When TT3 was the next Big Thing

[Pacific231G]

Peter Heath's Llanfair Valley suddenly appeared again in RM April 1984 (with two taster pics in November 83), which was expanded out of all recognition from its humble origins.

It included a fully blown dock and ship, a ruined castle and some ingenious conversions of Bilteezi card buildings.

The stock included Triang based kitbashes, two conversions of Gem 5.5mm locos and a wide variety of stock.

Thanks David.

I've not seen that edition but always wondered if he'd taken the layout further; it's good to know that he did and I'll look for that article .

 

Peter Heath also came up with the "Piano Line" (Holiday project RM July 1965) idea which is a very neat way of getting a complete working terminus to fiddle yard layout into a small space by having the main line joining within the run round loop rather than at its end. .

 

 

The original was quite basic with a single goods siding and was worked by a Tri-ang OO "Nellie" 0-4-0, two four wheel coaches (made from a Tri-ang suburban bogie coach) and one goods wagon. With an extra siding it has suprisingly good operational potential.

 

 

I assumed the basic concept to be total modeller's licence until I discovered at least three termini on French metre gauge lines laid out in exactly this way to get into awkward locations. It would also lend itself rather well to a harbour branch

[PatB]

While we're on the subject of early 00n3 layouts, who remembers the Clun Valley Tramway? I spent hours as a kid gazing at the RM Railway of the Month article from c1970. There was just something about it.

[detheridge]

While we're on the subject of early 00n3 layouts, who remembers the Clun Valley Tramway? I spent hours as a kid gazing at the RM Railway of the Month article from c1970. There was just something about it.

 

You'll find a whole discussion about it here: http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/16776-anyone-remember-the-oon3-clun-valley-tramway-in-rm/?hl=%2B00n3+%2Bclun+%2Bvalley+%2Btramway

(you have to be signed up to the forum first).

 

Here's a pic from the discussion to whet your appetite. Once again, all based on what was available at the time, and using Triang based running gear for both stock and locos.

 

David.

Edited September 2, 2017 by detheridge

[detheridge]

While we're about it, here's the discussion on the subject of freelance 00n3 layouts, and the whole Pug body/Jinty chassis approach:

http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/800-is-freelance-oon3-extinct/?hl=%2000n3%20%20clun%20%20valley%20%20tramway

 

Plus an example of early 00n3 loco practice: Arthur is a Triang clockwork loco body on a Jinty chassis. When I saw it at an 009 AGM in Brum some 10 or more years ago it ran superbly as it was weighed heavily with lead sheet.

Like an idiot I turned down the opportunity to buy it....

 

David.

Edited September 2, 2017 by detheridge

[BernardTPM]

While we're on the subject of early 00n3 layouts, who remembers the Clun Valley Tramway? I spent hours as a kid gazing at the RM Railway of the Month article from c1970. There was just something about it.

February 1969. The layout also had a 9mm gauge line too and there was an article on building freelance 3mm 3 foot gauge models on 9mm track, TT-9.

[PatB]

February 1969. The layout also had a 9mm gauge line too and there was an article on building freelance 3mm 3 foot gauge models on 9mm track, TT-9.

 

I remember that article, although I didn't remember whether it was in the same issue. I remember one of the locos being based on an Airfix Pug boiler and saddle tank mounted on a Minitrix 0-6-0 chassis. Whilst not elegant, the resulting loco was a fairly plausible and very impressive looking heavy industrial shunter.

[Golden Fleece 30]

A few interesting bits I have acquired. Some of the chassis's have TT Romfords, others 00 Romfords. The crank throw shows which is which. All solid construction with 1/16" brass sides. The builder liked fine gears so all are slow running as such. The 0-4-2 has its outer wheels set for a 14xx but the rear drivers are too far apart. I have no idea what I will do with them but there are also some very nice Pug wheels + other wheels and bodies not in the photo. The 4-4-0 is to big for the 2P so maybe for the LNWR body I have, the XT60 is far too large for the 2P. Some nice signals to add to the collection ready for the layout (should have a 25 yard box of track coming today). There is one very large motor (if for TT) I have not seen the likes of before in the centre of the photo, this has a universal joint fitted to its shaft. One of the bodies is a good candidate for a black 08.  The Kitmaster bogies are fitted with metal wheels which I may remove to use in other items like the BEC bogie parcels vans.

 

Garry

[5050]

The double magnet motor in the middle could be one of these -

 

 

Not sure abouit the other motor with the universal joint.  I thought it could be a Formo or Leisure Hours but I don't think it is after looking at these adverts.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by 5050

[5050]

I was looking through some 1950 and 1951 MRN's last night in our club library and came across an advert for a 'Table Top TT Railway Set' complete with loco, coaches, track etc., all to fit on a 4' x 3' table, in a '51 edition.  A couple of months later another advert was for Rokal trains in TT - which stay on the track even at full speed.  Being of a 'foreign'ish' outline (the illustration is rather vague of a semi-streamlined 0-4-0 type loco) then it probably didn't catch the imagination of the 'serious' modeller of those days.

 

I'll get the volumes next week and do some more scanning.

 

Here we go, September 1951.  Looks good, dunnit!  Anyone ever seen one?

 

 

BTW, can't believe this has got to 11 pages!  I suppose it shows that TT is still quite popular!

Edited September 5, 2017 by 5050

[Golden Fleece 30]

The double magnet motor in the middle could be one of these -

 

Zenith Double-o-Four Motor MRN Jan 50.jpg

 

Not sure abouit the other motor with the universal joint.  I thought it could be a Formo or Leisure Hours but I don't think it is after looking at these adverts.

 

Wills Formo Motor Nov 53 MRN.jpg

 

Leisure Hours Motor Oct 54.jpg

Thanks,  The centre motor in question looks to be the Zenith 7 pole one. 

 

The Wills one in the advert looks unusual with the commutator at the magnet end.

 

One of mine, to the left of the centre one, is a KTM with a coil spring between the brushes.  The other with a U/V joint is another 7 pole armature one with a very narrow brush but because of one brush only unable to test as yet.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here we go, September 1951.  Looks good, dunnit!  Anyone ever seen one?

 

Darby Rokal TT MRN Sept 51.jpg

 

BTW, can't believe this has got to 11 pages!  I suppose it shows that TT is still quite popular!

This was all before I was born.  I have heard that Rokal has very large flanges (way above Tri-ang) which is why they stayed on.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Here we go, September 1951.  Looks good, dunnit!  Anyone ever seen one?

 

Darby Rokal TT MRN Sept 51.jpg

 

BTW, can't believe this has got to 11 pages!  I suppose it shows that TT is still quite popular!

Gamages in Holborn used to feature Rokal in their catalogues in the 50s & early 1960s.

 

                              Ray.

[detheridge]

While we're about it, here's the discussion on the subject of freelance 00n3 layouts, and the whole Pug body/Jinty chassis approach:

http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/800-is-freelance-oon3-extinct/?hl=%2000n3%20%20clun%20%20valley%20%20tramway

 

 

David.

Apologies folks,

this should be the link: http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/800-is-freelance-oon3-extinct/

[Golden Fleece 30]

I have today received an LNWR 0-8-0 whitemetal kit which is here. The wheels are a push on type so I think I will be looking at getting some more Romfords or possibly making a Tri-ang type chassis especially as I would not want to use the K's motor itself. Its interesting that there is no manufacturers name on the instructions which also states "Be careful as no spares are produced". It does supply 2 different chimneys, square and round base, and 2 different cab sides with matching roofs.  It is something different and as all came into BR use it will be a valid loco on the layout.  For some reason there are some TT extended axles so I may look at another 08 one day (when mine gets finished).

 

Also received is the K's TT tender drive which I am interested in seeing how it runs/hauls. This is new and never been assembled and I have never seen one either in TT or 00 scale.  I have seen adverts etc but never one in the flesh.

 

Garry

 

[Robert Shrives]

looks fun . I think I am right in saying having same metals in a worm and worm wheel drive is not best practice, I wonder about how much mesh required as castings seem not to have any stops.  

 

Robert  

[Golden Fleece 30]

looks fun . I think I am right in saying having same metals in a worm and worm wheel drive is not best practice, I wonder about how much mesh required as castings seem not to have any stops.

 

Robert

That's right Robert, similar materials are not too good. If both are different grades of hardness it is better than as the same make up but who knows what K's did. Tri-ang always used brass for both worm and gear but whether it was different or not I don't know. Their set up mainly still works well. The instructions do say paper or card shims may be required. Looking at the LNWR loco I may get a one off chassis done for either the XT60 or a Romford terrier motor and Tri-ang wheels as I doubt I will get any Romfords this size.

 

Garry

Edited September 12, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Dava]

Amazing find, I never heard of the LNWR Super D being produced in TT though GEM did LNWR 4-4-0 & 4-6-0 locos. The castings look less massive than GEM. I think you're right about having a new chassis.

 

Dava

[Golden Fleece 30]

Amazing find, I never heard of the LNWR Super D being produced in TT though GEM did LNWR 4-4-0 & 4-6-0 locos. The castings look less massive than GEM. I think you're right about having a new chassis.

 

Dava

I was very surprised at it too and also with no name or address on the instructions which are laughable really. Things like "this was made too thin so solder some extra material on", and "we did not cast that as mistakes could be made", then "we did not do that as we did not think it would fit". I think I will be able to overcome any issues though.

 

Garry

[5050]

 "we did not cast that as mistakes could be made", then "we did not do that as we did not think it would fit".

 

It's a pity that a lot of other kit manufacturers didn't think the same way.  It would have saved an immense amount of communal grief over the years.

[Golden Fleece 30]

It's a pity that a lot of other kit manufacturers didn't think the same way.  It would have saved an immense amount of communal grief over the years.

I can see this from both sides of the argument.  Wills, and then SE Finecast as they became, never had any issues with any of their kits that I bought over the years.  K's bodies (ignore their chassis especially later ones) and GEM kits were not too bad, K's, being the size of them should really have looked at a better chassis design and then produced it.  But then Cornard and some other makes I have forgotten were just rubbish.  "Large" companies like Wills of the old day could probably afford to have a mistake on the first off and rectify it.  To me a large company should be able to get it right or not bother, those I put were only a few examples.  I guess it was a small "company" as with no name or chance of spares at the time.  This is the same with a lot of etched kits.  I personally cannot afford to have an etch made then modify it as even changing one hole size or position requires a complete new set up and therefore expense and as I only sell a small handful it would not be cost effective so I just put together one of etches and then state in the instructions what needs doing.  I only get about 9 or 10 made as the market is not big enough for what I do.  If I could sell 200 or so then yes I would certainly have the etch modified after a one off.

 

Garry

[The Tri-ang scale modeler]

Awesome work guy's! haven't any of you lot experimented with N scale Walschaerts valve gear on a TT loco? or in general including re-purposing super detail parts from a N scale locomotive's (rivet's lamps, railings, external lamp generators etc.,.) which could have considerably produce an attractive look for a competition. I mean I know N gauge is a few MM off. But the theory,  it could work.  Then again if you had already mentioned this somewhere else... Than I apologize, plus any ideas for a Corgi Hall class modification, I know I've said the latter and will take that into account, but specifically finding the right shade of scarlet that Corgi used for their Hogwarts Castle is interesting to find, especially one's that blend in... any ideas on appropriate firms? I'll see what I an do photograph wise. I just need to acquire some translucent two part epoxy first from the Home Depot for reinforcing the plastic cement first...

Edited September 13, 2017 by The Tri-ang scale modeler

[Golden Fleece 30]

Awesome work guy's! haven't any of you lot experimented with N scale Walschaerts valve gear on a TT loco? or in general including re-purposing super detail parts from a N scale locomotive's (rivet's lamps, railings, external lamp generators etc.,.) which could have considerably produce an attractive look for a competition. I mean I know N gauge is a few MM off. But the theory,  it could work.  Then again if you had already mentioned this somewhere else... Than I apologize, plus any ideas for a Corgi Hall class modification, I know I've said the latter and will take that into account, but specifically finding the right shade of scarlet that Corgi used for their Hogwarts Castle is interesting to find, especially one's that blend in... any ideas on appropriate firms? I'll see what I an do photograph wise. I just need to acquire some translucent two part epoxy first from the Home Depot for reinforcing the plastic cement first...

There are a couple of issues using N gauge valve gear that I can see 1) as you say a little small, and 2) none of it is sold as spares as far as I know.  For my valve gear it is easier to get parts I require etched to my specification. As for lamp irons etc I will let the more scale modellers do that, I am happy with a Tri-ang style "plain" look.

 

Regarding the Hall loco, I have one of these which will be converted into a runner one day but will be in BR green.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Today I received this nice little loco. I know it is continental and it is for a project, but, it looks new and unused. Before I start to use a knife and paint on it I would like to see if there is an old body out there that someone wants to sell?

 

Garry

[5050]

 I would like to see if there is an old body out there that someone wants to sell?

 

I would be happy to get rid of mine - provided I can find a much younger one in good condition.

[Robert Shrives]

Garry,

I have one tucked away for the class 22 as it has spoked wheels ! A good chassis for a class 29 as well due the spokes But your right about a 76 - the chassis in total might be a bit long and while possibly a box on wheels the DC electrics has some gentle curving and complex shapes, I look forward to where this takes you !

Robert