Which DCC system should i use?

[charliepetty]

Honestly don't waste your money on Hornby, Bachmann is OK as a mid range system, suggest anything German!!   Roco Multimaus is cheap and compatible with Lenz.  ESU is very good but Expensive.

 

You won't go far wrong with anything German!

[Guest pboeast]

Go Gaugemaster, definitely.

[Guest pboeast]

Considering the practicalities of going to a model shop and getting a controller, I would say Gaugemaster. The Prodigy Express is normally enough and perfect for DCC beginners. The unit costs about £150, which is incredible value for money, when compared to a £100 Hornby starter controller, which doesn't allow for more than 3-5 Locos. The Gaugemaster one can have 25 on the track, with up to (personally tested) can operate 5 or 6 at the same time. It can handle 4-digit codes instead of the Hornby 2-digit ones and is an ideal entry to DCC.

[Torper]

The obvious alternative to the Prodigy Express is the NCE Powercab.  It's got a similar power output to the Prodigy Express, handles 4-digit codes, and, unlike the Prodigy Express, can control accessories.  It's a similar price.  Other than the ability to control accessories, the other major difference between the two is that the Prodigy Express has a knob that you turn to control it while the NCE unit has a scrolling wheel and buttons, either of which provide speed control.  For a handheld unit I found that much easier to use, but I know that other people prefer the control knob.  You really should try both to get the feel of them.

 

DT

[BoD]

Whilst the figures and capabilities are important and you need a system that will do everything you might want it to, don't get too bogged down with them. The ergonomics of the system are important too. How does it feel to you to operate? I know practise makes perfect but if, for example, you prefer a rotary knob the Lenz100 is not for you. Consider the 'feel' of the system when you are trying different ones.

 

Edit: typed whilst Torper was posting. Interesting that we both use the word 'feel' for the system.

Edited July 27, 2017 by BoD

[Pete the Elaner]

The obvious alternative to the Prodigy Express is the NCE Powercab.  It's got a similar power output to the Prodigy Express, handles 4-digit codes, and, unlike the Prodigy Express, can control accessories.  It's a similar price.  Other than the ability to control accessories, the other major difference between the two is that the Prodigy Express has a knob that you turn to control it while the NCE unit has a scrolling wheel and buttons, either of which provide speed control.  For a handheld unit I found that much easier to use, but I know that other people prefer the control knob.  You really should try both to get the feel of them.

 

DT

PowerCab is very modular too. You can start off with the "basic" system then upgrade it when you need & can afford to. If you end up with the same spec system as the PowerPro, you will not have paid significantly more to get it than buying the full system in the first place.

 

As has been said before though, a trip to Digitrains in Lincoln will be very worthwhile for you.

[melmerby]

Budget decoders have increased in price from the £8 each I paid for them several years ago to about £14 each now. For a little more, you can get a much better decoder (I have found Zimo M600 at £18 to be good value).

The only Zimo decoders I only have experience of is the MX618 which IMHO is inferior to the Lenz Standard + at the same price because it's motor control is not as linear.

As the RRP of the Hornby R8249 is now approaching £20 (obviously less on discount) I see no point at all in buying those. Hornby could do with an up to date replacement at that price point.

Of the about a dozen different makes/types I have tried Lenz has the most linear motor control throughout it's range of decoders.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[shibushe]

Just a quick mention regarding Decoders. Zimo. ( Which I am a fan ) Searching for a suitable decoder I ended up on the Youchoose web site. Having been unable to get what I wanted elsewhere.

Bough two Zimo MX600Rs. So what did I hear, It was the price actually. £ 19.99 for a Zimo.

Plus the service from Youchoose could not have been better. Usual Disclaimer.

[ianLMS]

Honestly don't waste your money on Hornby, Bachmann is OK as a mid range system, suggest anything German!!   Roco Multimaus is cheap and compatible with Lenz.  ESU is very good but Expensive.

 

You won't go far wrong with anything German!

I have a Roco z21 (white) starter set. Came with Multimaus handset (very easy to use) and Wi-Fi router for £145.00 brand new - I use the Multimaus handset and my Andriod Tablet to operate both loco's and points. Will also work from a PC with different free software. I am soooo pleased with the system!!! Take a look at "Simons Shed" on You-tube, or the info on the Roco website. I purchased mine from Ipswich model rail centre www.scograil.co.uk. They also sell the Bachmann and other DCC controllers.

 

NOTE: There are two versions of the Roco control system.

 

The Z21 (note capital Z) (Black) at Scograil is £280 (http://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-10820--z21-digital-control-system-2365-p.asp). The black version is more advanced and has a few more functions (I wouldn't use anyway).

 

The z21 (note lower case z) (white) is £109.95 with Multimaus Handset (http://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-multimaus-with-z21-start-10729-p.asp). £34.95 will get you the Wi-Fi router and activation code for use with a mobile phone or tablet.

 

Hope this helps!

Ian

Edited July 27, 2017 by ianLMS

[melmerby]

I have a Roco z21 (white) starter set. Came with Multimaus handset (very easy to use) and Wi-Fi router for £145.00 brand new - I use the Multimaus handset and my Andriod Tablet to operate both loco's and points. Will also work from a PC with different free software. I am soooo pleased with the system!!! Take a look at "Simons Shed" on You-tube, or the info on the Roco website. I purchased mine from Ipswich model rail centre www.scograil.co.uk. They also sell the Bachmann and other DCC controllers.

 

NOTE: There are two versions of the Roco control system.

 

The Z21 (note capital Z) (Black) at Scograil is £280 (http://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-10820--z21-digital-control-system-2365-p.asp). The black version is more advanced and has a few more functions (I wouldn't use anyway).

 

The z21 (note lower case z) (white) is £109.95 with Multimaus Handset (http://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-multimaus-with-z21-start-10729-p.asp). £34.95 will get you the Wi-Fi router and activation code for use with a mobile phone or tablet.

 

Hope this helps!

Ian

I assume the z21s are broken from starter sets which include trains as they don't seem to figure in the Roco/Fleischmann catalogue on their own (or didn't last time I looked!)

 

Keith

[rockershovel]

This was all done to death, a while ago.

 

There was a lot of advice from people making quite complex technical arguments which they undoubtedly understood but conveyed absolutely nothing of value to me. I had the same experience at the club, where a small, dedicated group have constructed a MERG system which they regard highly, and nobody else can understand at all.

 

I spent 15 mins on the Digitrains stand at the Peterborough Show and learnt quite a lot.

 

Eventually I bought a Gaugemaster on Digitrains' advice. Someone else in the club bought a NCE Powercab. One of the MERG team were enticed over, long enough to rig a pair of terminals to the test track, since the plugs and sockets aren't interchangeable. Now various members with DCC stock, or DCC fitted stock bring them in; most use either controller, with no particular preference evident.

 

The only conclusion I can draw, is that for inexperienced users either are the front-runners for usability and value, by a considerable margin, and the rest are best left to those who understand the subject sufficiently.

Edited July 27, 2017 by rockershovel

[chriswright03]

As many others have suggested Digitrains are very helpful and they have quite a few you can play with.  They are also within easy walking distance of the station in Lincoln so you could combine your research with a day out on the line as well.

[Izzy]

Could I add that I believe that the Prodigy express handset speed control is either by Rotary knob or buttons, as per the Prodigy advance wired/wireless versions, any of which can be used with the PE command station. You can swap between which method you prefer as often as you like, just by using the particular control.

 

Perhaps of equal advantage is that any system that uses buttons for control, (and in conjuction the rotary knobs are encoder type rather than plain potentiometer), that 'picking up' the speed control of a loco - when controlling more than one at a time and swapping between them - is easier than with simple rotary knob speed control types because they remember the loco speed setting.

 

Izzy

[rockershovel]

I've also been told that the Gaugemaster has more power, and is a better choice for layouts with very large stables of locos. This probably isn't relevant for a personal layout, more so for a club layout which might have several trains circulating or in operation.

 

I can't comment on this from experience. One thing I would say, is that if you are running more than one loco from a single handset (I have a move I'm working on, bringing a banking loco up to the train and then easing off and falling back) I find the Gaugemaster quicker at changing between locos. YMMV of course.

[Crosland]

I've also been told that the Gaugemaster has more power, and is a better choice for layouts with very large stables of locos. This probably isn't relevant for a personal layout, more so for a club layout which might have several trains circulating or in operation.

 

It's better to add boosters and divide the layout into power districts if you need more power than one large booster built into a command station can supply.

[jjb1970]

I think it comes down to how you feel with the user interface as all of the systems seem to work. I just use basic entry level chips and have found them to work perfectly well and reliably.

[Torper]

I've also been told that the Gaugemaster has more power, and is a better choice for layouts with very large stables of locos. This probably isn't relevant for a personal layout, more so for a club layout which might have several trains circulating or in operation.

 

 

I think that's the Gaugemaster Advance you're referring to, not the Prodigy Express.  As I Understand it, the Prodigy Express is a 1.6 amp unit.  The NCE Powercab's current is set by the PSU (for all I know that might apply to the Prodigy Express as well?) and so the Powercab's current rating will be the same as the PSU's current rating.  According to the manual the Powercab requires a voltage regulated 10-15 VDC supply of 3 amps or less. The 12v PSU that NCE supplies puts out 1.35 amps, but a 15v backup PSU I bought from Coastal DCC puts out 2 amps and the Powercab seems to work fine with it.  I understand that while the manual says that the Powercab will take up to 3amps, that isn't recommended for continous running and at 3amps it'll shut down.

 

DT

[traction]

As you can see Andrew ask that question and you will get everybody recommending the system they tend to use!

 

I have lots of DCC control systems and all have good and bad points.

I do have sound locos and the ZTC611 and the Signa-Track ACE are the only two that have easy function control that I have actually used and played with(no doubt there are others but I've not used them) all of my other controllers are numerous button presses, some are easier than others even with the button presses though.

All of the comments about the Hornby controllers is a bit OTT in my opinion.

I have 3 Selects and the Hornby Elite and they have taken a lot of hammer at exhibitions with the children using them.

The Elite could be a really good controller it is a fully functional controller has everything needed, OK the menu system is a little tedious but you soon get used to it, the main issue is the function operation......... it makes you want to smash it with a hammer its that long winded and cumbersome so for sound locos I would look at something else. Whats odd is the Select, it has much better function control.

 

Hence why I never recommend controllers, as what we all use is completely different to what you might like, no one person is the same.

You really need to take your time and have a play with as many as possible to find out what works for YOU and how you want to run your layout.

 

Don't worry too much about how many locos you're going to be running and power available initially as you can add boosters as and when required, if this proves to be a problem.

 

Just have fun!!!

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited July 29, 2017 by traction

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Stay focussed on trying the control interfaces, to find the one you really like because it all falls under your hand naturally. In my opinion you want whichever one you can use with only brief glances at it, so that you watch the trains almost all the time. (The one upgrade I would like is a voice command loco number call up, then I wouldn't have to look at the handset display at all.

...on a side note when did wagons and coaches get so expensive 46 for a single modern image wagon...

Several factors playing there to produce this situation, you will find the discussions under Product>manufacturer headings.

[GoingUnderground]

The right DCC system for you? The one you enjoy using the most, provided it meets both your current, and likely future needs.

 

How do you know which one you'll enjoy most? Try as many as you can before you buy, even if that means spending time & money visiting different retailers and the bigger shows.

 

How do you know if it will meet your future needs? Look at the specs, and the accessories available for that controller now. Then think about the probable eventual size of your layout, how many locos you're likely to want to chip, how many you want running at once, and will you want computer control eventually.

 

I have an ESU ECoS. It's the right controller for me, but it won't suit everyone, and it is expensive, as are the main accessories, namely the Mobile Control II, and the ECoSDetector occupancy detection modules.

Edited July 30, 2017 by GoingUnderground

[Psiborg]

As many others have suggested Digitrains are very helpful and they have quite a few you can play with.  They are also within easy walking distance of the station in Lincoln so you could combine your research with a day out on the line as well.

 

Exactly what I was going to say, I went to Digitrains and after 'playing' with the various systems on show, I bought the the one I liked the feel of the most and I have never regretted it.  I won't say which I got or which you should get.  You need to buy what suits you at the end of the day!

 

 

Simon

[rockershovel]

I think that's the Gaugemaster Advance you're referring to, not the Prodigy Express. As I Understand it, the Prodigy Express is a 1.6 amp unit. The NCE Powercab's current is set by the PSU (for all I know that might apply to the Prodigy Express as well?) and so the Powercab's current rating will be the same as the PSU's current rating. According to the manual the Powercab requires a voltage regulated 10-15 VDC supply of 3 amps or less. The 12v PSU that NCE supplies puts out 1.35 amps, but a 15v backup PSU I bought from Coastal DCC puts out 2 amps and the Powercab seems to work fine with it. I understand that while the manual says that the Powercab will take up to 3amps, that isn't recommended for continous running and at 3amps it'll shut down.

 

DT

That's correct, as far as I understand it. The particular context is that I described to Digitrains, that the unit would be used in connection with a club test track which has approx 60' run and no subdivisions, just a single supply point and soldered wires connecting the various baseboard construction joints (so #40 also applies).

 

The unit does indeed have its own power supply, and will comfortably run two or three locos on that circuit, whilst the Powercab (connected to a power supply originally installed to run a single control dial) will not run two for long without tripping out.

 

I was briefly involved with a modular layout group, who had opted for Powercab, with multiple sockets distributed on no consistent plan, depending on how the layout was set up on that occasion. This is a very large layout when fully erected, up to 100' run, with numerous locos running and/or "in sound" at any given moment, and Powercabs seem to work for them.

Edited July 31, 2017 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

Stay focussed on trying the control interfaces, to find the one you really like because it all falls under your hand naturally. In my opinion you want whichever one you can use with only brief glances at it, so that you watch the trains almost all the time. (The one upgrade I would like is a voice command loco number call up, then I wouldn't have to look at the handset display at all.

 

Several factors playing there to produce this situation, you will find the discussions under Product>manufacturer headings.

I was originally tempted by the Powercab, because it appears to be based on a commercial control chassis which I've frequently seen used for various applications at work. It looks very much like the one Leica use, for one thing... that chassis works very well for that sort of application, with frequent menu-driven choices and no particular requirement for speed.

 

For running two locos and switching quickly between them, with minimum looking at the controller and maximum visibility, Digitrains recommended the Gaugemaster and I understand why they made that recommendation, having tried it.

[Barry O]

Dt402 from Digitraxx gives you two controllers on the same hand set.

 

Before you buy or try anything write down

 

1 your current layout plan

2 any expansions planned

3 what do you want from a DCC system

Ie controller, ease of setting up, ease of use, short circuit protection, point selection

4 do you want to link to a computer later on? For route selection for example

5 will you want to link into train detection systems (for hidden storage sidings for example)

 

Don't be swayed by the sellers. One or two push NCE over other systems they sell. (Higher mark ups??)

 

Go and try as many as you can with a loco with a decent DCC chip in it.

 

Enjoy the outcome.

 

Baz

[Hroth]

Considering the practicalities of going to a model shop and getting a controller, I would say Gaugemaster. The Prodigy Express is normally enough and perfect for DCC beginners. The unit costs about £150, which is incredible value for money, when compared to a £100 Hornby starter controller, which doesn't allow for more than 3-5 Locos. The Gaugemaster one can have 25 on the track, with up to (personally tested) can operate 5 or 6 at the same time. It can handle 4-digit codes instead of the Hornby 2-digit ones and is an ideal entry to DCC.

I've been looking through this thread as I've been wondering about moving from my Sprog3+old laptop+JMRI+wireless router+misc smartphones/tablets+engine driver as it does involve a lot of wires and setup, which is a great deterrent if all you want to do is have a quick running session!  Thing is, apart from paying for the Sprog3, the rest of the hardware is life expired for its original use, so is essentially free, as is the software. 

 

The only other DCC controllers I have are a Hornby Select and a Bachmann E-z Controller.  I find the Select flakey and the E-z Controller very limited, so I'm looking about for an "inexpensive" switch on and go controller with facilities more like my current setup.  I like the look of the Prodigy Express, but remote control is an optional expense and its nice to be able to sit at the front of the layout with a tablet running Engine Driver and just watch the trains go by.

 

(Currently Rails of Sheffield are offering the Prodigy Express package for a gnats whisker under £124 inc delivery.)