philiprporter Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Given that Standedge Tunnel is almost complete (will post a few 'finished' pictures in a couple of weeks all being well) I've decided to start planning a new project. I lived in Manchester for a few years in the 1990s and was always captivated by the insanely long double-headed class 86 hauled freightliner trains rattling slowly across the bridge over Oxford Road. Plenty of that still going on today and with Pendolinos making the back street journey to Piccadilly on occasions and all manner of other traffic it seemed like a great location to model. I'm also wanting to do something a little unusual in that the viewer will look at the layout lengthways as if standing in the middle of the road looking towards the centre of Manchester and will only see trains as they head across the bridge; so the layout will be deeper than it is wide. Trains in the landscape is what I'm looking for - but in this case an urban landscape and that sensation you have in many urban areas of only getting brief glimpses as trains weave their way through the urban jungle. I was inspired to take up n-gauge modelling by the wonderful urban n-gauge models and layouts of Graham Hedges and so thought I had better try and tackle an urban setting, as in my view, this is much more challenging modelling than the rolling scenics of Standedge Tunnel. The wonderful Refuge Assurance Building (Palace Hotel and now the controversially re-named Principal Hotel) is going to be a big, big challenge and I guess will be the centrepiece of the layout, but I'm also looking forward to modelling the slightly grotty archway areas under the running lines and some wonderful urban buildings such as the Salisbury Pub. The station throat trackwork and the start of the platforms will be modelled but that will be all. The view up the road to central Manchester will be a photographic backscene and it will hopefully 'work' as you have the Manchester Central Library blocking the view and creating a natural 'end' - looking south, its more open and I don't think would work as well. The buildings will extend as far as the end of the Refuge Building, so will include the Cornerhouse. The southern limit will be where the River Medlock crosses under the road to the west. I'm never quite sure whether I'm allowed to post Google Earth images, but hopefully this description makes some sort of sense. Here is a full-size mock up of the area (imagination needed! The tan areas are buildings) - although some space on the right needs adding and some space on the left needs taking away so that Oxford Road is dead centre. OHLE portals have been ordered as well as some colour light signals. I hope this can come together a little quicker than Standedge tunnel and I have to say that I'm quite excited about how this may turn out - fingers crossed and I blame Revolution trains for all this (KFAs, Pendolinos etc!) and Dapol's excellent class 86 and soon to come Pacer - too many WCML/NW tempters there! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
87023Velocity Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Hi Philip, That sounds a great idea and concept. Will certainly be watching with interest. Cheers Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 This could come in handy as look which building is at the top of the page!!.... https://manchesterarchiveplus.wordpress.com/2014/12/08/blueprints-of-a-city-manchesters-architectural-plans/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 This could come in handy as look which building is at the top of the page!!.... https://manchesterarchiveplus.wordpress.com/2014/12/08/blueprints-of-a-city-manchesters-architectural-plans/ That looks a useful resource. The aerial 3D facility on Google maps is also helpful to get an idea of buildings and their relationships. In N gauge there is a tendency to look down on the models so getting the roofs right is important. With Google maps you can effectively fly around overhead. G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 That looks a useful resource. The aerial 3D facility on Google maps is also helpful to get an idea of buildings and their relationships. In N gauge there is a tendency to look down on the models so getting the roofs right is important. With Google maps you can effectively fly around overhead. G Thanks Graham - just had a look and it seems clearer than Google Earth so thanks for that tip. One issue I'm not quite sure how to overcome is working out the height of buildings - the 'eye' height in Google Earth gives a measure but I suspect its not that accurate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy water Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 How is the model progressing? It is a interesting location with great possibilities for varied train operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2018 Thanks Graham - just had a look and it seems clearer than Google Earth so thanks for that tip. One issue I'm not quite sure how to overcome is working out the height of buildings - the 'eye' height in Google Earth gives a measure but I suspect its not that accurate? Hi there. The best way is to use triangulation but you have to go to manchester and do it on the ground as it were. You don't need a theodolite, well not a real one you can make one out of a couple of bits of wood and a protractor I can give you a design if you can't figure it out. I don't know how you do it from a photo but I've used it to measure a couple of castle tower heights and I was within 6" of the published heights. Stand in front of the building at a known distance say 100 meters sight on the top of the building and measure the angle from the horizontal and do the math. The angle of the building is 90 deg and your distance is say 100 m so you will have two angles and a known distance from where you stand the rest is easy then you add the height of your makeshift theodolite from the ground and you will have a pretty good idea of the height of the building. Sorry it's not much good to you if you can't get to manchester and do it but even so people on this forum do live in or near manchester and I'm sure if ask nicely someone will help you out. As I said I can give you a design for the theo that will cost you about 10p. Oh and a camera tripod or monopod will be good and a tape measure although you can buy a gadget from a hardware store that will measure distance for about a tenner without having use a tape or even pace it out. Failing all that just pace it out and it will be pretty close. Just think Pythagoras and your there. Regards Lez.Z. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 Not much progress to report I'm afraid, although I have been busy buying components (colour light signals, OHLE, Redutex red brick 'papers' for the Refuge Building etc.) and got sidetracked with my first attempts at respraying stock after being inspired by Cornish Trains Jez of this parish (see this amazing thread! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/98901-this-is-euston/ ) - its addictive but does prevent progress on other things!! At least this pair will look at home on the new layout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 Hi there. The best way is to use triangulation but you have to go to manchester and do it on the ground as it were. You don't need a theodolite, well not a real one you can make one out of a couple of bits of wood and a protractor I can give you a design if you can't figure it out. I don't know how you do it from a photo but I've used it to measure a couple of castle tower heights and I was within 6" of the published heights. Stand in front of the building at a known distance say 100 meters sight on the top of the building and measure the angle from the horizontal and do the math. The angle of the building is 90 deg and your distance is say 100 m so you will have two angles and a known distance from where you stand the rest is easy then you add the height of your makeshift theodolite from the ground and you will have a pretty good idea of the height of the building. Sorry it's not much good to you if you can't get to manchester and do it but even so people on this forum do live in or near manchester and I'm sure if ask nicely someone will help you out. As I said I can give you a design for the theo that will cost you about 10p. Oh and a camera tripod or monopod will be good and a tape measure although you can buy a gadget from a hardware store that will measure distance for about a tenner without having use a tape or even pace it out. Failing all that just pace it out and it will be pretty close. Just think Pythagoras and your there. Regards Lez.Z. Thanks Lez thats really helpful! I can borrow a compass-clinonometer from work which will give me the angle and as luck would have it, I have to travel to Manchester in the not-too-distant future! Lets hope I don't get too many strange looks or attract the attention of the local bobby!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted February 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2018 The Oxford Road project is a really interesting idea, I do hope you manage to build it in due course. As a bit of a trial run, you could enter a mini version in the cakebox challenge, containing just the bridge, the buildings either side and a photo for the backscene. No trains running to represent the daily signal failure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 Not much progress to report here aside from spending a lot of money on OHLE and colour signals and still enjoying respraying locos! A house move which I hope can happen in the next few months should give me the space to start building this - will be using 'off the shelf' laser cut baseboards as the foam board that I used on Standedge was a nightmare - ended with so much plywood edging and support that I may as well have started with plywood from the outset! Anyway, here's the latest respray - a nightmare to put the loco back together (every detailing part seemed to ping off into the stratosphere never to be seen again!), but worth it in the end - just needs nameplates, brass buffers and buffer beam detailing now. The only problem with this respraying lark is that each loco looks better than the previous one as its a steep learning curve, so the early ones are probably bound for the Superstrip again and even this later one looks a bit ragged round the cab roof and red stripe ! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 Still no layout work but enjoying some detailing work now-very rewarding doing this in n-gauge as I didn't think it would make much of a difference to loco appearance, but it really does! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash39 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 You do yourself an injustice, my first respray attempts were very crude. I've been learning on and off for around 5 years and I couldn't do a better job than you've done on that 86, looks great! A fair bit of masking there too. Looking forward to hopefully seeing the layout develop in due course. Sounds an interesting idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 This looks like a good concept and I'm interested in the railway in the landscape approach. I tend to try to balance scenery and track on my layouts as I feel nothing looks worse than oodles of track and a bit of scenery thrown in almost as a token gesture! The resprays look good, don't beat yourself up over small errors that you see, the camera always makes things look worse too as you are looking at it at many times the magnification that you would in reality. I will be watching this with interest as my next layout plan will also be WCML based as I really cannot leave the wires alone!! I'm planning Stafford station at the turn of the 90s, of course using my N2 track standard again, Won't be getting started on that until middle of next year though I wouldn't think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 gonna keep an eye on this one as do alot of my deliveries in that area so see alot of the long freight liners on the arches from many different angles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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