Romford crank-pins with Gibson wheels

[timbowilts]

I've done a forum search and there appear to be several threads about using Gibson crank-pins in Romford wheels but has anyone done the reverse?

 

I presume that it will be necessary to drill and tap the Gibson wheels 10BA to accept the Romford crank-pins but how feasible is this?

 

Awaiting loads of condemnation for this sacrilege but I'd rather use up my stock of Romford crank pins that purchase Gibson crank pins if I can use the Romfords

 

Tim T

[knitpick]

At the risk of seeming dim, shouldn't the Gibson wheels already be drilled and tapped to accept Gibson crank pins?  If so and given that you've already suggested that one can use Gibson crank pins on Romford wheels - by implication then the Romford crank pins must fit Gibson wheels?  The only query would be how they sit; whether there is a shoulder on either design of crank pin (and corresponding recess in the respective wheel) and whether such shoulders (if they exist) are near enough in size.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that the threads must match otherwise Gibson brank pins wouldn't fit Romford wheels.

 

Me?  I've used Tri-Ang crank "pins" (well screws actually) to attach Tri_ang coupling rods to Romford wheels.  A lot less faff than using Romford crank pins on Romford wheels together with etched coupling rods (yes OK I've done that too!).  Good old British standards!

 

PS - One of my mantras is that if it runs but doesn't look quite 100% it is still better than something that looks 100% but doesn't run.  

[timbowilts]

Err, I'm not trying to use Gibson crank-pins but Romford ones!

 

Tim T

[davknigh]

Most Gibson wheels are drilled for a 14 BA/M1 thread so opening up to a 10 BA means a large step up but doable. There were a few Gibson wheels that only had dimples at the spot where the crank pin should go and these would be a little more problematic unless you make a jig up ahead of time to ensure a consistent result.

 

HTH

 

David

[knitpick]

Err, I'm not trying to use Gibson crank-pins but Romford ones!

 

Tim T

 

Sorry if there is any confusion.  What I tried to say was:

 

If you can use Gibson crank pins on Romford wheels then logically you should be able to use Romford crank pins on Gibson wheels.

 

My argument is that both makes of wheels must be tapped to the same standard as the Gibson crank pins fit Romford wheels.  And thus the crank pins must also have the same thread.  Metric and Imperial bolt threads do NOT mix.

[knitpick]

Having read davknigh's post then assuming Romfords are 10BA and Gibsons 14BA then as he says you would have to open out a 14BA threaded hole with appropriate sized drill then tap 10BA.  You would need something to ensure the drill stayed vertical (ideally a drill stand) and clamp the wheel down whilst drilling.  

 

The only thing is that I have a rewheeled Tri-Ang loco with uncertain make of wheels - could be Gibson's or possibly Sharman's.  The point is that like the locos I've rewheeled with Romfords, I've used the original Tri-Ang coupling rods and crank pins / screws. 

[Arthur]

Knitpick is reading this from your OP

 

....there appear to be several threads about using Gibson crank-pins in Romford wheels...

 

and presuming that it's a simple case of just screwing a Gibson pin into a Romford wheel because the threads match and, if that were so, he's suggesting surely a Romford pin will screw into a Gibson wheel.

 

Which would be true but, as you are aware, the threads are different and modifications are required.

 

I've never tried to re-tap a Gibson wheel but would have thought it possible. Remember though, you'll be soldering the Romford retaining bush onto a brass crankpin screwed into a plastic wheel. Possible but better be quick with that iron.

 

Edit. Other postings already answered the question.

.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Arthur

[Michael Edge]

I've done a forum search and there appear to be several threads about using Gibson crank-pins in Romford wheels but has anyone done the reverse?

 

I presume that it will be necessary to drill and tap the Gibson wheels 10BA to accept the Romford crank-pins but how feasible is this?

 

Awaiting loads of condemnation for this sacrilege but I'd rather use up my stock of Romford crank pins that purchase Gibson crank pins if I can use the Romfords

 

Tim T

 

I do this routinely, drill the Gibson wheels 10BA tapping size (1.4mm) and tap the thread. Not all Gibson wheels have a hole, some just have a dimple but the drill can be located accurately, use a pillar drill, make sure the wheel is held flat and feed it slowly - if the drill snatches it will damage the wheel. Screw the crankpin in with Loctite 270 and it won't unscrew (ever!), you should do this for Romford/Markits wheels as well.

[Daddyman]

I do this routinely, drill the Gibson wheels 10BA tapping size (1.4mm) and tap the thread. Not all Gibson wheels have a hole, some just have a dimple but the drill can be located accurately, use a pillar drill, make sure the wheel is held flat and feed it slowly - if the drill snatches it will damage the wheel. Screw the crankpin in with Loctite 270 and it won't unscrew (ever!), you should do this for Romford/Markits wheels as well.

Agree. Not sacrilege at all. I've done it ever since Mike Edge taught me the trick, and have never looked back. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

I've never tried to re-tap a Gibson wheel but would have thought it possible. Remember though, you'll be soldering the Romford retaining bush onto a brass crankpin screwed into a plastic wheel. Possible but better be quick with that iron.

I've not tried it myself, but I've seen a method described on NGRM Online where you put the chassis in a plastic tub and fill it with water to just above the wheels (leaving the bit you want to solder exposed). The water acts as a heat sink. 

[The Fatadder]

Interesting to read

 

I have a set on which I need to do the oporsit

Though the remains of the original Romford pins are stuck in the holes....

[RexAshton]

I'm just building a NLR 0-6-0T for a client and using Gibson wheels with Romford crank pins. There's no problem but you need to redrill and tap the wheels 10BA. I've used a tiny drop of super glue on the threads to make sure the pins don't come loose in service. The only tricky bit is soldering the Romford bush in place. You have to be quick to avoid softening the plastic centre of the wheel. Romford do a deluxe version of their crank pin with a threaded bush but I didn't have any.

[Daddyman]

The only tricky bit is soldering the Romford bush in place. You have to be quick to avoid softening the plastic centre of the wheel. Romford do a deluxe version of their crank pin with a threaded bush but I didn't have any.

There's no need to solder (though I know Mike Edge does) and certainly no need to use the Romford washer, which scales at 7" - see page 680 of Tony Wright's "Wright Writes" thread on here, where Mike describes and illustrates his method, and I describe my (possibly inferior) method. 

[clecklewyke]

I have always used Gibson wheels and crank pins. They are designed for each other, look good and work well.

 

The only reason I can think of for not using the correct crankpins is that you have a stock of an alternative. However that  requires extra work and the possibility of  damaging the wheel or getting the crankpin out of alignment, with consequent poor running.

 

Given that the Gibson crankpins cost only 95p per wheel I cannot see why you should take the risk of not using them.

 

Ian

[timbowilts]

Cleclewyke, does the fact that I'm a Tyke from the "broad acres" with a stock of Romford crankpins explain my desire to "cross-kit" the wheels/crankpins?

 

Tim T, a yorkshireman exiled in Witshire for forty years

[clecklewyke]

Tim, when you are as old as me you will realise that time is running out and every minute saved by spending  few pennies is worth the cash. If I don't spend it either my children or the tax man will! 

 

But it's a dilemma, I'm as mean-fisted as any other Tyke so I do understand where you are coming from.

 

Ian