jim.snowdon Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 My friend lent me a great big book on GWR wagons. I found that van designs prior to about 1935 had spoked wheels (and there's a picture of a V21 with spoked wheels) and after that disc wheels appear to have been the norm. John Although ultimately, you can use either spoked or 3-hole wheels indiscriminately, as whenever they needed replacing for reprofiling or dealing with journal wear/damage, replacement sets were simply fitted on a next available basis - what mattered was the diameter, carrying capacity and journal diameter. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Good evening Nice model. I like the post to support one axle, does it run better? I had thought about adding small coils springs (I saw some on a Heljan OAA recently). I took a picture of one in Three Bridges PAD, probably early 1990's not sure.... Looking closely I'm not sure if there are the remnants of 'XP'... https://www.flickr.com/photos/55938574@N03/16357078492/sizes/o/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted July 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Useful pic! Interestingly (or maybe it's just me) that's got the same square replacement axle boxes as the previous example shown. Better view of the brake cylinder which does look to be hung below the framing as suggested. Is that 'x' an old condemned marking with the circle missing? Edited July 31, 2017 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium SR Chris Posted July 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2017 The 'X' without the circle denotes an internal user vehicle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 Thanks Jim, yes I think I understand that you can use spoked or disc in this case. I found the photographic evidence for spoked. As the kit came with spoked and I would have to rob another kit for the discs, I opted for spoked. In theory the van will run better with a compensated axle. I can't say at this point since I haven't got a layout running. It doesn't seem worse though. I'm slowly building a layout, still at board construction stage. Pictures are always welcome. Funny, I thought red painted pipes denoted through piped. Hal, yes, the cylinder does look low, must be like that to clear the cross brace, similar to what I did. More interesting minutiae, thanks Chris. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 John, Fair enough, but the comment is just as much aimed at others who seem to think that if a wagon was built in 1923 with spoked wheels, then that is what is must have throughout its life. Ditto with regard to axleboxes, particularly into the BR era, and even more so the locomotive builders who have a fixation about disc vs. spoked wheels on tenders. As regards the other points - the vacuum pipes on vehicles with only through pipes are white, and yes, the van will cope with track defects better if one axle is supported in the centre. Vacuum cylinders do hang well down in the frames, but that is simply to give room above the cylinder, not to clear any specific part of the framing as the cylinder sits within a clear bay in the underframe structure. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 Good points Jim. I agree that these threads should try to provide information to the community as to whats what. I think that when you get into the BR era with grouping wagons, there are few hard and fast rules. Still, you don't want to venture too far out of bounds. Got my pipe colours backroads on. I better paint mine red then. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted July 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) John, Fair enough, but the comment is just as much aimed at others who seem to think that if a wagon was built in 1923 with spoked wheels, then that is what is must have throughout its life. Jim Just out of interest, there was a picture posted this weekend on the thread "Diesel Hydraulic Era O Gauge Garden Railway" (also within 7mm modelling) of a sand wagon with one spoked axle and one disc. I've got loads of spare spoked wheels but never enough discs. Have even toyed with trying to fill the spoked ones in! Edited July 31, 2017 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 I lettered the van yesterday: P1010001-002 by John Kendall, on Flickr The transfer sheet from Parkside didn't have any WB markings. I had to make a composite number from individual digits. From the vac cylinder side this time. John 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 My understanding is that to qualify for XP classification, the wheelbase had to be 10' or greater. The V21/33 vans only had 9' wheelbase, so would not have been XP rated, and would have had no need for the wheelbase to be marked. Jim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Ah thanks for that Jim. I had a suspicion that 9' vans weren't marked but didn't know why. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Just to wrap this build up the van has been weathered: P1010001-003 by John Kendall, on Flickr P1010002-002 by John Kendall, on Flickr John Edited August 12, 2017 by brossard 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted August 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 30, 2017 Finally sorting the lettering on mine following the info in this thread. Can I ask where you got the tare from or was it an educated guess? I've not found a photo other than in departmental use. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Finally sorting the lettering on mine following the info in this thread. Can I ask where you got the tare from or was it an educated guess? I've not found a photo other than in departmental use. Thanks! Typical tare weights are given in the table of wagon diagrams in the GWR 'wagon bible' by Atkinson, Tourret, et al. The most recent version is very comprehensive, but expensive; but https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=22472250082&searchurl=tn%3Dgwr%2Bwagons%26sortby%3D17%26an%3Datkins contains the table and may well suffice. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 It was a guess Hal. I chose one that was some 5cwt greater than the one on the Parkside transfer sheet to account for the vacuum brake equipment. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Drat, I have that book (lent to me by the chap I'm building the wagons for). I'll have a look to see what it says about V21 Tare. John Edit: V21 Tare is given as 7-6. I'll leave mine alone. Edited August 30, 2017 by brossard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted August 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 30, 2017 Drat, I have that book (lent to me by the chap I'm building the wagons for). I'll have a look to see what it says about V21 Tare. John Edit: V21 Tare is given as 7-6. I'll leave mine alone. I guessed 7-1 Near enough for jazz! Thanks all for replies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted June 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2020 On 22/07/2017 at 14:34, brossard said: I don't see couplings on your van??? I just got this wagon out and was surprised to find it has no couplings then came across this post when looking up what diagram we concluded it was! I don't think my memory was ever very good but its certainly not now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) You're pretty slow too, it would appear. In another thread I posted this pic of a recently completed V33 unfitted van: Rescue job, originally fitted with coarse wheels and an amazingly horrid coupler. Buffers and couplings were all seized. All fixed now. Note the buffers are not the usual Parkside fare. These are Slater's LMS van buffers which look exactly like the buffers I saw in the pic. John Edited March 19 by brossard 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 On the subject of wheel types, I have the impression the GWR used solid spoke rather than split spoke wheels - which I think is what Parkside used to supply in the kits. Any thoughts on this? I've a small assortment of GWR kits to build for my GE Section-based layout just to add to the goods mix. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 Parkside supply Slater's wheels in their kits. I have built a fair few over the last few years in all flavours. I've never had a kit with split spoke wheels. From discussion here, there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule about spoked or 3 hole disc. Best thing is to find a picture of your wagon. Paul Bartlett's collection ( https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons) is a good resource. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, brossard said: Parkside supply Slater's wheels in their kits. I have built a fair few over the last few years in all flavours. I've never had a kit with split spoke wheels. From discussion here, there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule about spoked or 3 hole disc. Best thing is to find a picture of your wagon. Paul Bartlett's collection ( https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons) is a good resource. John John, I beg to differ but I have at least a couple of dozen Parkside kits supplied with split spoke wheels; these tend to be the older prototypes such as 9' wb and unfitted but that's not a hard and fast rule. The majority of the other kits were supplied with 3-hole disc wheels. It's only either an odd GWR or possibly an odd SR kit that came with solid spoke wheels... Edited July 4, 2020 by Pint of Adnams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 Well, if you are doing pre grouping or early grouping wagons, I expect that you will get split spoke wheels. A lot of PO wagons had split spoke as well. The wagons I build tend to be later in the grouping period or BR so solid spoke and 3 hole disc are the most common. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 2 hours ago, brossard said: Well, if you are doing pre grouping or early grouping wagons, I expect that you will get split spoke wheels. A lot of PO wagons had split spoke as well. The wagons I build tend to be later in the grouping period or BR so solid spoke and 3 hole disc are the most common. John There were plenty of secondhand split spoke wheels running around in the late 1950s / early 1960s. In fact, quite a number of BR new-build non-fitted wagons got fitted with them, due to the post-war shortages. John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 I think wheelsets we’re always regarded as an asset. The various types nearly all used the same tyre. So could be re-tyred. The Southern Railway I think built a specific design to use up a load of non standard wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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