For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[coachmann]

SELNEC PTE brought about changes and some of Stockport's Titans went to SHMD Tameside garage . I cannot think why the photgrapher included me in his picture of the outdoor parking ground, but a least it shows the Stockport vehicles at Tameside plus an ex.Bury PD2 at the back of the queue which was also transferred to the SHMD....

 

For some reason, the Joint Board men painted one of the ex. Stockport buses in SHMD green, and fleet No.5918 is seen climbing through Woodley from Stockport in 1971....

Edited May 26, 2018 by coachmann

[coachmann]

SHMD Tameside garage was between Ashton-Under-Lyne and Stalybridge, which neatly links in Ashton's own fleet of buses. The wartime Guy Arab's would have attracted the attention of any child with their raucous growling sound, and because there always seemed to be one standing beside Hyde market, I came to associate Ashton with these buses.  We left Hyde for Oldham when I was five years old and there was then a several years blank in my memory until I was around eight because our new home was some distance from any bus routes. It was when dad started taking me to work with him at Allied Industries in Denton, on Saturday mornings that I saw the Arabs again in Ashton. The one below is at Ashton market bus terminus beside the corporations cricket pavilion style offices and canteen and is on the short working to Hathershaw. No.71 with Massey body entered service in January 1945 and was out of service between February and December 1952 for a new Crossley body. It was withdrawn in 1962 and sold to Norths of Leeds....

 

Around the corner were the bus stands for Hyde, Stockport and Manchester. On a very dull afternoon, Crossley DD42 No.8 in original condition waits to leave for Hyde. GTJ 522 with Crossley body entered service in February 1947 and was withdrawn in May 1964. Sold to Auto Spares, Bingley.....

 

We moved to an out of town housing estate in 1954 and so the following summer I decided to climb to nearby Hartshead Pike. Surveying all around me, I saw a bright blue bus in the distance and could not for the life of me work out why! It turned out that Ashton was the first corporation in the area to change its traditional bus livery for something simpler. In 1970, I photographed this Guy Arav IV with Bond body on the Park Bridge iron works teatime working before abandoning the car at Bardsley and climbing aboard at the bus stop. I stayed on it for its next duty to Hyde. It was the very last time I rode a Guy to my home town, as they were on SELNEC PTE's hit-list.

 

This all-Leyland Tiger TS8 saloon is standing outside the garage on Mossley Road in the post-1955 livery. I never rode on one unfortunately. It entered service in December 1938 and was sold out of service in May 1963....

Edited May 27, 2018 by coachmann

[runs as required]

I have so enjoyed Coachman's memoires of bus driving along the north Wales coast and his earlier interest in the 'colourful' varied bus undertakings of the eastern edges of Manchester.

I grew up in the postwar years until the mid 1950s on the SE edges of Stockport. Our part of the dark Peak was North Western Road Car Company territory. Top of the pile had to be the 28 Bristol K double decker carrying hikers to Hayfield for the Sunday climb to Kinder downfall (the 28 was at its steamiest and dampest during the lowbridge ECW bodied years ).

Next in status was the 27 Manchester to Buxton service along the A6.

Like the greater part of NWRCC's services these were saloons carrying the range of ECW/Brush/Weymann/Burlingham/Willowbrook bodies that the Charles St., Stockport workshops lowered onto their Bristol L G5LW chasses as they refurbed them over the years.

 

The 27 (my school service) had the newest fleet vehicles Leyland Olympian demontrators, Atkinsons where you could sit with the driver and buses on loan from Aldershot & District. It also fielded the oldest as Duplicates: 1930s Dennis Lancets with peripheral seating - carrying the subsiderary's Majestic livery .

 

The most heroic always seemed to be the Macclesfield garage's old pre-war Bristol Ls with coachlike ECW cut away canopy bodies battling up the Cat & Fiddle and Rainow to Kettleshulme former Blindjack twisty turnpike roads across the Cheshire highlands in winter. They'd arrive down in our mill towns with chains on their wheels and conductresses in navy blue greatcoats.

dh

[coachmann]

The most heroic always seemed to be the Macclesfield garage's old pre-war Bristol Ls with coachlike ECW cut away canopy bodies battling up the Cat & Fiddle and Rainow to Kettleshulme former Blindjack twisty turnpike roads across the Cheshire highlands in winter. They'd arrive down in our mill towns with chains on their wheels and conductresses in navy blue greatcoats.

 

I enjoyed reading your memories of the North Western around the Peaks. You were more fortunate than I because I rarely got to ride on the NWRC saloon. They were ,as you say, in all sorts of guises due to re-bodying and sometime re-chassis-ing. I found the pre-war high-radiator Bristols fascinating. The lowbridge deckers with upstairs side corridor were a bundle of fun and swayed frighteningly on roundabouts due to their weak nearside springs. NWRC shared the Greenfield and Uppermill routes with us and Manchester Corporation. I was idly fumbling with the catch on my Setright (ticket machine) one night when my last roll of tickets rolled off the open platform near Delph. I cadged a roll off a North Western bus going in the opposite direction and ended up on report the following day because the chief wanted to know why so many North Western tickets were found on my bus!

Edited May 27, 2018 by coachmann

[runs as required]

Thanks for responding to my post.

Did you ever drive any of those crash gearbox wartime 6 cylinder Gardner engined Guys - or those 5 cylinder Bristols ?

NWRCC fitted an overdrive that drivers would clunk into and cruise along clear straight upland roads at 50 odd. But why did NWRCC prefer the 5 LW for its hillclimbing routes (Biddulph and Matlock garages were others with hilly routes stocked with those saloons).

 

You've also pictured those N Wales Crosville Leyland Tigers; were any of them 'gearless' ?

The Ribble pre-war Leyland saloons (with Leyland bodies, which also shared Manchester LMS bus station with North Western) always made the most threatening tigerish growling noises as they manouved in the traffic out past the Corry Granada TV studios down Quay St. They were said to be 'gearless' buses.

dh

[coachmann]

Thanks for responding to my post.

Did you ever drive any of those crash gearbox wartime 6 cylinder Gardner engined Guys - or those 5 cylinder Bristols ?

NWRCC fitted an overdrive that drivers would clunk into and cruise along clear straight upland roads at 50 odd. But why did NWRCC prefer the 5 LW for its hillclimbing routes (Biddulph and Matlock garages were others with hilly routes stocked with those saloons).

 

You've also pictured those N Wales Crosville Leyland Tigers; were any of them 'gearless' ?

The Ribble pre-war Leyland saloons (with Leyland bodies, which also shared Manchester LMS bus station with North Western) always made the most threatening tigerish growling noises as they manouved in the traffic out past the Corry Granada TV studios down Quay St. They were said to be 'gearless' buses.

dh

The pre-selector box on my Daimler was scary enough. If the selector pedal wasn't fully depressed, it could prompt the pedal to shoot up a good length and trap the shinbone. So no, I never drove a crashbox Guy. I did however get into the habit of routinely double-declutching and other gearbox tricks taught to me by a friend on Crosville. It was said the 5LW's were lively if used in conjunction with gears. Certainly, Ashton-U-Lyne drivers got some good work out of their Gardners, but then they did out of their small-engine PD1's as well.

 

The Leyland 'Gearless' buses made a weird continuous droning noise as if there was plenty of slip. I seriously doubt if Crosville ran 'Gearless' buses even if they bought them second hand. The company was too fuel-conscious to 'feed' the gearless buses. In fact, it continued to specify crash gearboxes in its half-cab buses. One of the nicest gearbox I drove was in a postwar Crossley saloon, but the Leyland was a good 'un too. The AEC gate was rather too close together and one had to be very purposeful when going across the 'H'.

[coachmann]

These ancient looking Crossley Mancunians were still to be found on the streets of Ashton in 1954, in fact BTJ 626 had outlived its brothers by five years. DTE 327 had entered service two years later than BTJ in April 1939, but both were withdrawn in February 1955. Such a shame none were saved, but the chassis of one from Portsmouth has been saved. I heard it on a video a few years ago and most of the noise emanated from the gearbox whine, not unlike London Transport pre-war AEC's...

 

All the buses terminated in the cobbled square near Ashton's inside market or in adjacent streets and this picture sums it all up for me. Come departure time, several engines would start up in unison and buses would move off in all directions, some of them doing a 'U' turn as per this Guy Arab. FTE 887 re-entered service with this Crossley body in December 1952 and was withdrawn ten years later....

 

 FTD 287 is standing at the inside market after rebodying in 1955, but the mid 1950's design Crossley body looked rather incongruous on the wartime Guy chassis....

 

GTJ 521 Crossley DD42/3 was delivered to Ashton in Febraury 1947, the first bus to post-war specification. Seen standing inside the garage in Mossley Road shortly before withdrawal, the body shows signs of rebuilding with flush window pans...

 

PD2/40 No. 19 NTD entered service in June 1960 and looked smart with its Roe 28/37 body. It is just starting out on the Oldham - Hirst Cross- Stalybridge service when Ashton was running the weekday service. SHMD had it in the early 1950s'. Oldham Corporation only worked the Sunday service at this time and it was one of my duties that came around every 31 weeks in G-Group. One of the three operators had usually increased their fares in that time and so I doubt the Oldham crews ever bothered to learn the fares in that route ...

 

The very first rear engine buses were plain boxes but at least they looked functional (to my eyes), but some designers lost the plot in the 1960's. This unhappy looking specimen from Northern Counties with its high window line simply lacked balance. Pictured in Ashton's new bus station after the town square terminus was abandoned. The remainder of this batch were delivered after SELNEC took over.....

Edited May 28, 2018 by coachmann

[Chris M]

A few photos of coaches from various times

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris M]

Although based in Smethwick these coaches went across to Europe on private hire tours even as far back as the early 1950s - I think the first would have been to Italy in 1952 or 1953. Usually one or two trips each year.

 

High Savoy 1967

 

 No date or location on this but it is almost certainly somewhere in Switzerland and clearly in the early 1950s

 

 

[Chris M]

More photos can be found at

https://www.flickr.com/photos/48235702@N06/albums/72157627464817118/with/8039557853/

 

Its interesting to follow the career of a coach. I always liked 8750HA, a Harrington Legionnaire on a Bedford Val chassis with a Leyland (or maybe AEC) engine. I travelled to Rome in 1965 on this coach and saw the pope give his Easter blessing. I spent a lot of the journey sitting on the engine cover just inside the coach - just imagine anyone doing that nowadays.

 

https://flic.kr/p/dfqAEW

 

https://flic.kr/p/832EqH

 

https://goo.gl/images/TgFrwM

 

http://www.travellerhomes.co.uk/pictures/3675_700w.jpg

 

Although scrapped in the 1990s the rear axle lives on in another coach.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Chris M

[ColinK]

Some interesting photos and stories, many thanks.

 

I learnt to drive in a crash gearbox LUT Guy Arab, challenging. Part of the test was to change down 4-3-2-1 on a downhill gradient.

 

When working at Thameside there was a song in the office, ‘Its fun to work for SHMD’ to the tune of YMCA.

 

There was also an incident where one of the Scania double deckers was overtaken by one of its rear wheels!

[coachmann]

A few photos of coaches from various times

 I smiled when I saw the Morris minibus. McAlpines had scores of them except they were marked Austin.....Typical BMC of the time.  I helped that bit of real estate below became the Abergele bye-pass, now a small section of the A55 Expressway. That's me in the white shirt.......Minibus driver for 16 months carrying civil engineers & chainmen and acting ambulance.  Very heavy on steering and steering rod often bent. But nice and cosy in Winter....

Edited May 27, 2018 by coachmann

[PhilJ W]

Travelling home from Railex via the A414 we were pleasantly surprised to find ourselves behind a vintage Bedford SB/Duple coach. It is operated by this company. http://www.lodgecoaches.co.uk/index.php click on the site and then click on 'vintage fleet'.

[Fat Controller]

 I smiled when I saw the Morris minibus. McAlpines had scores of them except they were marked Austin.....Typical BMC of the time.  I helped that bit of real estate below became the Abergele bye-pass, now a small section of the A55 Expressway. That's me in the white shirt.......Minibus driver for 16 months carrying civil engineers & chainmen and acting ambulance.  Very heavy on steering and steering rod often bent. But nice and cosy in Winter....

WEB Buses 93.jpg

It could have been worse; the Standard Atlas, for example. Dad had one, to which he considered fitting a rigid tow-bar, as he spent so much time recovering it.

[coachmann]

Ashton Corporation shared trolleybus services with Manchester Corporation and the SHMD Board although the latter never owned any vehicles!  The pre-war and wartime examples were the only ones I rode on back in the very early 1950's when accompanying dad to work in Denton.  Most men worked Saturday morning as part of their normal week and on one such morning, he jumped on a trolleybus that had just left Ashton Town Hall. I didn't stand a chance, but when the trolley stopped and the dust-coated guard beckoned me, I legged it across the cobbled square just in time to hear him asking my dad what kind of father was he!  But dad laughed. That's how it was and he knew I wouldn't miss a bus next time! In fairness, only a fool ran for a trolley because of their rapid acceleration. GNA 66  was an all-Crossley new in 1940 and withdrawn in 1960. The postwar Crossey trolleybus behind it belonged to Ashton Corporation....

 

 

It wasn't until I went to Belle View in 1960 that I got to ride on the big-'uns, the all-Crossley Dominion six-leggers. The rear wheels were on an equalized beam and would start bouncing when the bus reached a particular speed. A guard told me that on Belle Vue dance nights,  it was interesting watching 16 pairs of boobs going up and down in unison on those huge inward facing back seats! New in 1951, No.1251 was withdrawn in 1963. We used to talk with the crews while laying over in Stevenson Square and we once saw one of the 4-wheelers being pushed on its batteries down the wrong side of the road while passing a May Day parade. May Day was a big event in Manchester and the pubs remained open all day....

Edited May 28, 2018 by coachmann

[Danemouth]

Larry,

 

Nice to see the Trolley Bus pictures - I remember the Cardiff Trolleys - they didn't finally disappear until 1970.

 

I for one would be interested in seeing more of these pictures.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Co-tr-Paul]

Nice to see interior shots, so often forgotten about but rekindles so many memories.

[coachmann]

Had we remained living in Gee Cross, I would have seen the new Trolleybus service terminating at the top of Apethorne Lane, but we left in 1947 and the trolleys didn't reach Gee Cross until three years later. Crossley Empire JVU 722, fleet No. 1215 stands in Piccadilly waiting to leave for Gee Cross. It was new in 1950 and withdrawn in February 1963. Note how the roof guttering extended horizontally past the rear window, unlike that on Ashtons identical post-war 'Empires'.

 

 

Ashton also bought locally built equipment for its share of the joint trolleybus services. ETE 814 is seen at Ashton market on the Manchester service. New in 1940, this Crossley vehicle lasted 20 years; quite a lot longer than the diesel buses. This was because they were not subjected to regular overhauls like motor buses and some got into a bad state particularly in Manchester fleet with water ingress on the top deck, yet they remained on the road.

 

 

Ashton's post-war purchases continued to go to Crossley and it too bought the 4-axle 'Empire'. LTC 733 is on the route 218 to Stalybridge which lay within the SHMD Board operating area, hence this operators inclusion in the partnership. The 'Board had no trolleybuses, but it did own a Thorneycroft tower wagon for maintaining the overhead equipment....

Edited May 29, 2018 by coachmann

[coachmann]

Following the trolleys brings me neatly to Manchester's Corporation Transport. I only have memory of one journey on one of its bogie trams from Hyde Town Hall to Manchester with Uncle Harry, my dad's youngest brother.  He told me years later that I had pestered him to take me on a 'big tram' and as the war was over, he decided to go down to Bassett-Lowke's shop on Corporation Street to see if he could obtain some parts for a live steam loco had been building. He said the journey was long and tedious (to him) and that we returned to Hyde quick-style on an express bus! But I do have vivid memories of hanging tightly onto my mothers hand waiting to cross the road around Christmas 1947-8 while tram after tram ground and banged around the corner from Piccadilly to the accompaniment of sparks dropping off the overhead wires....

 

 

I never rode on something as elderly as this Leyland Tiger, but I did sit in it having a cuppa at Cannon Street Bus Station when working the route 59 from Shaw to Manchester, not one of my favorite turns. Our group didn't have enough express workings to cover a 31 week cycle and so our turns were augmented by duties on other groups routes, hence the 59 trip, often doing one round trip while the regular crew went for a meal break or between a shift-change. This made G-Group unique in that we covered every single route operating out of Oldham. VR 5996 was new in March 1930 and was withdrawn in 1948. Between 1950 and 1962, it served as an employees canteen. It was sold for preservation but was subsequently cut up....

Edited May 29, 2018 by coachmann

[runs as required]

Thanks for more nostalgic posts.

Can't get used to Bearwood Coachs' HA Smethwick reg. being any other PSV than a Midland "Red"

I remember that MCTD Lion being used as a canteen; bogie trams from the Rising Sun into Albert Square  - and above all the treat of looking in Bassett- Lowke's windows..

  dh

 

PS

One question I always had about Crossley bodies was the necessity of their characteristic shallow rear windows on the upper deck as well as behind the lateral seats.over the rear wheels downstairs

I was told it was to provide stiffness over the rear platform, but this never appeared on their bodies for Liverpool Corpy's postwar bus fleet.

Edited May 29, 2018 by runs as required

[Gwiwer]

Larry,

 

Nice to see the Trolley Bus pictures - I remember the Cardiff Trolleys - they didn't finally disappear until 1970.

 

I for one would be interested in seeing more of these pictures.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

London, Pompey, Bournemouth and Maidstone fondly recalled here. Bournemouth even had a trolleybus turntable out at Jumpers Corner on the Christchurch Road because there wasn’t room for a turning circle.

[coachmann]

One question I always had about Crossley bodies was the necessity of their characteristic shallow rear windows on the upper deck as well as behind the lateral seats.over the rear wheels downstairs

I was told it was to provide stiffness over the rear platform, but this never appeared on their bodies for Liverpool Corpy's postwar bus fleet.

 

The post-war Crossley body structure made extensive use of stress panels inside the steel framing to give extra stiffness at the more highly stressed areas. The diagonal bracing over the rear wheel arch and the raised window level at the rear of both decks was intended to cope with the heavy platform loadings at rush hours and when football supporters were crowding this area.  Mancunians therefore had the chassis sides extended to carry the platform. Manchester's specification for the cantilever structure required it to be made especially strong, making it necessary to raise the lower line of the last two windows of both decks to accommodate extra deep stress panels.

 

 

 

Information taken from the book 'Crossley' by Mike Ayre, Chris Heaps and Alan Townsin. Mike Eyre very generously sent me a signed copy some years ago.

Edited May 29, 2018 by coachmann

[leopardml2341]

 

That there Leyland Tiger, you'd think in those days they would have been more fastidious in respect of the destination display

[coachmann]

Ashton corporation red, white & blue tram along with a Manchester corporation bogie car at Fairfield, Manchester before the war. I never saw an Ashton car as they were all withdrawn before the war...

 

 

A post-war scene at Hollinwood, the boundary between Manchester and Oldham. The rush-hour is over and tram No.948 stands in the fine rain waiting to return to the city while a pre-war Manchesetr Corporation titan swings onto the stand on route 34, a short limited stop working between Oldham and Manchester. Following behind is an Oldham Leyland TD5 with English Electric body on the busy '0' route between Lees and Hollinwood....

 

One of Manchester pre-war Leyland TD5's with standard Leyland body modified to resemble the 'Mancunian' body style although it had a more upright front.....

 

Manchester also bought Daimler COG chassis and some were still to be seen on the streets in 1960. I worked in the city from mid 1958 to December 1959 and rather took them for granted as I didn't think they were particularity attractive buses....

 

This superb image of a pre-war Crossley Mancunian sums it all up for me. I must have rode on them when we lived in Hyde, but my abiding memory is of one turning up in Oldham on limited stop service around 1950. I knew what it was as soon as I saw the large radiator, although I seem to recall it was chrome. It had high back seats and my mother found us a seat right at the front nearside later in the journey to Manchester so I could look out along the bonnet.  Half-day closing in Oldham meant many shop workers in the town traveled to the big city on Tuesday afternoons. Mum was no exception and happened to drag me along that day....

[johnd]

Larry love you stories and reminiscences of the transport in the Manchester/Oldham/Ashton side of the area. 

 

Have you visited the Bus museum at Boyle Street behind Queens Road Bus Depot in Cheetham Hill, Manchester.  Motor Buses and a couple of Trolley busses from bygone days on display and some occasionally out on the road .

 

http://gmts.co.uk/.

 

I wonder where the Leyland TD5 on the  No 2 was photographed. that picture was a bit before my time. Wasn't the No 2 limited stop whilst in the Manchester area but the moment it crossed to Chadderton, Oldham it became all stops. The No 2 from memory was a joint service by Oldham Corporation/ Manchester Corporation and North Western Road Car Company and ran at a 20 minute interval.

Edited May 29, 2018 by johnd