Layout Help Please

[Nick Holliday]

I don't know if it has been suggested already, and having trawled though the 18 pages of this once, I am not in a mind to do it again. At the moment, in WHSmiths (other newsagents etc are available) there are at least two layout design magazines with ideas, plans and inspiration, produced by the modelling magazines themselves. They are relatively inexpensive and might help you to curb your aspirations and find something that meets much of your wishlist, and could fit in the space you have, whatever that is.

As for your 2 x 4 plan, what do you intend to do with it? All I can see you doing is shuttling backwards and forwards with little purpose, or have a missed a key ingredient in your design. An Inglenook design would at last give a reason for shunting, if that's what you want.

I don't understand another comment that a 6 foot long train might not be enough for a branch line - given you appear to be working in OO that represents a train of seven Mk 1 coaches, and most people would be more than happy to have that for their crack express train. Branch line coaches tended to be shorter, and a good train would be three or four coaches, perhaps just over three foot long, four foot including a loco.

BTW - the range of funny looking symbols along the bottom right hand edge of each posting is intended to allow you to express "thanks" ,"like" or even a sort of "Wow!" without creating yet another post and using them will help to save a polar bear or something.

[Crewlisle]

Ed,

 

I have been following the progress of your questions & all the answers.  In many instances your questions seem to be going around in ever decreasing circles.  The members who have tried to answer your questions appear to have spent a lot of time with diagrams, photos & long descriptions on how to do what you want.  And still you come up with more & more questions!

 

I have been a member for many years & other members who ask for advice on building a layout from initial thoughts, scale, plan & up to the finished article do it in a fraction of the posts on this forum (450) & certainly less than three months!

 

I am a cynical old b+++++d & I have come to the conclusion that you are just winding us all up! 

 

Peter 

[Andrew P]

Ed,

 

I have been following the progress of your questions & all the answers.  In many instances your questions seem to be going around in ever decreasing circles.  The members who have tried to answer your questions appear to have spent a lot of time with diagrams, photos & long descriptions on how to do what you want.  And still you come up with more & more questions!

 

I have been a member for many years & other members who ask for advice on building a layout from initial thoughts, scale, plan & up to the finished article do it in a fraction of the posts on this forum (450) & certainly less than three months!

 

I am a cynical old b+++++d & I have come to the conclusion that you are just winding us all up! 

 

Peter 

And Crewlisle is one CLASSIC Layout that would be a great inspiration Ed.

[Ed Winterbury]

Thanks, Andy! So far, I've whittled it down to Crewlisle and Graham Nicholas' Aberdeen-inspired layout as primary inspiration. Graham says that he could do me the favour of compiling a track plan for Aberdeen soon, so I will wait for that and hopefully, I'll be where the layout is this Christmas to get measurement accurate to the inch.

[Ed Winterbury]

The 4x2 layout's board is still in the production centre, then onto the 'snail mail' before arriving my (normal) home. I just hope I'm not away when it's delivered.

[Harlequin]

Crewlisle is one of the most densely-packed, multi-level layouts out there and fits in a roughly square space (8.5ft by 7.5ft).

 

At best you've got 14ft by 6ft to play with by my estimation, reducing to ~4ft width near the window. That favours a more linear layout and even that will significantly impact on the usable space in your kitchen.

 

I hope that Graham Nicholas is not going to too much effort in creating a track plan for you.

 

Edit: To further explain what I'm saying: It's fine to use layouts like Crewlisle as inspiration for individual elements of your design but no single layout is going to provide a pattern that you can use directly. Furthermore, you've seen just about every possible design now and all the possible elements (circuits, end-to-end, termini, through stations, fiddle yards, sidings, kick-backs, passing loops, crossovers, reversing loops, turntables, etc, etc...) so there's very little to be gained by extracting yet more track plans from people.

 

Measurement to the nearest 5mm would be better and some photos of the room.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Harlequin

[Ed Winterbury]

I will try to get it to the cm, I can't get it any more detailed. I should hope that Graham does create the plan.

[LNER4479]

Afternoon, Ed

 

Was at my Dad's last night. Thought that the easiest way would be to simply take a series of pictures systematically making my way round the layout. All the key features of the trackplan should be apparent from these.

 

On the basis that I've already posted a picture of the station itself, then we start here which shows the main station throat. The double track mainline that has climbed up from the bottom level is top left then, once under the gantry, fans out to serve the 6 platforms. Goods trains arrive in the goods reception loop alongside (the third road under the gantry, just above the oil tankers). The goods yard pilot then shunts trains from here into the goods yard via the headshunt (bottom right). Alongside Platform 1 (top right) are the two carriage sidings. The A4 (top left) is on the depot reception road which also doubles up as the carriage headshunt.

 

Moving round anti-clockwise, this view shows the right hand side of the MPD and the pointwork that allows goods trains to come off the mainline into the goods reception road shown above. The mainline is already starting its descent down to the bottom level at this point.

 

Further round, this shows the other half of the MPD. Each of the four shed roads can hold 3 locos.

 

Looking a bit further round, this view gives a glimpse of the fiddle yard at the bottom level. Trains arrive in curving round parallel (although at a lower level) with the mainline which is continuing to descend on the now non-scenic side of the retaining wall. Bottom left is the double track formation of the lower level continuous run.

 

This now shows more of the visible section of the lower level circuit and the through station. The dead end fiddle yard roads (6 in all) are covered along most of their length by the village scene.

 

Finally, this view shows the whole layout. The ends of the fiddle yard roads (bottom left) are left open so as to be able to uncouple locos. There is a turntable at the other end of the fiddle yard so a fresh loco simply backs down and takes the train back out on its next run. Brake vans are simply crane shunted from one end to the other (nothing fancy involved!). Note the lift out section (bottom) which is lifted out(!) for easy access in this view; that simply gets slotted back in again for a running session. Track breaks are judiciously included in the tracks either side such that a train would stop if the bridge wasn't up! The double track junction where the incline down from the terminus station to the continuous run is underneath the covered section bottom left. If you look hard enough you can just see the toe end of one of the points. Underneath the main station (right hand side), the continuous circuit simply continues round until it comes back out again at the other end of the room. There are however two loops (one either side) such that a train can be stored en route to/from the fiddle yard. A single track junction leads off into the fiddle yard more or less beneath where the goods yard is.

 

Obviously, the lower level was installed, wired up and thoroughly tested before the top boards were put on(!) There is an indicator panel with lights to show the lie of the points. It is possible to reach underneath and fish out a derailed train if required but, quite honestly, this is a very rare occurrence. Careful initial tracklaying and equally careful running has meant very few problems with this arrangements over the last 10 years or so since the layout has been in operation.

 

To give you an idea, the layout is more or less complete now after 10 years. My Dad is retired and therefore been able to work on the layout most days over that period, doing a little bit at a time. This isn't something that can be set up in five minutes or even six months. But - like I said before - it shows what can be fitted into this sort of space if you're OK with modest length trains.

 

And I checked with him: overall dimensions 14’ 4” x 7’ 6”

Edited November 16, 2017 by LNER4479

[Andrew P]

Afternoon, Ed

 

Was at my Dad's last night. Thought that the easiest way would be to simply take a series of pictures systematically making my way round the layout. All the key features of the trackplan should be apparent from these.

 

WP_20171115_21_21_50_Pro1.jpg

On the basis that I've already posted a picture of the station itself, then we start here which shows the main station throat. The double track mainline that has climbed up from the bottom level is top left then, once under the gantry, fans out to serve the 6 platforms. Goods trains arrive in the goods reception loop alongside (the third road under the gantry, just above the oil tankers). The goods yard pilot then shunts trains from here into the goods yard via the headshunt (bottom right). Alongside Platform 1 (top right) are the two carriage sidings. The A4 (top left) is on the depot reception road which also doubles up as the carriage headshunt.

 

WP_20171115_21_22_50_Pro.jpg

Moving round anti-clockwise, this view shows the right hand side of the MPD and the pointwork that allows goods trains to come off the mainline into the goods reception road shown above. The mainline is already starting its descent down to the bottom level at this point.

 

WP_20171115_21_23_01_Pro.jpg

Further round, this shows the other half of the MPD. Each of the four shed roads can hold 3 locos.

 

WP_20171115_21_23_13_Pro.jpg

Looking a bit further round, this view gives a glimpse of the fiddle yard at the bottom level. Trains arrive in curving round parallel (although at a lower level) with the mainline which is continuing to descend on the now non-scenic side of the retaining wall. Bottom left is the double track formation of the lower level continuous run.

 

WP_20171115_21_23_24_Pro.jpg

This now shows more of the visible section of the lower level circuit and the through station. The dead end fiddle yard roads (6 in all) are covered along most of their length by the village scene.

 

WP_20171115_21_24_35_Pro.jpg

Finally, this view shows the whole layout. The ends of the fiddle yard roads (bottom left) are left open so as to be able to uncouple locos. There is a turntable at the other end of the fiddle yard so a fresh loco simply backs down and takes the train back out on its next run. Brake vans are simply crane shunted from one end to the other (nothing fancy involved!). Note the lift out section (bottom) which is lifted out(!) for easy access in this view; that simply gets slotted back in again for a running session. Track breaks are judiciously included in the tracks either side such that a train would stop if the bridge wasn't up! The double track junction where the incline down from the terminus station to the continuous run is underneath the covered section bottom left. If you look hard enough you can just see the toe end of one of the points. Underneath the main station (right hand side), the continuous circuit simply continues round until it comes back out again at the other end of the room. There are however two loops (one either side) such that a train can be stored en route to/from the fiddle yard. A single track junction leads off into the fiddle yard more or less beneath where the goods yard is.

 

Obviously, the lower level was installed, wired up and thoroughly tested before the top boards were put on(!) There is an indicator panel with lights to show the lie of the points. It is possible to reach underneath and fish out a derailed train if required but, quite honestly, this is a very rare occurrence. Careful initial tracklaying and equally careful running has meant very few problems with this arrangements over the last 10 years or so since the layout has been in operation.

 

To give you an idea, the layout is more or less complete now after 10 years. My Dad is retired and therefore been able to work on the layout most days over that period, doing a little bit at a time. This isn't something that can be set up in five minutes or even six months. But - like I said before - it shows what can be fitted into this sort of space if you're OK with modest length trains.

 

And I checked with him: overall dimensions 14’ 4” x 7’ 6”

Truly inspirational. Thanks for sharing.

[Ed Winterbury]

Indeed. Thanks!

[Ed Winterbury]

I'm currently wrestling with how long trains need to be for a secondary mainline in the 50s and 60s, though Blue Pullmans and HST may feature.

Can I please have some help?

[Andy Y]

Can I please have some help?

Spend some time studying the prototype and do your own research (you may do something with it then rather than moving on to ask more questions). I did warn you about this only yesterday in a PM.

 

As I advised, if you keep up with incessant questions that you could help yourself with I will just remove your access. If you do persist I can reasonably make the assumption you are doing it to waste and exhaust the goodwill of contributors.

[Colin_McLeod]

Ed I am arriving late to this thread but my advice is as follows:

 

Keep it simple, just get started.

[Harlequin]

Hi Ed,

 

Did you find out how long blue Pullman trains were? (Google and Wikipedia know all!)

 

Have you worked out whether building a layout in your proposed location is achievable? And if so have you managed to measure the space?

[Ed Winterbury]

Well, a quick update: I've put down some track on the 4'x2' board mentioned, it's a shunting puzzle. I have a tape measure and I'm at the layout now. I think I'll do it today. Just bear with me a couple of hours. I've moved on a bit and have been considering a through branch line station as well as mainline through stations and termini.

[Ed Winterbury]

I've arrived at a figure of 4' to 6', but am still sceptical about if that's enough. On another note, a recent trip to Scotland has helped to locate the layout. I wonder if a normal LED lighting strip is enough to create a night-time effect.

[Ed Winterbury]

Dimensions are... 3900mm (3m 90cm or approx 13') x 7'6" or 2m 20cm. A bit longer but a bit narrower than the rough predictions. There's also a little bit that pokes out and the dimensions are 3'-ish 50cm. Whilst I would like to utilise this small space, it seems fairly unlikely anything would fit in.

[Ed Winterbury]

My phone/camera is temporarily occupied, but I will photograph the puzzle when I can get hold of the phone-maybe.

[Harlequin]

It's difficult to visualise those dimensions, especially the "little bit that pokes out". Any chance of a rough sketch? It doesn't have to be to scale, as long as the dimensions are clearly marked.

[Colin_McLeod]

And please use either metric or imperial.

[Ed Winterbury]

Ok. I want to use imperial but tape measure is metric. Here's a sketch: 

Partially obscured by volume indicator.

[Ed Winterbury]

I'll be heading back to London tomorrow lunchtime, so any other suggestions for on-site work would be appreciated sooner rather than later. By the way, there's the option of a 8' x 2'6" station board being tagged on, but the location for said section will need a lot of careful planning.

[Harlequin]

OK... I'm going to assume that the largest of the three rectangles is 3900*2200mm. Is that correct?

 

Are there walls on three sides?

 

Could you post some photos of the space, please?

Edited January 4, 2018 by Harlequin

[Ed Winterbury]

Walls are on the top, left and bottom. Yes, the largest rectangle is 3900 x 2200 mm, the second one is supposed to represent where 2' or 2' 6" boards would go up to. As I'm starting from scratch, should I make them 2' 6" to allow for more scenery or track?

[Ed Winterbury]

The space is quite cluttered, but I will take some photos today to send it to you.