electric bodies couldn't take it though and were either scrapped after the war or given remedial treatment by Salmesbury. Below, an English Electric TD5 in Oldham.... Other long-lasters in the area were the pre-war Dailmer COG6's belonging to SHMD Joint Board. Their Northern Counties bodies were well sound proofed with either moquette or carpet in the ceiling panels. Their Gardners roared around the streets of Hyde with a purpose unlke the winnying postwar CVD6's. All were pre-selector and all had a leather strap in hoops from the platform to the bell in the cab. It didnt go Ding-ding though......Always a tink-tink because drivers stuffed a cigarette packet under the bell. When I bought my 1952 CVD6, a cigarette packet was still there! Below, a pre-war SHMD COG6 still carrying pre-war streamline markings in the North Western Road Car bus station, Manchester...... Excuse my crude colour images...They avoid copyright issues. Edited May 19, 2018 by coachmann 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 More nostalgia... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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