Imaginary Railways

[KeithMacdonald]

For the Bridport, Lyme Regis & Axminster Railway.

At first, I was thinking Seemples!

1) Because we all know there really was Lyme Regis & Axminster Railway.

2) Hadn't I just drawn a route for Bridport to Charmouth?

3) Isn't Charmouth just a short distance from Lyme Regis?

 

Lyme Regis & Axminster Railway is the "easy" bit, because it already existed. But when you look at the route of the line, with hardly a single piece of straight track, it clearly wasn't that simple.

 

 

Then there's that "little bit" between Lyme Regis and Charmouth. 

Yikes!

First thing I realised is that the engineers for the Lyme Regis & Axminster had a challenging job. And that was going north-south along a roughly north-south valley. They had just about wriggled as far as they could around the Uplyme valley, but could progress no further. From this point on, trying to travel east-west to Charmouth, we've hit the bogey of travelling east-west across deepest Wessex. That is, all the major valleys run north-south, and those contours are pretty densely packed. There's no flat ground to make it easy.

 

[The Johnster]

I think if I were given the task of surveying a direct route between Lyme Regis and Charmouth I'd want to build along the cliffs, about twenty feet above spring tide level.  That would need something like a continuous avalanche shelter to protect the track, and the trains, from the frequent rockfalls, and a lot of shoring up below track level, along with more or less continuous work to keep the route in good order.  Alternatively on a viaduct above the water.  It's a not dissimilar situation to the Dawlish stretch, but more open to the prevailing southwesterlies and with more cliff hanging above the railway.  It probably isn't viable; there isn't enough traffic between Lyme Regis and Charmouth to warrant the considerable cost, but it would certainly be a spectacular ride!

 

You might have found some interesting fossils while you were digging it out of the cliffs.

[DLT]

1 hour ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Of course, we all know that line was built in narrow gauge as per @DLT's Charmouth and Bridport Town layouts

 

Nailed it! 

But then it is the only reasonably practical route, as anyone who has passed along the coast road will testify.

[KeithMacdonald]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I think if I were given the task of surveying a direct route between Lyme Regis and Charmouth I'd want to build along the cliffs, about twenty feet above spring tide level.  That would need something like a continuous avalanche shelter to protect the track, and the trains, from the frequent rockfalls, and a lot of shoring up below track level, along with more or less continuous work to keep the route in good order. 

 

I like the idea.

 

That part of the "Jurassic Coast" is geologist's heaven.

 

Quote

Lyme Regis lies at the point where the Triassic rocks disappear below the sea and the oldest Jurassic rocks, thick clays and thin limestone of the 'Lias', form the cliffs. These rocks were deposited in a moderately deep tropical sea that was packed with marine life and as a result fossils are very common. Some, such as pencil shaped belemnites and coiled ammonites, are easy to find but others, like ichthyosaurs (marine reptiles) and fish are far rarer. The rocks also contain evidence of life on the land in the form of fossil wood, insects and even dinosaurs that were washed into the sea some 200 million years ago.

 

But ...

 

Quote

Giant landslides are active, especially during the wet winter months and cause huge mudflows to spill onto the beaches. The Black Ven Landslide, between Lyme Regis and Charmouth beaches is the site of the largest coastal mudflow in Europe that happened in the winter of 1958/9. The sea washes away the mud to leave countless fossils scattered in the sand.

 

No good for any transport route. But great for picking up fossils at low tide.

 

http://www.lymeregis.com/history/geolog_fossil.htm

[john new]

Any railway along the cliffs would be in the sea fairly quickly. Even the inland A35 main road is unstable, works on going at the moment to stabilise the steep section inland of Golden Cap at Charminster Chideock and a year or two back another stretch a bit further west needed a lot of stabilising work.

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by john new
Edited the village name, my bad memory.

[DLT]

Look at Google Maps or Old maps you can see the where the coast road between Charmouth and Lyme has disappeared and been moved inland at least twice.

[DLT]

11 hours ago, DLT said:

Nailed it! 

But then it is the only reasonably practical route, as anyone who has passed along the coast road will testify.

Or walked the coast path, and climbed up to Golden Cap at over 600 feet.

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, DLT said:

Look at Google Maps or Old maps you can see the where the coast road between Charmouth and Lyme has disappeared and been moved inland at least twice.

 

It looks like the whole lot could slide into the sea any time after heavy rainfall.

 

[john new]

Several recent serious rock falls a bit further east between West Bay and West Bexington. 

[KeithMacdonald]

Thanks to @Hando

Quote

Here are the original plans: https://www.freshford.com/railway_charmouth.htm

 

i.e. The Bridport, Lyme Regis and Axminster Railway Company proposals to link Charmouth with its neighbours.

 

 

It had four parts

Railway No.1 - Bridport to Charmouth

Railway No.2 - Charmouth to a junction roughly 1/2 way to Axminster

Railway No.3 - that junction to Lyme Regis

Railway No.4 - that junction to Axminster

 

I suspect that "Railway No.4" was last on the list for a good reason - they would probably have to do some serious tunnelling.

 

Railway No.1 - Bridport to Charmouth - that's the relatively easy part. Bottom right is the incoming line from Maiden Newton. I've assumed at this stage the line would terminate nearest to Charmouth.

 

 

Railway No.2 - Charmouth to a junction roughly 1/2 way to Axminster

Railway No.3 - that junction to Lyme Regis

 

 

Can anyone make out what the words in red say next to "Ry No.3" ?

Looks like the junction would be close to Penn Inn?

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Slight change of plan, chaps!

 

I realised it might be easier to work backwards from Axminster, following the valley, to where they would have had the shortest tunnel. That part is in red. About 800 yards long?

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by KeithMacdonald

[KeithMacdonald]

It's not very clear to see on the OS map image, but the southern end of the tunnel is at Monckton Wyld. With that as a reference point, the trackbed route to Charmouth is easier to decipher. i've left a stub of the "Railway No.1" terminus, assuming something like a station siding.

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

The 1888 OS 25" map of Lyme Regis shows it was a lot smaller than now. So the proposed terminus for Lyme Regis could have been closer to the town centre. Perhaps beside the River Lim in the area called Jericho?

 

 

Using the 1930's 25:000 scale version the route out of Lyme Regis might have looked like this.

 

 

So far, so good. But now the tricky part. How on earth (or where) would they have connected to the "Railway No.2" from Charmouth? The proposal shows a three-way junction. Did they really mean to make three tunnels?

 

 

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Good news chaps!

 

The Board of Directors of the Bridport, Lyme Regis and Axminster Railway Company Limited has just announced the outcome of the Extraordinary General Meeting (1890). The Directors warmly received the report of the esteemed Unbelievable Market Research Company, which assured them of no known geological issues, a guarantee of fast construction at low cost, and unlimited opportunities for growth with the new holiday destinations of West Bay and Charmouth. We are told on great authority that the newly invented "automobiles" of Messrs Karl Friedrich Benz and Gottlieb Daimler are of no concern. Firstly, they are deemed a trivial novelty with no discernable future. Secondly, no self-respecting English Gentleman (or Lady) would wish to be seen driving anything that was not a British invention.

 

The routes of the Railways No 3 and 4 have been decided and published. Two tunnels will be built, either side of a Monkton Wyld Junction Station. The north-westerly tunnel towards Axminster will be aproximately 800 yards in length, the south-easterly tunnel will be aproximately 1000 yards in length.

 

On which basis, the Board of Directors unaminously voted to invest their entire life savings, mortgage their properties as guarantees, and commit the BLR&AM to acquire the very latest British Leyland tunnel boring machine and begin construction immediately.  As the majority of the route is in the County of Dorsetshire, the Directors have elected to call the tunnel boring machine "Doris".

 

[Northmoor]

On 20/08/2023 at 17:56, KeithMacdonald said:

The 1888 OS 25" map of Lyme Regis shows it was a lot smaller than now. So the proposed terminus for Lyme Regis could have been closer to the town centre. Perhaps beside the River Lim in the area called Jericho?

How linking the two termini with a funicular railway?  

[KeithMacdonald]

Report in the Lyme Regis Gazette and Herald (1st April, 1899) - by our staff reporter Ronald Waffle.

 

Grand Opening of The Bridport, Lyme Regis and Axminster Railway (BLR&A)

 

Today I was privileged to witness a great day in the rich history of our great town of Lyme Regis. A veritable throng of citizens gathered for the grand opening of our newest railway. The newly completed station buildings, and the first train to arrive, were all gaily decorated with ribbons and festooned with the flags of our great nations and Empire Territories. At the entrance to the station platform, the ribbon was elegantly cut by Lady Bickersydke, the most gracious wife of Lord Bickersydke, the chairman of the BLR&A. The gathered dignitaries then enjoyed a buffet lunch of Mulligatawny Soup, the main course of Jellied Eels, Chips and Gravy, followed by Spotted Dick and Custard, with copious volumes of local cider, During which, Lord Bickersydke made a lengthy speech. During which he announced the plans for many exciting new tourist attractions, including the Northmoor Funicular Railway which will provide a high-speed link between the two railway stations.

 

Press release of the new railway line (in green), the Northmoor Funicular Railway (in red), linking to the old station and line (in yellow)

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Report in the Lyme Regis Gazette and Herald (30th February, 1901) - by our staff reporter John Caramel

 

Great Success Of The Northmoor Funicular Railway

 

The Northmoor Funicular Railway, recently opened by Mr Northmoor himself, has indeed proved to be as popular as Mr Northmoor promised, if not more so. Our resident artist has painstakingly created a highly authentic colourised engraving of the funicular in action.

 

 

Some nervous citizens had expressed their concerns about the safety provisions provided on the funicular. Namely, the very steepness of the descent, and the termination of the descent in case of any unforeseen mechanical malfunction. I was reassured all these issues have been considered; the brakes have been carefully designed to utilise the very latest technology with asbestos linings.

 

Local entrepeneurs have been quick to respond to potential demand in case of over-excited persons of a nervous disposition, alarmed at the rate of descent, who may have an unfortunate accident of nature. The local haberdashery will be offering a most cost-effective and discrete service, exchanging stained undergarments for new ones, at the very reasonable price of tuppance ha’penny. For impecunious members of the public, the local wash-house will offer a “scrub it yourself” facility.

 

The route of the funicular railway line has also been carefully chosen.

 

 

In the unlikely event of a brakes failure, the resident funicular railway engineer assured me that the funicular carriage would come gracefully and safely to a stop on the upward slope from Jericho up to the local cemetery.

 

I had the temerity to enquire further: “What would happen if it was a high-speed brakes failure?”

 

The resident funicular railway engineer grimly assured me that there would be such an almighty noise that the walls of Jericho would come tumbling down, and the occupants of the funicular carriage would reach a high-speed terminal end in the cemetery itself.

 

[Hando]

@KeithMacdonald I also forgot to send you this: https://www.lymeregismuseum.co.uk/lrm/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/12_the_lyme_railway.pdf

It seems the greatest impediment to Lyme Regis gaining a railway connection for so long was down to a lack of available finance and the constant intrusion of the bitter rivalry between the GWR and LSWR. The cost of construction that was required on even the more viable routes were far too expensive for the schemes to cover themselves, and thus an overreliance on support and investment from the mostly-disinterested main line companies was inevitable. It comes as no surprise really that the Lyme Regis branch line that was built was a Light Railway.

 

 

 

I've also recently been planning a "what-if" layout based in the Lyme Regis area, though rather than being one of the planned heavy-rail lines, I have been developing an 1860s industrial tramway (inspired by the original standard gauge Swanage Tramway, the Aberford Railway, the Brill Tramway, the Burneside Tramway and the Wenfordbridge Branch), running along the seafront from the Cobb Tramway, and then through the narrow streets from Cobb Gate before wiggling up along the Lim Valley to Uplyme, where the 'main line' would terminate in a yard at Hacker's Mead (the pocket of land next to the Talbot Arms pub), from which some branches would serve the inland limestone quarries at Yawl, Combehays and Venlake. I'm also considering a "Middlemill Colliery" micro layout as well, based on the daft but equally very real exploration for coal there at the turn of the 19th century!

[KeithMacdonald]

I've been asked

Are Ronald Waffle and John Caramel real names?

 

Well, I have to confess I borrowed the names from Bob Mortimer, and one of his legendary appearances on "Would I Lie To You".

They featured in his tale, apparently true(!), of when he burnt down the family home in Middlesbrough, by (mis)using Standard Fireworks.

 

Go to YouTube and search for "bob mortimer fireworks".

[KeithMacdonald]

14 hours ago, Hando said:

I'm also considering a "Middlemill Colliery" micro layout as well, based on the daft but equally very real exploration for coal there at the turn of the 19th century!

 

Daft perhaps, but not completely removed from reality. Coal was mined in Bideford, and lignite (brown coal) was quarried near Bovey Tracey. Of course, if they had only been 40 miles to the east, they might have struck oil instead, at the Arne oilfield near Wareham.

[The Johnster]

29 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Daft perhaps, but not completely removed from reality. Coal was mined in Bideford, and lignite (brown coal) was quarried near Bovey Tracey. Of course, if they had only been 40 miles to the east, they might have struck oil instead, at the Arne oilfield near Wareham.

 

If you look at the geological 'series', there must be coal in the Carboniferous coal measures buried deep beneath the Jurassic rocks famously at the surface in that area, and beneath the Triassic and Permian rocks that are in turn beneath them.  I doubt that drilling equipment was up to the job of finding it at the turn of the 19th century, though, and it would be far too deep to be economically mined even if it was there in reasonably thick seams.  The technology did not exist to pump water from that sort of depth, nor to ventilate any attempted mine; we are talking about several miles down.

[john new]

7 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Daft perhaps, but not completely removed from reality. Coal was mined in Bideford, and lignite (brown coal) was quarried near Bovey Tracey. Of course, if they had only been 40 miles to the east, they might have struck oil instead, at the Arne oilfield near Wareham.

Long time since I read about it and hoping memory not incorrect. Attempts at (or proposals for) shale oil mining were made near Portesham so another plausibility option.

[KeithMacdonald]

15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

If you look at the geological 'series', there must be coal in the Carboniferous coal measures buried deep beneath the Jurassic rocks famously at the surface in that area, and beneath the Triassic and Permian rocks that are in turn beneath them. 

 

Can anyone advise which maps to look at? I've tried a few searches, but only seem to find surface geology.

[KeithMacdonald]

8 hours ago, john new said:

Attempts at (or proposals for) shale oil mining were made near Portesham so another plausibility option.

 

Portesham looks like it's right on the edge of that red-hatched area from Abbotsbury to Osmington.

If only I could find the legend to explain what the colours mean, it might actually be useful! 😀

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=11.3&lat=50.67540&lon=-2.71426&layers=10geol&b=1&marker=50.6702,-2.5639

[john new]

12 hours ago, john new said:

Long time since I read about it and hoping memory not incorrect. Attempts at (or proposals for) shale oil mining were made near Portesham so another plausibility option.

Update - the shale oil discovery and experiment was  in 1883. A Google search brought up this webpage.  https://scottishshale.co.uk/places/beyond-scotland/dorset/portesham-shale-mines/  I suspect I had originally read it in the book on the Abbotsbury Branch, which I have a copy of but typically can’t currently find!

Edited August 24, 2023 by john new