Kelly Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Thanks Kelly. A valuable collection of detail photos. I shall be referring to page five and six quite often. All the best, Colin You're welcome Colin. If there are any you'd like higher resolution copies of, drop me a message and i can arrange to email them. I have Natalie's photos (she took some of places I couldn't get to possibly) but I've yet to full sort those. Kelly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Some more work on the Hornby 8ft w.b. bogies and the fitting of P4 wheels to the drive unit. On the 8ft w.b. bogies, the brackets on the inner steps boards have been changed for something a little more like the prototype shape. One bogie has had pickups added, cut in a rather free style manner from phosphor-bronze sheet. For the drive unit, Exactoscale 14 mm dia. disc wheels and Hornby gear wheels were bonded to C&L 1 mm to 2 mm dia. conversion axles. This was achived with Loctite 435 for the axle to gear joint and Loctite 603 to bond the brass sleeve to the axle, and the wheel to axle joints too. The Hornby drive unit's gear train and consequently the gears on the axles are designed to be slightly off-centre, just to make life more interesting... The wheels were held with two back to back gauges until the Loctite reacted with the steel axle. This is not for the faint-hearted, because once this stuff has taken hold, nothing will separate the parts! Once the wheels were set, the matter of installing them in the motor housing was tackled . The design of the drive unit allowed so much side play in the 00 wheelsets, that this could not be allowed for P4 wheels. The tyres would just have rubbed against the cosmetic side frames, which are very close to scale width. So, some Plastikard spacers were made to limit the side play of the gear wheel, which reduced the side play of the wheels to 0.25 mm - just enough for the wheels to still turn, though some plastic material still had to be removed from the inner face of the cosmetic side frames - as it turned out. (One set of spacers is shown in place.) ... and here with the wheels in situ and the pick ups adjusted. The side frames then had to be slotted for clearance for the wheels bosses so that the cosmetic side frames could be clipped into position. It really was that close. The wheels are 0.5 mm wider that the inside measurement of the frames, which themselves suffered from not being quite square to the wheels, something that was apparent even with the factory-fitted 00 wheels sets. (I did check, the wheels were correct, the frames were skewed, causing some heavy bending to be employed to address the problem.) And finally, the drive unit shown here with unaltered cosmetic side frame detail, and temporarily wired. (It runs very well.) There is a lot of chopping to do yet: the gargantuan shoe beams need a severe dose of the knife; the axle box covers are incorrect; the guard irons are not correct for this type of bogie and the NEM coupling socket will be excised fro the front transom. The Roxey trailing pick up bogie kit is next up, though it will need the over-width side frames correcting - they are approx. 2mm too far apart from a quick inspection of the etches. Hmm, out with the piercing saw then. Edited July 12, 2017 by Colin parks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Is that the 2BIL/HAL power bogie you're adapting Colin? I have a pair of each 2BIL/HAL units from Hornby that will need conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Is that the 2BIL/HAL power bogie you're adapting Colin? I have a pair of each 2BIL/HAL units from Hornby that will need conversion. Yes Kelly, it is the very same. (Hornby part number X6953.) Curiously, though the drive unit/motor bogie was packed in a sealed bag, there was evidence to suggest that they had been wired at some stage, although only to one set of pick ups and the motor. I have two units and both look as if wires have been soldered on and then removed - strange! Colin Edited July 18, 2017 by Colin parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Yes Kelly, it is the very same. (Hornby part number X6953.) Curiously, though the drive unit/motor bogie was packed in a sealed bag, there was evidence to suggest that the had been wired at some stage, although only to one set of pick ups and the motor. I have two units and both look as if wires have been soldered on and then removed - strange! Colin Might have been a QC problem in the factory, where the wire/solder joint is too weak and failed so had to be redone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 Might have been a QC problem in the factory, where the wire/solder joint is too weak and failed so had to be redone? Well, with so many of these units in stock, you can only guess that some mishap during production must have led to them becoming available as spares. The units run really well, so it cannot have been a mechanical problem. Whatever the cause, the units remain a bargain and have plenty of power too. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Well, with so many of these units in stock, you can only guess that some mishap during production must have led to them becoming available as spares. The units run really well, so it cannot have been a mechanical problem. Whatever the cause, the units remain a bargain and have plenty of power too. Colin I shall have to remember to get a few for other projects I've got going on. Most of the stock being built (Blacksmith 4SUB aside) is BR Mk1 based using Replica bodies with MJT sides. Though some SR/Bulleid design units to go with the Mk1 units would be good (Hornby 2BIL/2HALs and Ian Kirk 2BIL aside), as in 1959-62 some of them would still knock around to some extent on a branch line (I fancy getting one of the Roxey 3's and augmentation trailers etc at some point). Edited July 13, 2017 by Kelly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I've never understood why Hornby invented a shoebeam of that shape. It's absolutely awful. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 I've never understood why Hornby invented a shoebeam of that shape. It's absolutely awful. Dave Hi Dave, We will probably never know the answer! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I suspect an inadvertant increase in vertical scaling on a CAD that was missed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 I suspect an inadvertant increase in vertical scaling on a CAD that was missed. Hi Bernard, It does not take too long to rectify this mistake of the Hornby design deptartment once the beams are removed from the side frames. The collector shoes are moulded in line with the beams, which is wrong but understandable. It is a little tricky to repostition them, but when put behind the beams, they are exactly spot on for alignment with the third rail. These bogies are, despite their little foibles, the best representation available by far. If only the 2 HAL trailing pick up bogies were available as a spare parts. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) A little more work on the bogies: This example is a Roxey Mouldings trailing pick up bogie etched kit. It has undergone major surgery to bring the side frames in by 1.5 mm. As originally folded up, the wheels almost fell out of the frames. With some careful work witht the soldering iron, the side frames are now re-attched and a scale distance apart. There are castings still to go on, but the main metal work is done. The kit does not provide transoms nor tie bars, so those have been added from brass channel and 0.5 mm nickel-silver respectively. As with the first one of these kits that I built, the transoms are only soldered to one side frame. This gives a whippy quality to the bogie, in the style of David Jenkinson's method for building coach bogies. There are plenty more small details to add from brass shim, such as corner gussets, steps,gguard irons and spring arresters. These will all be fixed with Loctite to avoid the risk of unsoldering the parts already there. Edited July 15, 2017 by Colin parks 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 A little more work on the bogies: This example is a Roxey Mouldings trailing pick up bogie etched kit. It has undergone major surgery to bring the side frames in by 1.5 mm. As originally folded up, the wheels almost fell out of the frames. With some careful work witht the soldering iron, the side frames are now re-attched and a scale distance apart. There are castings still to go on, but the main metal work is done. The kit does not provide transoms nor tie bars, so those have been added from brass channel and 0.5 mm nickel-silver respectively. As with the first one of these kits that I built, the transoms are only soldered to one side frame. This gives a whippy quality to the bogie, in the style of David Jenkinson's method for building coach bogies. There are plenty more small details to add from brass shim, such as corner gussets, steps,gguard irons and spring arresters. These will all be fixed with Loctite to avoid the risk of unsoldering the parts already there. Not tried the Roxey bogies as yet, do they provide any springing/compensation? I have some 8ft6 Brassmasters sprung bogie frames to make up, which I'd intended for Mk1 stock (they do 8ft as well). They include some nice brake rigging representation as part of the etch. Kelly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 Not tried the Roxey bogies as yet, do they provide any springing/compensation? I have some 8ft6 Brassmasters sprung bogie frames to make up, which I'd intended for Mk1 stock (they do 8ft as well). They include some nice brake rigging representation as part of the etch. Kelly Hi Kelly, There is no intentional compensation in the Roxey etched bogie, but due to the design, it does have some flexibility. I deliberately re-soldered the side frames to the centre spacer with just one substantial blob of solder in the middle, which makes the resultant assembly quite springy. (Perhaps I should add a photo of the bogie inverted to highlight the alterations.) I shall be interested to see how you get on with the Brassmasters bogies. At least you will have brake rigging provided on yours! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Hi Kelly, There is no intentional compensation in the Roxey etched bogie, but due to the design, it does have some flexibility. I deliberately re-soldered the side frames to the centre spacer with just one substantial blob of solder in the middle, which makes the resultant assembly quite springy. (Perhaps I should add a photo of the bogie inverted to highlight the alterations.) I shall be interested to see how you get on with the Brassmasters bogies. At least you will have brake rigging provided on yours! All the best, Colin Indeed, it does have the brake rigging, but it is so finely etched the other half of the brake gear fell off when making a (non soldered) start to them! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) View of the underside of the trailing pick up bogie, showing the soldered joint which allows some flexibility in the frames. Some cutting out for the chassis, including floors, solebars and footboards (black strips). One floor has been marked out for bogie pivots and has a brass lug which sits in a 0.5mm hole in the floor. This lug will position the Hornby 8ft bogies at the inner ends. The other floor has been marked out for the Hornby drive unit, which takes up more room than a Black Beetle would, so it will protrude into the driver's cab about 3mm. Next will to cut out will be some 10 thou. overlays for the solebars, complete with rivet detail. Edited July 19, 2017 by Colin parks 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustered Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Hi Colin, Great to see you are back and production in full flow! Best wishes Nige Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hi Colin, Great to see you are back and production in full flow! Best wishes Nige Hi Nige, Thanks for your message. Production is sort of back in 'full flow', though still only one unit at a time! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustered Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hi Colin, I know what you mean, I still haven't finished the sheba but its getting there! Thanks for all your help. Best wishes Nige 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hi Colin, I know what you mean, I still haven't finished the sheba but its getting there! Thanks for all your help. Best wishes NigeIMG_0210.JPG Ah yes, your Sheba Nige! It looks as if your model's bodywork is near completion. A Sheba is on my list of future projects -all those windows though! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hi Colin, I know what you mean, I still haven't finished the sheba but its getting there! Thanks for all your help. Best wishes NigeIMG_0210.JPG But it's the wrong colour!! Jokes aside, that looks seriously good, Nige. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted July 21, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2017 Hi Colin, I know what you mean, I still haven't finished the sheba but its getting there! Thanks for all your help. Best wishes NigeIMG_0210.JPG Can I ask where you got the drawings from, please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Can I ask where you got the drawings from, please. Not sure if they're what Nigel used, but Mike King has a varied selection of SR drawings, including the SUBs and post-war SUB/HAL types. (The file hosted may not be upto date with the right address, not having the recent list i picked up at ExpoEM to hand I can't double check it). Edited July 21, 2017 by Kelly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted July 21, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2017 Not sure if they're what Nigel used, but Mike King has a varied selection of SR drawings, including the SUBs and post-war SUB/HAL types. (The file hosted may not be upto date with the right address, not having the recent list i picked up at ExpoEM to hand I can't double check it). Thanks Kelly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustered Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Hi, I used the plans from Bulleid coaches in 4mm scale by SW Stratton bought back in about 1985! Very useful book indeed. Might start a thread on the Sheba so far if there's any interest? Best wishes Nige Edited July 21, 2017 by Bustered 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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