Hornby R6828 HFA Hopper Wagons, Barry - Three Wagon Pack

[37403]

Hi guys,

 

Has anyone else ordered the above wagons? My pre-order arrived on Saturday and what a disappointment. The pre-order images clearly displayed the high quality versions with metal buffers, small couplings, hoods, and a half decent under frame.....the £48 price I feel reflected this.

Upon opening, I was extremely disappointed to find that the wagons are the old railroad range..they look terrible.

I've taken this up with the trader I purchased from and they agree that the models while not traded as railroad clearly are.

 

Does anyone else have the same disappointment?

[bescotbeast]

Hi guys,

 

Has anyone else ordered the above wagons? My pre-order arrived on Saturday and what a disappointment. The pre-order images clearly displayed the high quality versions with metal buffers, small couplings, hoods, and a half decent under frame.....the £48 price I feel reflected this.

Upon opening, I was extremely disappointed to find that the wagons are the old railroad range..they look terrible.

I've taken this up with the trader I purchased from and they agree that the models while not traded as railroad clearly are.

 

Does anyone else have the same disappointment?

I noticed this pack and as you state, it's the new tooling model in the pictures.

[scottrains29]

It's being discussed on the Engine Shed topic:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97313-the-engine-shed/page-42

 

Apparently, Hattons are contacting Hornby today about the error.

[Mark Saunders]

Send them back as they are not what you expected and get a full refund!

 

Was this direct from Hornby!

 

Mark Saunders

[The Johnster]

H need all the friends they can muster right now, and this sort of slip up, which would be just one of those things normally, is likely in the current circumstances to be interpreted as an indication of exactly the sort of lack of rigour that has got them into the mess they are trying to dig themselves out of.  Hopefully they will replace your substandard Railroad wagons with proper ones, so that you will be able to put up a post about what good service you received to redress the balance; you would certainly be justified in having a go if they don't!

[Hilux5972]

Just been in touch with Hattons and they are still awaiting a response from Hornby. They are going to email me directly when Hornby does reply.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Hilux5972

[Hilux5972]

This the response I just received. Pretty poor on Hornbys part. False advertising in my eyes:

 

Good Afternoon,

 

I am writing in regards to our earlier Live Chat conversation.

 

We have now received a response from Hornby who have confirmed that the model R6828 has been produced with the railroad tooling. This is the version supplied to all retailers and unfortunately super detail models of these wagons are not currently available. We are however being sent stock of 'hoods' to affix to the top of the wagons and these can be sent on request to any customers who have already purchased this product. We are also able to accept a return for a full refund if required. If you wish to either return the product or to receive the additional 'hood' it would be appreciated if you could get in contact with us and we will be able to confirm the procedure.

 

I hope this clarifies matters for you but if you have any further questions then please feel free to contact us.

 

Kind Regards

 

Judith Allsop

Help Desk Assistant

Hatton's Model Railways

[Mark Saunders]

This the response I just received. Pretty poor on Hornbys part. False advertising in my eyes:

Good Afternoon,

I am writing in regards to our earlier Live Chat conversation.

We have now received a response from Hornby who have confirmed that the model R6828 has been produced with the railroad tooling. This is the version supplied to all retailers and unfortunately super detail models of these wagons are not currently available. We are however being sent stock of 'hoods' to affix to the top of the wagons and these can be sent on request to any customers who have already purchased this product. We are also able to accept a return for a full refund if required. If you wish to either return the product or to receive the additional 'hood' it would be appreciated if you could get in contact with us and we will be able to confirm the procedure.

I hope this clarifies matters for you but if you have any further questions then please feel free to contact us.

Kind Regards

Judith Allsop

Help Desk Assistant

Hatton's Model Railways

This reply is similar in tone to one I from Hattons about Evergreen section it appears that some staff there do not understand what they are selling, in this case not realising it is more than the missing topskips but a different model!

 

Mark Saunders

[Ian Hargrave]

Might I suggest you contact Hornby direct on this issue...that would seem to be a much more appropriate way forward. Hattons offering a refund is the easy way out and I understand that but it isn't going to deal properly with the matter.

[phil-b259]

This reply is similar in tone to one I from Hattons about Evergreen section it appears that some staff there do not understand what they are selling, in this case not realising it is more than the missing topskips but a different model!

 

Mark Saunders

 

To be fair what exactly do you expect Hattons to do? Hornby are manifestly not going to bin all the models they have produced - even if it is the wrong tooling. Moreover depending on the contract Hatton's have with Hornby, its entirely possible that they (and indeed other retailers) are now stuck with what they have ordered and need to shift them somehow.

 

It would be nice to think that a downwards price revision would occur - but again Hatton's are not going to do that if everyone else is still charging RRP or Hornby also don't cut a deal to refund part of the wholesale price that retailers have paid for the goods.

 

If you look at retail generally there are plenty of cases where the end product doesn't look like the promised item - and in most cases retailers take the attitude that they will refund people who ordered in advance but for those ordering after the product has arrived and can be inspected its very much a case of Buyers beware.

[37403]

Very poor response in my opinion. As stated, they are missing the point. This is not a £48 box of three models yet were sold on that premise and no amount of hoods will compensate for that.

I feel sorry for the retailers having to deal with this now. 

[phil-b259]

This the response I just received. Pretty poor on Hornbys part. False advertising in my eyes:

 

 

Its not false advertising - everyone INCLUDING Hornby expected these items to turn up having been made using the new tooling - which is why all the advertising featured the high spec variant. Yes there are significant questions over a lack of quality control at Hornby (as in they should be employing people capable of knowing the difference between 'railroad' and 'high spec' models) but that doesn't have any relevance to the marketing previously undertaken by retailers / Hornby.

 

However now that the issue has been discovered, then yes immediate action needs to be taken by retailers (and Hornby) to alter the advertising to reflect the product that is actually being sold. Whether potential customers will put up with a 'Railroad' model at 'high spec' prices is a moot point, but as ling as the advertising is corrected, buyers cannot claim they were left in the dark as to the accidental change in specification

[Ian Hargrave]

Just looked on the Rails website.The set box sleeve appears not to make reference to Railroad.

[Mark Saunders]

Talk to Hornby direct as even their website shows the recent tooling of these!

 

Mark Saunders

[phil-b259]

Very poor response in my opinion. As stated, they are missing the point. This is not a £48 box of three models yet were sold on that premise and no amount of hoods will compensate for that.

I feel sorry for the retailers having to deal with this now. 

 

Again what do you expect them to do? Recall all the models and chuck them in the skip? good luck on convincing the accountants that is a good idea. Equally the finance people are not going to thank you for slashing the price now, particularly when Hornby are still not out of the woods yet financially.

 

Sorry, as much as it might leave a bad taste in the mouth, what retailers / Hornby have done is what any sane business in a similar position would do - try and salvage as much profit as possible from what is a pretty significant (and costly screw up) in the supply chain. Yes the item as delivered might not be as high quality as expected, but they are not dangerous, they are not something completely different (e.g. a box van instead of a hopper) and they presumably will run quite satisfactory on Hornby track.

 

At the end of the day money talks - If hardly anyone buys these then after a few months retailers /  Hornby will be forced to cut the price and take a financial hit, but in the meantime they will gladly take money from people who don't care or for whom the offer to supply the missing hood is good enough.

[phil-b259]

Just looked on the Rails website.The set box sleeve appears not to make reference to Railroad.

 

It wouldn't do!

 

Hornby expected these to have been made by their Chinese factory using the high spec tooling. The box artwork and all the advertising was based around this.

 

The Chinese factory used the Railroad moulds instead - and nobody discovered this still the models started arriving on peoples doorsteps (which I do find a little hard to believe because I would have thought it was obvious to any experienced retailer that something looked wrong with them when they were unpacked)

[tetsudofan]

Its not false advertising - everyone INCLUDING Hornby expected these items to turn up having been made using the new tooling - which is why all the advertising featured the high spec variant. Yes there are significant questions over a lack of quality control at Hornby (as in they should be employing people capable of knowing the difference between 'railroad' and 'high spec' models) but that doesn't have any relevance to the marketing previously undertaken by retailers / Hornby.

 

However now that the issue has been discovered, then yes immediate action needs to be taken by retailers (and Hornby) to alter the advertising to reflect the product that is actually being sold. Whether potential customers will put up with a 'Railroad' model at 'high spec' prices is a moot point, but as ling as the advertising is corrected, buyers cannot claim they were left in the dark as to the accidental change in specification

 

Sorry but I think you are talking a load of rubbish. It was advertised as a full fat model ..... and still is on the Hornby website.... and what was delivered was something completely different.

 

Keith

[woodenhead]

I saw a box of these in Arcadia on Saturday - nothing to indicate they were Railroad and the box clearly stated 'With Canopy' which is not on the wagon or apparently in the box.

 

Would trade description apply - what is in the box isn't what has been described?

[phil-b259]

 

Would trade description apply - what is in the box isn't what has been described?

 

It would if you had pre-ordered or ordered from the internet and the retailer was using the pre-production pictures.

 

In such a situation you would certainly be able to return the item for a refund on the basis that what was supplied was not that which was ordered.

 

However, if you walk into a shop and purchase them over the counter then you have no comeback (as far as appearance goes) - you have ample opportunity to inspect the goods before purchase and if you do go ahead and buy the item, you are indicating that you are happy with the look / appearance of the product.

[Mark Saunders]

I saw a box of these in Arcadia on Saturday - nothing to indicate they were Railroad and the box clearly stated 'With Canopy' which is not on the wagon or apparently in the box.

 

Would trade description apply - what is in the box isn't what has been described?

Distance selling regulations also apply!

 

The Hornby site has one picture and Hattons another or it does at the time of posting!

 

Mark Saunders

Edited June 26, 2017 by Mark Saunders

[Ian Hargrave]

It wouldn't do!

 

Hornby expected these to have been made by their Chinese factory using the high spec tooling. The box artwork and all the advertising was based around this.

 

The Chinese factory used the Railroad moulds instead - and nobody discovered this still the models started arriving on peoples doorsteps (which I do find a little hard to believe because I would have thought it was obvious to any experienced retailer that something looked wrong with them when they were unpacked)

 

Oh really.....? Well that being the case,little wonder we label some of our retailers.."box shifters".Cast your mind back to what I have previously referred to...the release of a new batch of faux teak Thompson coaches. One retailer did spot the livery application errors..and got it posted on this forum.So fortunately some are a good deal more conscientious than others.

 

This is a genuine mistake that didn't get picked up when it should have been...hey ho...

[Enterprisingwestern]

It would if you had pre-ordered or ordered from the internet and the retailer was using the pre-production pictures.

 

In such a situation you would certainly be able to return the item for a refund on the basis that what was supplied was not that which was ordered.

 

However, if you walk into a shop and purchase them over the counter then you have no comeback (as far as appearance goes) - you have ample opportunity to inspect the goods before purchase and if you do go ahead and buy the item, you are indicating that you are happy with the look / appearance of the product.

 

Not necessarily, if you bought the wagons on the strength of the box artwork and price, you would reasonably expect them not to be inferior railroad models, how many of us unpack and open sealed rolling stock in the shop?, locomotives maybe as they may have been test run. The various Hornby triple packs I have bought based on the above premise have turned out to be satisfactory, so why are Hornby now running a con?. Very fair of Hattons to offer a full refund IMHO.

 

Mike.

[tamperman36]

this is what happens when you farm production out halfway round the world, nobody went out to check the original production run was the correct version of the wagon, they cant produce the hi spec models to replace the railroad spec ones as all there production slots are already taken up.

Hornby really need to get a grip and start listening to there customers as the more they muck up the harder it will be to recover.

[37403]

Again what do you expect them to do? Recall all the models and chuck them in the skip? good luck on convincing the accountants that is a good idea. Equally the finance people are not going to thank you for slashing the price now, particularly when Hornby are still not out of the woods yet financially.

 

Sorry, as much as it might leave a bad taste in the mouth, what retailers / Hornby have done is what any sane business in a similar position would do - try and salvage as much profit as possible from what is a pretty significant (and costly screw up) in the supply chain. Yes the item as delivered might not be as high quality as expected, but they are not dangerous, they are not something completely different (e.g. a box van instead of a hopper) and they presumably will run quite satisfactory on Hornby track.

 

At the end of the day money talks - If hardly anyone buys these then after a few months retailers /  Hornby will be forced to cut the price and take a financial hit, but in the meantime they will gladly take money from people who don't care or for whom the offer to supply the missing hood is good enough.

I expect them to accept responsibility for the error which in my case the trader has done albeit this being a Hornby issue.

 

Your second paragraph is interesting. If you were to put down a deposit on a Ford ST3 based on the salesroom brochure at £30k, would you be okay getting a standard Ford focus which is worth £13k based on the premise that it's alright even though its not as high quality, it's not dangerous, its not something completely different and it runs quite well....I don't think so.

The point is the item as advertised is different to what I purchased on the premise of.

[Ian Hargrave]

Again what do you expect them to do? Recall all the models and chuck them in the skip? good luck on convincing the accountants that is a good idea. Equally the finance people are not going to thank you for slashing the price now, particularly when Hornby are still not out of the woods yet financially.

 

Sorry, as much as it might leave a bad taste in the mouth, what retailers / Hornby have done is what any sane business in a similar position would do - try and salvage as much profit as possible from what is a pretty significant (and costly screw up) in the supply chain. Yes the item as delivered might not be as high quality as expected, but they are not dangerous, they are not something completely different (e.g. a box van instead of a hopper) and they presumably will run quite satisfactory on Hornby track.

 

At the end of the day money talks - If hardly anyone buys these then after a few months retailers /  Hornby will be forced to cut the price and take a financial hit, but in the meantime they will gladly take money from people who don't care or for whom the offer to supply the missing hood is good enough.

 

and that's a healthy dose of realism...."doing things" is probably financially not viable..either for retailers or Hornby ,who will "carry on regardless ".....as indeed they must.You have a

choice to accept it or send it back for a refund,maybe contacting Hornby customer services on the way to air your views.Given the products we cherish are made on the other side of the world and Hornby's occasional qc blips,this should come as no surprise.