Anyone Interested in Ships

[The Stationmaster]

The 'device' is a sort of viewing pod which can be elevated and swung out alongside the ship to give passengers an extra 'experience' - presumably of looking at or down on the ship instead of looking at anything interesting from the ship.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRjQJXDBrL4

 

The 'mushroom farm appears to be just a lot of comms kit - presumably to ensure broadband and probably tv reception in every cabin, and there are an awful lot of cabins by the look of the thing (I go on a ship to get away from all that!!)

 

[25901]

Here’s a sad pic from 2013 of a ship some of us will remember from the 80s, should be a easy Christmas quiz for somebody to name her. 

[MarkC]

5 hours ago, 25901 said:

Here’s a sad pic from 2013 of a ship some of us will remember from the 80s, should be a easy Christmas quiz for somebody to name her. 

At a guess that's the former "Pacific Princess", aka 'The Love Boat', being scrapped at Aliaga?

[Kingzance]

There’s something sad about ships’ graveyards wherever they are, at least from my perspective having run one up the beach.

[Welly]

6 hours ago, Kingzance said:

There’s something sad about ships’ graveyards wherever they are, at least from my perspective having run one up the beach.

Blasting the horn for the very last time?

[New Haven Neil]

The Earnslaw is a remarkable vessel.  When I last sailed on her (some 20 years ago) IIRC she still had her original boilers.  Allegedly due to the high feed water quality - lake water!  The two boilers are locomotive type, rather than the Scotch boilers you may expect. She is beautifully kept too.

[johnofwessex]

16 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

The Earnslaw is a remarkable vessel.  When I last sailed on her (some 20 years ago) IIRC she still had her original boilers.  Allegedly due to the high feed water quality - lake water!  The two boilers are locomotive type, rather than the Scotch boilers you may expect. She is beautifully kept too.

 

I dont think that Locomotive type boilers are uncommon in inland waterway vessels.

 

The LMS steamers Caledonia & Mercury also had them

[colinreeves]

On 03/08/2019 at 14:27, Owd Bob said:

I know nothing about ships but i took this pic' at Hull around 1993 just before we boarded it for a weekend away in Amsterdam. It had a plaque inside which said it was the one that was used as a troop ship and went down to the Falklands. 

 

 

I appreciate this post was a long time ago (on page 43) but I have only just noticed it! Afraid that the Norsea did NOT go to the Falklands, it was the Norland, another North Sea Ferries vessel.

Please see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Norland

and http://www.poheritage.com/our-history/timeline/south-to-the-falklands

 

Norland was sold when the new Pride of Hull arrived in 2002 and went to the Medi for SNAV running between Naples and Sicily and was scrapped in 2010. 

Norsea remains in service (now renamed Pride of York) and operates Hull / Zeebrugge.

Edited January 26, 2020 by colinreeves
Additional info I missed - did not realise the picture would not show in the reply.

[colinreeves]

On 26/08/2019 at 14:55, Kickstart said:

 

 

Impressive. Is such a cut and shut common in shipping? Would think it would be a massive amount of work, once factoring in connecting up all the power and control equipment.

 

All the best.

 

Katy

 

Whilst it was long ago I think that Townsend Thoresen ferries were the mot spectacular. Essentially they took an existing ferry (in fact I recall it was at least four, two at Dover and two at Portsmouth), cut off horizontally and lifted the whole accommodation block, stored it, Cut the hull vertically into two, electric glued in a new section, cut off the bow and renewed it, built a complete new vehicle deck onto the hull and then refitted the original accommodation block on too of larger ship hull. Have a look at before and after pictures at: 

http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/Townsend-Thoresen3.html#anchor178427

 

Not particularly pretty, but economically very successful.

 

[MarkC]

"Cut and shut", whilst not common, is an accepted practice. I served 2009-11on a research ship that had been built in 1960, but in 1993 was cut in two, a new 10 metre section of hull welded in and a completely new accommodation block added. She then ran until 2012. I had more confidence in the ends - which were riveted - than the new section, but that's another story...

 

My present employer has 2 LPG carriers built in the late 1990s which were, at only 2 or 3 years old, lengthened and bigger cargo tanks installed. Good ships, although now approaching the end of their working lives with us, thanks to the policies of the oil majors and older tonnage. They'll probably end up in the Far East or South America, where they'll be good for another 10 years at least.

 

Mark

[KeithMacdonald]

Up the creek with a paddle, but no boiler.

 

Quote

 

A SHIP repair firm in Greenock has started work on the £2.3 million boiler refit of the iconic Waverley paddle steamer. The world famous vessel was towed from her berth in Glasgow to Greenock’s James Watt Dock last week to begin her boiler refit at Dales Marine Greenock. Billy Pollock, who is the operations manager at Dales Marine, said the work is expected to take three and half months to complete and will include a 12-14 day stint in the Garvel Dry Dock.

He said: "We do repairs on the Waverley every year so we are very familiar with it. "We are pleased to get the opportunity to get involved with the big job of refitting the boiler because we know the ship. "She's a very individual vessel." The Waverley is currently in a 'wet berth' at Dales as the specialist work gets under way and she will go into the dry dock in April for an MOT. The work includes fitting new boilers and electric generators. As part of that work, the Waverley’s iconic funnels are being lifted off to allow access to the boiler room. Billy added: "After that the boiler will come out before the new one goes in.

 

 

https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/18177849.work-started-2-3-million-boiler-refit-iconic-waverley-paddle-steamer/?ref=rss

 

 

[Legend]

Yes the Waverley is big news up here . Glad they raised the £2m + to reboiler her and that she will be cruising the Clyde again during the summer . She was much missed last year. Hopefully I'll get a trip to Tignabruich on her this year , through the Kyles of Bute .

[St Enodoc]

50 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Billy added: "After that the boiler will come out before the new one goes in.

Clearly a man who knows what he's talking about!

[KeithMacdonald]

8 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Billy added: "After that the boiler will come out before the new one goes in.

Clearly a man who knows what he's talking about!

 

Yes, I too was reassured that this shipyard might just know its arras from its elbow.

 

Unlike the Ferguson Marine shipyard?

 

Quote

 

Key components of a semi-built CalMac ferry at the Ferguson Marine shipyard will have to be scrapped, MSPs were told today. A botched project to build the Glen Sannox and a sister vessel will mean a “significant amount of pipework” being thrown away, according to Tim Hair, turnaround director of the nationalised yard.

 

Mr Hair said construction had started in Port Glasgow before the design was completed, and it had still to be finalised. He described the design engineering process as “badly flawed...it was a perfect ‘garbage in, garbage out’ situation.” He said: “There is a significant amount of pipework that is going to have to be scrapped, because if you make a change to structure of the vessel, you make a change to the location of a pump, then the pipes no longer fit and you have throw them away and start again.” Mr Hair said a coupling mechanism for joining pipes had also been used extensively without agreement. As a result, “just about every piece of pipework in the engine room will have to be removed and put back”. Elsewhere, Mr Hair said a 6ft section would have to be cut off the bow of the Glen Sannox and replaced because it did not need specifications. He said almost all current work on the ferries was remedial.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/significant-amount-of-pipework-to-be-scrapped-from-botched-ferguson-marine-built-calmac-ferry-1-5078972

[MarkC]

I've been following this story. An utter cluster****. Heads should roll for this.

 

There's also been a huge amount of wibble generated because they are going to burn *shock - horror* LNG. Talk about "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing..."

 

Mark

[KeithMacdonald]

11 minutes ago, MarkC said:

I've been following this story. An utter cluster****. Heads should roll for this.

 

Has that head-rolling started?

 

Quote

Michael Magnay and Robert Harding of Deloitte LLP were appointed Joint Administrators of Ferguson Marine Engineering Limited (“the Company”) on 16 August 2019. The affairs, business and property of the Company are managed by the Joint Administrators. The Joint Administrators act as agents of the Company without personal liability. The Joint Administrators are authorised by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales. All licensed insolvency practitioners of Deloitte LLP are licensed in the UK.

 

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Has that head-rolling started?

 

 

I doubt it as it has now been nationalised by the Scottish Govt.

[Legend]

3 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Yes, I too was reassured that this shipyard might just know its arras from its elbow.

 

Unlike the Ferguson Marine shipyard?

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/significant-amount-of-pipework-to-be-scrapped-from-botched-ferguson-marine-built-calmac-ferry-1-5078972

 

Yes that's even bigger news up here . Apparently they started cutting metal before design work completed .  A £97m contract now looks to be passing £200m  and I wouldn't be surprised if it reaches £250m.  At a time when Calmac really needs new tonnage this is a disgrace .   However as its the Scottish Govt who awarded the contract to a shipyard taken over by one of its major supporters (then, not now!) I suspect heads will be promoted rather than roll

[KeithMacdonald]

On 27/01/2020 at 15:37, Legend said:

 

Yes that's even bigger news up here . Apparently they started cutting metal before design work completed .  A £97m contract now looks to be passing £200m  and I wouldn't be surprised if it reaches £250m.  At a time when Calmac really needs new tonnage this is a disgrace .   However as its the Scottish Govt who awarded the contract to a shipyard taken over by one of its major supporters (then, not now!) I suspect heads will be promoted rather than roll

 

The plot thickens...

 

Quote

The controversial Ferguson ferry contract which the Scottish Government awarded to the highest of six bidders was based on "incompetence, vested interest or corruption", MSPs have been told. Ferguson Marine won the contract in 2015 to build two new CalMac ferries despite its £97 million bid being the most expensive, while experts now estimate that it will cost an additional £110 million for the work to be completed.  MSPs carrying out an inquiry into the delayed and over-budget new vessels were told by experts today that the Ferguson ferries appear to be "overspecified" for their purpose.

 

Tut tut...
 

Quote

 

Alf Baird, a fomer professor of maritime business at Edinburgh Napier University, said their design should be stripped down to basic vessels with their unnecessarily large passenger capacity reduced. He said the design was "specifying what is in effect a mini-cruise vessel to run a utilitarian shuttle ferry which is basically a bus".

 

MSPs also queried why the ferries - for the Arran and Skye-Harris-North Uist routes - were designed to run on either diesel or liquefied natural gas (LNG). They were told LNG would have to come from the south of England - a 1,000-mile trip to the ferry terminal at Uig, in the north of Skye. Mr Pedersen said: "That in itself is going to be probably on a diesel lorry." He added that it would "negate the relatively minor advantage" to the environment of using LNG.

 

 

This might be a Wee-Free kind of reaction. Scottish island folk are plain and simple folk, who only need the bare necessities. Make sure it's bare metal with benches that can be hosed-down. No soft southern comforts, like seats with cushions on our boats, thank you very much!

[Legend]

I don't know about the power train , that may well be over specified and the use of LNG where there are no storage facilities is baffling . I think this is a case of the Scottish Govt getting in on the green bandwagon  without thinking it fully through .  In fairness to them there was also a desire to have these ferries built in Scotland and preserve shipbuilding jobs on the Clyde , which is no bad thing , but not at any cost!   What is emerging is that these ships are over complicated for this yard to build , but there are many LNG ferries being built elsewhere without issue.   I also wouldn't say that they are over specified . Calmac ferries are very well used . The Arran Ferry certainly needs a good passenger capacity , and these boats are not just for the local islanders , although with some fairly long journeys ( I think Barra is 5 hours sailing ,  the Uig triangle which the second of these ships is for is about 2 hours) islanders do deserve some degree of comfort , like catering ! But these ferries are also used by increasing number of tourists travelling over our spectacular Western Isles .  Having said that ,they are decidedly not mini cruise vessels , unless you count having catering and a bar as a cruise ship .  I've yet to find the pool, solarium, fitness suite , pizzeria, theatre  in a Calmac boat . So I rather think Alf Baird is talking piffle . Could he perhaps be aligned to Pentland or Western Ferries , who do indeed offer very basic services?

 

Sorry for deviating from the RN , but it is at least maritime

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Legend

[MarkC]

The Telegraph is now reporting this

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/29/scottish-government-gave-ferguson-ferry-contract-highest-97m/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

 

It's a 'premium' article, so here's the text

 

QUOTE

The controversial Ferguson ferry contract which the Scottish Government awarded to the highest of six bidders was based on "incompetence, vested interest or corruption", MSPs have been told.

Ferguson Marine won the contract in 2015 to build two new CalMac ferries despite its £97 million bid being the most expensive, while experts now estimate that it will cost an additional £110 million for the work to be completed. 

MSPs carrying out an inquiry into the delayed and over-budget new vessels were told by experts today that the Ferguson ferries appear to be "overspecified" for their purpose.

Alf Baird, a former professor of maritime business at Edinburgh Napier University, said the granted contract was "specifying what is in effect a mini-cruise vessel to run a utilitarian shuttle ferry which is basically a bus".

Liberal Democrat MSP Mike Rumbles questioned why the contract had been awarded to the Ferguson yard, highlighting that it was the “highest price" of all the six yards competing for the job.

Roy Pedersen, a member of the Scottish Government's Ferry Industry Advisory Group, said: "I don't know the answer but three things spring to mind - one is incompetence, the other is vested interest and the other is corruption."

Mr Rumbles accused the SNP Government of pouring taxpayers money “down the drain” by  “opting for a company that it was known to be cosy with”.

“It’s also extremely worrying that Transport Scotland felt it necessary to highlight the close relationship between the SNP and the company which ultimately secured this huge government contract,” he said. 

“This entire process has been marred by a series of ill-thought through decisions. It’s an outrageous mess. The boats will arrive years late and the public are left paying for yet more mistakes. This government owes taxpayers an explanation.”

Concerns were also raised about the type of fuel to be used by the ships, either diesel or liquefied natural gas (LNG).

MSPs were told LNG would have to come from the south of England, meaning a 1,000-mile trip to the ferry terminal at Uig, in the north of Skye.

Mr Pedersen confirmed: "It is a roughly 1,000-mile round trip from the south of England to Uig to deliver the fuel. That in itself is going to be probably on a diesel lorry."

He said that would "negate the relatively minor advantage" to the environment of using LNG.

Mr Pedersen said: "Why build a ship with a capacity of 1,000 passengers for a route, namely the Uig routes, on which there has never been more than 312 passengers carried on any sailing, and when the average carryings are half that and in the winter time even less than that?"

He suggested work on the vessels should be scrapped and started again from scratch, telling the committee: "It's good business practice when you are on a losing run to cut your losses and start again, same when playing poker. It doesn't do to keep putting good money after bad.”

Meanwhile, representatives from the Western Isles told MSPs about the impact the delay in building the ferries has had on their communities.

Barra resident Eoin MacNeil said: "We've had five occasions where we haven't had a ferry for five days. I came out on the ferry last Friday and we haven't had a ferry since then.

"This time of year the stores are empty, the shops are empty, the medical supplies are drying up."

UNQUOTE

 

When words like "Corruption" are being freely bandied about, and without challenge, there may well be, as the saying goes, "troubled waters ahead".

 

Oh, and LNG in container-frame tanks is regularly delivered to Teesport on the RoRo service from Zeebrugge, and may well be easily available further north too. It wouldn't take much to set up a small LNG bunkering facility either - there has been one on the QEII Jetty on the Tees since late 2014, used for transferring LNG from the above-mentioned tanks to the LNG bunker tanks of ships like the "Coral Star" and "Coral Sticho", which are in and out of the Tees every few days in the course of their long-term charter carrying Ethylene from the Sabic-owned North Tees refinery.

 

Mark.

[KeithMacdonald]

It's a sorry story for sure.

 

Fortunately, I just happen to know where there's a bonnie wee boat that could plug the gap for a while...

 

 

With a hardworking and willing crew, used to minimum wages and arduous conditions (given a wee dram)...

 

 

[Legend]

Thanks for posting article . It is undoubtably a mess . The only thing I would say is that Roy Pedersen does have form here . He has written at least one book on the need for basic point to point ferry services . This in comparison to what he thinks are Calmac cruiseships . Not saying he isn't correct part of the time , but he does tend to have a rather blinkered view . This is right up his street.   The thing is , for £200m I think we could have had 4 or 5 suitably sized diesel ferries that would have done the job by now .

 

Barra resident came out with the last ferry on Friday and they haven't had a ferry since then........couldn't be anything to do with the weather per chance . As far as I'm aware all Calmacs major units are serviceable , although two are currently having their winter over hauls, but that's scheduled.

[Legend]

5 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

It's a sorry story for sure.

 

Fortunately, I just happen to know where there's a bonnie wee boat that could plug the gap for a while...

 

 

With a hardworking and willing crew, used to minimum wages and arduous conditions (given a wee dram)...

 

 

 

See that thing that's going up an doon ?   It should be going roon an roon.

We've just been passed by a seagull .  Oh they can fly pretty fast  Captain .     It was paddling!

 

For those not in the know , famous quotes from "The Vital spark"

Edited January 30, 2020 by Legend

[The Stationmaster]

6 hours ago, Legend said:

I don't know about the power train , that may well be over specified and the use of LNG where there are no storage facilities is baffling . I think this is a case of the Scottish Govt getting in on the green bandwagon  without thinking it fully through .  In fairness to them there was also a desire to have these ferries built in Scotland and preserve shipbuilding jobs on the Clyde , which is no bad thing , but not at any cost!   What is emerging is that these ships are over complicated for this yard to build , but there are many LNG ferries being built elsewhere without issue.   I also wouldn't say that they are over specified . Calmac ferries are very well used . The Arran Ferry certainly needs a good passenger capacity , and these boats are not just for the local islanders , although with some fairly long journeys ( I think Barra is 5 hours sailing ,  the Uig triangle which the second of these ships is for is about 2 hours) islanders do deserve some degree of comfort , like catering ! But these ferries are also used by increasing number of tourists travelling over our spectacular Western Isles .  Having said that ,they are decidedly not mini cruise vessels , unless you count having catering and a bar as a cruise ship .  I've yet to find the pool, solarium, fitness suite , pizzeria, theatre  in a Calmac boat . So I rather think Alf Baird is talking piffle . Could he perhaps be aligned to Pentland or Western Ferries , who do indeed offer very basic services?

 

Sorry for deviating from the RN , but it is at least maritime

 

 

The choice of an LNG fuelled vessel might or might not have been a bad decision.  But it was followed by two very bad decisions -

1. Giving the design contract to a concern which had no experience of designing LNG powered vessels, and

2. Giving the build contract to a yard which had no experience of building LNG powered vessels (and hardly had a very good reputation in recent years for building anything)

.