Route Knowledge

[D854_Tiger]

Nowadays, in these days of exacting standards, drivers need to be familiar with a route before they are allowed to drive it.

 

But has it always been so, I've read stories that suggest arrangements weren't always quite so strictly adhered to.

 

Stories of unfamiliar drivers along the Cambrian main line, phoning the signalman to ask where they were, and, on the first day of the GE electrification, drivers learning the new signal and track arrangement as they went along.

 

Was it ever the case, where drivers were ever sent over a route, perhaps a little used one, and told just find your way.

 

Not a route learning issue but I did read an article once about the G&SW and how a driver (a well known speed merchant), in the early hours of one particularly stormy night, was sent out with a light engine to check the line was clear of any fallen trees.

 

His preferred method for doing so was to break the world speed record for Glasgow to Carlisle via Dumfries.

 

[mjkerr]

In some respects the recording of this training has changed, but the requirements are still the same as they were about 20 years ago

 

Drivers are required to know a route AND rolling stock

The route knowledge used to be an initial proof, which was valid for three years

An annual renewal would be required

If the annual renewal was failed, then a new proof would be required

 

A driver would not be permitted on any route they did not know

Hence why if a planned diversion was due, then a quick renewal may be required or other train operators staff would be required

This was quite common on InterCity services between Edinburgh and Aberdeen, diverted by Perth, which required ScotRail staff between Perth and Dundee

[LMS2968]

Route knowledge has always, from very early days, been a requirement before a driver or guard was allowed to work over a route. Both had to sign their route card to say that they knew the road, and it was necessary that they had worked over it a specified number of times (the number escapes me) and they also had to keep that knowledge 'current' by working over the route at least once in a twelve month period, if memory serves.

 

There were several accident report where the Inspector has passed doubt on a driver's knowledge, that at Ditton Junction was an example of one where that knowledge was inadequate. http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_Ditton1912.pdf

[The Johnster]

When I was working on the railway as a freight guard at Canton in the early 70s, route knowledge was a matter of signing that you were familiar with the route, after which you would be expected to work train over it and cope with anything that came up; you would certainly be expected to know where you were, which is not as easy as it might first appear on a dark, country route at night in fog!  But it was a matter of trust and your own conscience, in that there was no formal way of checking that you actually had the knowledge you professed to have!

 

By and large we were pretty honest about it, given that if an incident occurred in which our knowledge was found to be inadequate it would be ourselves that would be held responsible for the consequences, but no doubt men were able to sign for routes that they hadn't learned properly in order to gain better work and make better pay.  The matter was of more significance to drivers, who generally took it a bit more seriously.

 

We were allowed a week to learn a route, after which we were expected to sign for it, and I would attempt to have runs over it in a brake van, and in a driving cab, and at night if that was possible, but it wasn't always; for instance I was unable to gain experience of the Swansea District Line with a brake van, as Canton's work over that route was all fully fitted oil trains in those days.  

[cb900f]

If memory serves me.

 

Route knowledge requirements for a driver were different to those of a guard, in that it stated on the relevant route card that a guard had to be familiar with the route whereas a driver had to be fully conversant with the route.

 

Pete

[roythebus]

As a driver in the 1980s I had to be fully conversant with every route in a particular link before I could drive on it. that included working in sun,rain, fog, falling snow, day, night, the route is different in all these circumstances. Every driver I knew would not work over a route he hadn't signed for. Unlike today's "boil-in-the-bag" drivers, we were not allowed to run at reduced speed in fog, we had to know where we were and keep to time! 

 

At my depot, Waterloo, we were allowed a "reasonable time" to sign a route, there was no fixed plan, we were just trusted to go out and learn it! Any driver who didn't actually know the route would be in deep poo if anything untoward happened and it was found he didn't actually know a route he had signed for.

 

One amusing incident when I was 2nd man at Kings Cross, one of the passed men (a secondman passed for driving) fancied himself as a main line driver as he'd worked the Newcastle road for a couple of years and signed it), was approached by the foreman one day. "Mr. C, do you sign Newcastle"? "Yes Ken", with eyes lighting up at the chance of a main line driving turn. "In that case, you'll know Holloway Sidings, go out and relieve driver Y on the pilot".

 

Route knowledge had to include all sidings too!

[Rugd1022]

These days we're required to put in for a refresher if we've not been over a route (or part of a route) for six months, this means we have to keep thinking back a few months at a time so we can anticipate putting the refresher in. It can be very awkward i nreality as it means releasing a driver from a booked job just to go out and refresh the road. This happened to me earlier this year when I was booked to work between Melton Mowbray and Syston Junction, I realised I'd signed the road two years previous but had only driven over it in the eatsbound direction!

[The Stationmaster]

There was a lot of tightening up in the early 1990s when 'norms' were introduced and efforts were made to get them universally applied - not always with success at some depots/on some Regions.  Part of the reason for this was to try to reduce the incidence of SPADs where it was increasingly coming to light that poor route knowledge and frequency of working over was a factor although there were other considerations as, for example on the Western, we increasingly sectorised work for a variety butt including handling frequency.

 

When privatisation came along the general situation which developed was that operators were responsible for assessing routes and producing norms to suit the risk assessment plus, of course, proper working over frequency records needed to be kept,  Obviously some operators were not exactly up to this task and there have been at least two serious SPADs where poor route knowledge was clearly a contributory factor even if RAIB's Reports didn't emphasise the fact too strongly.  And of course someone who knows a road properly and really thoroughly will also know where the under-braked signals are and where poor sighting exists and adjust accordingly - which can be critical if running at near linespeed on double yellows.

 

The point Roy has made about knowing the road in all shades of daylight and darkness  and weather conditions is very important and again can be critical when related to the incidence of SPADs especially at night when many landmarks cease to be visible and a good Driver will always know a road as much from what he feels as from seeing anything outside the cab.  Just try running at full tilt in HST when visibiilty is down to about 50 yards and stopping in exactly the right place at stations (or red signals of course) - the only 'landmarks' you're going to see are signals, bridges and station platforms and you'll see very little at the lineside; everything else has to be by feel.

 

 

Going back to 'the old days' there was no doubt a lot more laissez faire when it came to road knowledge.  As I've recounted before one Sunday when we were Single Line Working down the Berks & Hants and Old Oak Driver was asked 'to pull down clear of the dummy so we can set you back across the road'  (to get the train onto the opposite line which was being used as the Single Line and the reply came 'what effin' dummy?'  He'd worked over that line off and on for years - so much for knowing every single.  Oddly about 7 years later I encountered the same Driver when we were diverting West of England trains via Yeovil on an emergency diversion and when he refused to set back onto the single line to Castle Cary after a train had left for Cary I had to use the signalbox copy of the General Appendix to convince him it was a legitimate move - nowadays one huge improvement is that Drivers' Rules & Regs knowledge is like everybody else's and subject to regular reassessment.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Chairing a Signal Risk Assessment meeting nearly 20 years ago the FOC representative blithely stated that his drivers didn't really need route knowledge because his trains only travelled at 60mph and the line speed was 125mph. He didn't attend the subsequent meetings because he was rapidly taken out of the job when the RT Operating boss complained to the FOC management about his knowledge of train operating. 

[The Johnster]

There was a lot of tightening up in the early 1990s when 'norms' were introduced and efforts were made to get them universally applied - not always with success at some depots/on some Regions.  Part of the reason for this was to try to reduce the incidence of SPADs where it was increasingly coming to light that poor route knowledge and frequency of working over was a factor although there were other considerations as, for example on the Western, we increasingly sectorised work for a variety butt including handling frequency.

 

When privatisation came along the general situation which developed was that operators were responsible for assessing routes and producing norms to suit the risk assessment plus, of course, proper working over frequency records needed to be kept,  Obviously some operators were not exactly up to this task and there have been at least two serious SPADs where poor route knowledge was clearly a contributory factor even if RAIB's Reports didn't emphasise the fact too strongly.  And of course someone who knows a road properly and really thoroughly will also know where the under-braked signals are and where poor sighting exists and adjust accordingly - which can be critical if running at near linespeed on double yellows.

 

The point Roy has made about knowing the road in all shades of daylight and darkness  and weather conditions is very important and again can be critical when related to the incidence of SPADs especially at night when many landmarks cease to be visible and a good Driver will always know a road as much from what he feels as from seeing anything outside the cab.  Just try running at full tilt in HST when visibiilty is down to about 50 yards and stopping in exactly the right place at stations (or red signals of course) - the only 'landmarks' you're going to see are signals, bridges and station platforms and you'll see very little at the lineside; everything else has to be by feel.

 

 

Going back to 'the old days' there was no doubt a lot more laissez faire when it came to road knowledge.  As I've recounted before one Sunday when we were Single Line Working down the Berks & Hants and Old Oak Driver was asked 'to pull down clear of the dummy so we can set you back across the road'  (to get the train onto the opposite line which was being used as the Single Line and the reply came 'what effin' dummy?'  He'd worked over that line off and on for years - so much for knowing every single.  Oddly about 7 years later I encountered the same Driver when we were diverting West of England trains via Yeovil on an emergency diversion and when he refused to set back onto the single line to Castle Cary after a train had left for Cary I had to use the signalbox copy of the General Appendix to convince him it was a legitimate move - nowadays one huge improvement is that Drivers' Rules & Regs knowledge is like everybody else's and subject to regular reassessment.

 

And no bad thing in my view; the old laissez faire approach relied heavily on traincrews' basic honesty and desire to protect themselves if anything occurred that triggered an inquiry, and sometimes not everybody was as scrupulously honest or self protective as they could have been, especially when route knowledge was the key to higher earnings on night, rest day, or weekend work.  At the time I started in the job there was a lot of talk about guards signing routes 'back cab only', i.e. not competent to work over it in a brake van because they didn't know where the banks were, or even 'daylight only', nonsenses that I would personally have no truck with, but sadly that was the way the job was going in those days, and I'm surprised that some individuals, footplate as well as guards but it has to be said guards were the worst offenders, didn't get into more trouble than they actually did!

 

In 1976 I was put on to Valleys passenger work, which I didn't want, and when I complained that I didn't know the routes properly, which would have included every colliery and all the incline working instructions, jobs done by Mike's Radyr men and not us Canton boys, was simply told that my knowledge was more than adequate for passenger train working and to get on with it.  Of course, I was trying to blag my way back into the freight links, and could hardly claim any moral high ground.

[Classsix T]

Maybe Big Jim can elaborate on this, but we've recently had Colas 56 jobs down our way.

My understanding is that the Colas drivers are in charge of the loco, but as they're so infrequent on the GEML (making route knowledge uneconomic), they'll have a DRS, Freightliner or EWS pilotman betwixt Ely and Stratford.

 

C6T.

[The Stationmaster]

And no bad thing in my view; the old laissez faire approach relied heavily on traincrews' basic honesty and desire to protect themselves if anything occurred that triggered an inquiry, and sometimes not everybody was as scrupulously honest or self protective as they could have been, especially when route knowledge was the key to higher earnings on night, rest day, or weekend work.  At the time I started in the job there was a lot of talk about guards signing routes 'back cab only', i.e. not competent to work over it in a brake van because they didn't know where the banks were, or even 'daylight only', nonsenses that I would personally have no truck with, but sadly that was the way the job was going in those days, and I'm surprised that some individuals, footplate as well as guards but it has to be said guards were the worst offenders, didn't get into more trouble than they actually did!

 

In 1976 I was put on to Valleys passenger work, which I didn't want, and when I complained that I didn't know the routes properly, which would have included every colliery and all the incline working instructions, jobs done by Mike's Radyr men and not us Canton boys, was simply told that my knowledge was more than adequate for passenger train working and to get on with it.  Of course, I was trying to blag my way back into the freight links, and could hardly claim any moral high ground.

 

Interestingly we had a Driver's link at Radyr of 12 men who were known as 'the Dirty Dozen' - especially by Aberdare men (yes, the Grouping never happened in the Valleys).  These 12 worked our two Manned Conditional trains on each shift plus two ballast jobs and the link included some rather crafty clever charcaters who used their route Refreshing days to learn and sign ever further afield.  Officially we didn't go east of Swindon but several signed to Acton however on one occasion I was looking for a particular Driver only to be told he was out 'refreshing Acton' - it was his RR day.

 

I therefore grabbed hold of his route card which made very interesting reading and on his return I had some words with him.  Noting that he signed the road 'via Chippingham' I asked him a few questions about that route starting with the stations.  I quickly found out that in addition to his inability to spell Chippenham (despite it being named in the Sectional Appendix he claimed to have - and could actually produce) his knowledge was distinctly hazy to say the least.  So I duly suggested that he should cross off any roads 'he wasn't sure about' - an unusual step back in the 1970s when such things were indeed heavily based on trust and honesty but quite bluntly my lack of trust in his honesty left me no real choice.

 

Incidentally when I examined Guards on Rules I always used scenario questions based on the roads they signed just to see if their knowledge (and it was still 'knowledge' back then) was as good as they had put their name to.  Over the years at several different depots I only ever had one who desperately failed to come up to scratch - with a minimum of persuasion he ceased to be a Guard and went back on the station platform.  Best of all were the good ones who was soon as I named a stretch of line told me what questions I was likely to ask them and the answers to my questions - before I asked them; very enjoyable when examining folk that good.

[Metr0Land]

What happens if there's a sudden disruption (eg landslip, bridge collapse, unexploded bomb etc) and a train is already en route when the signallar has no option but to send the train over a diversionary route?

 

I understand that the driver is meant to query the route setting if he doesn't sign that road, but what happens if said driver doesn't sign that route?  Does he have to sit there awaiting a pilotman/relief driver or what?

[LMS2968]

Yes. A pilotman would have to be sent. After the first disrupted train, of course, things SHOULD work automatically.

[The Stationmaster]

What happens if there's a sudden disruption (eg landslip, bridge collapse, unexploded bomb etc) and a train is already en route when the signallar has no option but to send the train over a diversionary route?

 

I understand that the driver is meant to query the route setting if he doesn't sign that road, but what happens if said driver doesn't sign that route?  Does he have to sit there awaiting a pilotman/relief driver or what?

 

Simples - he doesn't go until such time as a  Conductor Driver can be found and the train has to sit and wait.  With regular diversionary routes it can be the practice on some companies to ensure diversionary route knowledge is maintained ready for such eventualities - either by refresher days or, far more economically, by having a few trains timetabled via the most likely diversionary routes in order to keep knowledge up.  Thus on Great Western for example most if not all Drivers working Paddington - West of England should know all three basic routes, i.e. via Lavington, via Melksham, or via Bristol while other permutations will exist for other routes.  Equally when running from Waterloo Eurostar Drivers knew a number of different routes between Waterloo and the Tunnel.

 

But maintaining diversionary knowledge is expensive and has to be justified so it won't always happen and it can be cheaper to hire in Conductors (if they're available) or train Drivers up specially prior to big jobs such as diverting trains from South Wales and Bristol to London via Banbury.

[The Stationmaster]

Yes. A pilotman would have to be sent. After the first disrupted train, of course, things SHOULD work automatically.

Sorry to put in the 'laugh' but 'should' can be a very sort of 'unusual' event in some cases - as you were no doubt implying with those capitals

[D854_Tiger]

What happens if there's a sudden disruption (eg landslip, bridge collapse, unexploded bomb etc) and a train is already en route when the signallar has no option but to send the train over a diversionary route?

 

I understand that the driver is meant to query the route setting if he doesn't sign that road, but what happens if said driver doesn't sign that route?  Does he have to sit there awaiting a pilotman/relief driver or what?

 

I believe there are no exceptions the driver must know the route in order to be diverted.

 

I once saw such a debate from the front of a DMU, a Worcester - Birmingham train, we had been stopped for a red a Smethwick West, the driver phoned the signalman, then had a quick conference with the guard, returned to the phone and almost immediately the signal cleared and off we went.

 

Into New Street via the Soho Loop, Perry Bar and Aston, from the train at Smethwick we could overhear the Worcestershire driver checking if his guard knew the way, something that made one or two of the passengers chuckle.

[D854_Tiger]

Simples - he doesn't go until such time as a  Conductor Driver can be found and the train has to sit and wait.  With regular diversionary routes it can be the practice on some companies to ensure diversionary route knowledge is maintained ready for such eventualities - either by refresher days or, far more economically, by having a few trains timetabled via the most likely diversionary routes in order to keep knowledge up.  Thus on Great Western for example most if not all Drivers working Paddington - West of England should know all three basic routes, i.e. via Lavington, via Melksham, or via Bristol while other permutations will exist for other routes.  Equally when running from Waterloo Eurostar Drivers knew a number of different routes between Waterloo and the Tunnel.

 

But maintaining diversionary knowledge is expensive and has to be justified so it won't always happen and it can be cheaper to hire in Conductors (if they're available) or train Drivers up specially prior to big jobs such as diverting trains from South Wales and Bristol to London via Banbury.

 

 

There are a whole series of early morning / late evening XC trains that are so routed to ensure diversionary knowledge is retained, including such delights as Stechford - Aston, Kingsbury Junction - Whitacre Junction, the Lifford Curve, Lichfield TV, Beighton Junction, the joint line via Pontefract and I believe one is even routed into Sheffield via Rotherham Central and Tinsley South.

 

There are other routes the drivers must be prepared to be sent without notice, such as the Mosely line and the Grand Junction route between Wolverhampton and New St.

[LMS2968]

Sorry to put in the 'laugh' but 'should' can be a very sort of 'unusual' event in some cases - as you were no doubt implying with those capitals

Indeed! I spent many a happy hour at a signal cleared for a wrong route, where we quite a way down a list of trains facing an unplanned diversion.

 

To be fair to control, it wasn't always easy to find at short notice men who had signed the road, and then there was the problem of getting them to the effected junction, which might be a long way from any depot.

[HillsideDepot]

On the subject of maintaining route knowledge, back in the 1980s the Malago Vale - Old Oak empty news vans would often run via Bradford Junction rather than straight Up the Mainline through Box. The Bradford route doesn't show in the Working Time Tables of the period, but I assume the detour was for route refreshing purposes. We'd see it from the school fields and it would either canter through at about 70, or crawl through as it set down the single line token at Chippenham.

 

A current one is that a late night Cross Country service departs west from Didcot before reversing around the West Curve and heading on its way north. I've watched it on the signalling diagrams website and there appear to be no line closures in the area, so it looks like a booked move. I can only think that's for route knowledge purposes. It's only a short section, but there isn't any other way of covering it.

 

With diversions and Pilotmen I am reminded of a tale told by our Driving Examiner at Bath bus station who was returning by train from conducting a test at Weston-Super-Mare. As he was in bus inspector uniform it was inevitable that, on a busy train, a railwayman chose the empty seat opposite and conversation soon ensued. Barely out of Temple Meads the train halted and after a while the pa cracked into life as the Guard apologised for the delay, explaining that the train ahead (a charter) was stopped awaiting a Pilotman. "That's interesting" said the railwayman opposite my colleague "I'm his Pilot!". Fortunately the charter train driver knew the mainline through Bath, but not down the Avon Valley to Westbury so it was arranged that he would proceed to Bathampton Loop and the Pilotman would travel in the cab of the HST from Bath Spa and be dropped off at Bathampton. All that took some time to work out and communicate to all those who needed to know, and gave my colleague a talking point when he returned to the office.

[kevinlms]

Route knowledge has always, from very early days, been a requirement before a driver or guard was allowed to work over a route. Both had to sign their route card to say that they knew the road, and it was necessary that they had worked over it a specified number of times (the number escapes me) and they also had to keep that knowledge 'current' by working over the route at least once in a twelve month period, if memory serves.

 

There were several accident report where the Inspector has passed doubt on a driver's knowledge, that at Ditton Junction was an example of one where that knowledge was inadequate. http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_Ditton1912.pdf

So if the route knowledge is coming up for renewal, I presume its up to the driver to advise his management of the situation, beforehand?

[The Johnster]

So if the route knowledge is coming up for renewal, I presume its up to the driver to advise his management of the situation, beforehand?

 

 

That was certainly the case when I was on the railway in the 70s, though modern h & e regimes may have tightened up on it a bit.  

[D854_Tiger]

I wonder how route knowledge is retained over those routes that have little or no regular traffic.

 

The Long Marston line springs to mind or Mantle Lane - Burton.

[big jim]

These days we're required to put in for a refresher if we've not been over a route (or part of a route) for six months, this means we have to keep thinking back a few months at a time so we can anticipate putting the refresher in.

We're quite lucky as we have an electronic route card that is uploaded after every trip, basically my work phone has an app that records my route by gps (obviously it's out of sight, out of view, on silent etc) and at the end of a trip I upload the info to a server that updates my route and traction knowledge in real time, I can check from the phone at any time what routes are requiring a refresh and put in for a refresh accordingly, regards route learning I know most tics don't allow phones on in the cab at all, even out of sight so if I've been out on those trains I can email the route manager direct to say I have refreshed/learnt a route on a certain day and he inputs the data manually

 

I can set it to different modes such as refresh, when you are driving, learning, obviously when you are learning a new route or cab ride where I am in the 2nd mans seat assessing someone for example

 

I was a but dubious of it at first but now I use it every day it's just part of the job and 2nd nature and handy to see what you have done, it even has a map showing what routes you have been over but not yet uploaded which is interesting when you see how you twist and turn around an area on certain jobs

 

Maybe Big Jim can elaborate on this, but we've recently had Colas 56 jobs down our way.

My understanding is that the Colas drivers are in charge of the loco, but as they're so infrequent on the GEML (making route knowledge uneconomic), they'll have a DRS, Freightliner or EWS pilotman betwixt Ely and Stratford.

C6T.

Colas do have a few drivers who sign Ely-Stratford etc but not the traction so we try to keep it 'in house' rather than hire in, I did it a few weeks back in fact with one of our guys on a ferme park to marks tey back to Liverpool st job with 37057

 

Occasionally there are routes you can't get down purely because of the lack of services down there, for those in the past I've consulted the sectional appendix, visited by road, visited signal boxes en route etc to get the basics in then consulted (if available) route learning videos (a lot of useful stuff can be found on you tube) aylesbury to Claydon and over to Bicester had to be done like that as nothing used it at the time of my working it, the first trip on it I had a tamper driver with me conducting who then signed me off on it

 

The likes of Liverpool docks for the class 70s over the past few months as I already sign it but not been over for a long time was also a case of going down by van, speaking to the Shunter (Michael Delamar as it happened!) to check methods of work hadn't changed, checking out the local area (as it happened there was a new Shunter operated crossing installed since I was last there), checking sectional appendix' for any speed or infrastructure changes etc before bringing the locos off there

 

I've got to put Bicester to oxford on my card at some point, that I can get over easily enough but there are some cracking videos on YouTube done by a Marylebone driver of the route in both directions, well worth a look prior to physically visiting the line for a few days learning to get the basics in

 

My biggest annoyance is when I start to learn somewhere and then get taken off for other things, a prime example is next week, I started to learn the heart of wales line as far as Llandridnod wells couple of years back and had enough days on it to be assessed and passed out but nothing came of it then next week I have a ballast drop down there so will have to be conducted over it, similarly, when learning, not being able to get on passenger trains is also annoying when there are new drivers or other drivers under instruction/on a plan etc, I have really struggled to get kidsgrove to cheadle hulme done, again, done plenty of trips on it but just need another day to be sure so I can be assessed on it, and what job do I have next week, colwich to Manchester via macclesfield so again I'll have to be conducted over it!

[PM47079]

That app sounds like a very useful device. It would actually be handy if our control had access to our routes as they freely admit they don't know who signs diversionary routes and sometimes time is of the essence when network rail need to know if they can divert someone