Layout Help Please

[Harlequin]

Harlequin, as I haven't been to my holiday home since the summer, I can't measure up. I know I should, but I'm 75 miles away. I'm going to be sketching up today, so maybe my own Trax-made plans will start surfacing...

Hi Ed,

 

Well, that just raises even bigger questions:

 

Why do you want a layout that you will only visit once every 3 or 4 months?

 

Is that a realistic goal? (I would like to have all sorts of nice things in my life but I know they're not realistic so I don't waste my time or other people's asking how to achieve them.)

 

How will you possibly find the time to build it? It will take decades to get to the stage of having any track laid at this rate!

 

What really is the driving force behind this request-for-help topic?

 

Come on, Ed. Think it through and if you still think it's realistic give us some positive proof that a layout really will get built.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Harlequin

[Harlequin]

The terminus will be effectively a pure Minories plan with a single track throat, but the kickback will be sited onto Platform Two (the middle).

 

 

OK, somebody is going to say it, so it may as well be me, while I'm here:

 

The whole point of the Minories design is that it has two running lines entering it. A single track throat will not be a Minories plan, just a station throat.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Harlequin

[Pacific231G]

OK, somebody is going to say it, so I may as well be me, while I'm here:

 

The whole point of the Minories design is that it has two running lines entering it. A single track throat will not be a Minories plan, just a station throat.

Absolutely right. If you want a single track throat into a three platform terminus there are far more efficient track layouts available. In fact you can do it with just two points as did the West Highland Line for its terminus at Fort William (sadly replaced by a less interesting terminus in about 1970 to make way for a bypass)

 

Granted the Fort  originally had a releasing crossover but, despite some very busy making and breaking of trains and a lot of work for the station pilot the crossover saw little actual use and was eventually removed so my suggestion of building an Inglenook could be applied to a main line passenger terminus. 

Ft. William was a reversing junction and in summer, with relief trains, it could handle up to three trains at once. With restaurant cars or sleepers coming off or going on the trains to and from Glasgow and the observation car running on the shortened portions of the same trains between there and Mallaig it was, several times a day, the scene of frantic activity. It was the first place where I actually enjoyed seeing diesels at work.

 

I think that Ft. William may have also inspired John Charman's classic Charford Branch as he was an RAF flying officer based near Edinburgh when he built it.

 

 

This track plan was so good operationally that he incorporated his original terminus into much extended versions of the iayout for the next thirty years. With minor modification and lengthening it's also an excellent basis for a three platform main line terminus that could very easily, with the extral length of a crossover, be turned into a double track main line at a later date

 

 

I'm actually very tempted by this plan as an alternative to Minories as it would allow for longer main line trains in the four metre length I have available with just as much operation.

 

I also found a pre-war O gauge layout built by E.A.Beet that followed a very similar and also attractive design.

 

It's possible that this may have been John Charman's inspiration as it was featured in magazines before and soon after the war. The main station board was just ten feet long in O gauge so I reckon that a European H0 or British OO version of it could handle five or six coach trains in a length of about eight feet which is very termpting.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Siberian Snooper]

I will be going to my club tonight, but the interest in either perfectionist O, or N. There's nearly no interest in BR. (Other than the semi-defunct group for that ancient layout in the cupboard which has dispersed).

Doesn't matter what their interest is, a train set, is a train set.

 

My girlfriend lives 185 miles away, but I get to see her every few weeks, so no excuse not to get down the holiday home, otherwise it's pointless having one.

[Flying Pig]

...

I think that Ft. William may have also inspired John Charman's classic Charford Branch as he was an RAF flying officer based near Edinburgh when he built it.

 

charford original peco med points.jpg

 

This track plan was so good operationally that he incorporated his original terminus into much extended versions of the iayout for the next thirty years. With minor modification and lengthening it's also an excellent basis for a three platform main line terminus that could very easily, with the extral length of a crossover, be turned into a double track main line at a later date

 

3 platform Charford mod extended.jpg

 

I'm actually very tempted by this plan as an alternative to Minories as it would allow for longer main line trains in the four metre length I have available with just as much operation.

...

 

 

With a single crossover, wouldn't it be more usual (at least in British practice) for it to be trailing? I've illustrated this by flipping the plan, though it messes up the goods sidings somewhat. I think I would forget the kickback and make the sidings trail off the up line, shunting using that running line.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Doesn't matter what their interest is, a train set, is a train set.

 

My girlfriend lives 185 miles away, but I get to see her every few weeks, so no excuse not to get down the holiday home, otherwise it's pointless having one.

 

I would imagine you get more from your girlfriend than Ed does from his holiday home!

From what I can deduce, it's all about motivation?

 

Mike.

[crazynitwit]

I currently have 6 boards, two 4'x2' and four 6'x2'. I have spent the summer moving my very lightweight, 18mm MDF boards around, but to no avail. I have more or less given up on a workable layout. Any help? I work in 00 gauge and would like the opportunity to run an interesting service. A small branch with very little happening doesn't appeal. Thanks!

you have up to 32 feet of running length. If you wanted you could do an end to end with a curve in it. So, one industry at one end and on other on the other end with a few sidings maybe a station along the way.

[Pacific231G]

With a single crossover, wouldn't it be more usual (at least in British practice) for it to be trailing? I've illustrated this by flipping the plan, though it messes up the goods sidings somewhat. I think I would forget the kickback and make the sidings trail off the up line, shunting using that running line.

 

Studio_20171110_141131.jpg

I'm really just playing with John Charman's plan for Charford to compare it with Minories and, with only room for medium radius points trying to ensure that passenger trains at least never meet a reverse curve without some straight track between the curves. . 

For a single track main line it's not a crossover and the kickback is more a place for the station pilot to lurk though it could be the connection with an off-stage loco depot . To make this into the terminus of a double track main line you'd have to extend the kickback to form the up line (assuming this isn't a London terminus when it would be the down line) and add a second crossover which would be trailing though that could be happening off-stage in the fiddle yard.

 

If the terminus is the end of a purely single track main line then I do like Beet's plan which uses the basebord's width very efficiently and from the photo looks rather attractive with good operating potential . It doesn't though have quite the busy city terminus feel that Minories provides and is more like the other end of a secondary main line akin to a Fort William, Oban or Kingswear.  The upper platform also does have a reverse curve which I'm trying to avoid. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Ed Winterbury]

Ok, the Fort William plan is the sort of plan I had in mind. Harlequin, here are the answers- I have the layout in the holiday home because there's no space in our London accommodation. Is it achievable? Yes, as when I go I usually go for at least 5 nights or so. Therefore, I can dedicate whole days to modelling. Either way, I can lay track and get things started in just a few hours. The driving force behind the topic is having had nothing to play with over summer (the MDF being moved around) and of course a passion in railway modelling. I have spoken with the club members, and this is a summary of what they said:

 

6ft long trains have been enough (this is a branch line, and I wonder if it is enough...)

 

Sequencing and multiple operators doubles or triples the fun with minimal outlay (help on how to compile a sequence please, and also advice on where I might get additional operators)

 

Don't build too small (from the N gauge team, where 'big' in their vocabulary is about 15' by 4')

 

Never build a major mainline (club secretary)

[Ed Winterbury]

The layout has been created but measures a whopping 9' by 21' (maybe for the future...). I think my efforts have gone terribly- there's a very distinct 'train set' look and also is huge, but possesses only one mainline. This might be the worst possible plan to solve the problem.

This is the worst possible plan... I really think I need to take a course in track planning software...

[Siberian Snooper]

If you have not built a layout before, I would strongly advise that you build a small inglenook layout about 4 or 5 ft long and about a foot wide. Possibly with a small extension of a couple of foot for a fiddle yard. Hopefully this will be small enough to store under your bed at home, this will hopefully hone your modelling skills, give you something to play with and give you a better idea of what you want and what you can actually manage to achieve.

 

Come back when you think you have done it.

[Ed Winterbury]

Yes, a 4' by 2' board is on its way. By the way, I'm in the Cakebox Challenge (yet to enter)

[Siberian Snooper]

Yes, a 4' by 2' board is on its way. By the way, I'm in the Cakebox Challenge (yet to enter)

I look forward to seeing some progress on it, please keep us posted.

[Ed Winterbury]

Sure! I started the Cakebox Challenge layout yesterday (Sunday) with the Scale Model Scenery Small Diorama Baseboard, a second-hand BR 01/02/03/04/05/06/07 shunter and a single 7-plank wagon. I've built up the weighbridge from RM and also placed a resin garden shed. For this exercise, only the best will do so I purchased a yard of Peco Code 75 Bullhead Rail (a personal first). Again, I've opted for the most expensive scatter and ballast, for added realism. So that's my cakebox: a shunter, wagon and some structures.

[Ed Winterbury]

The 4'x2' board's layout has been designed, here it is: . Please feel free to suggest improvements.

To this, I would add some buildings.

[Pacific231G]

The 4'x2' board's layout has been designed, here it is: Plan with Jimmy.png. Please feel free to suggest improvements.

To this, I would add some buildings.

Looking at your track plan you're only using about half the two foot width for it and that's about what I'd expect for a small shunting layout.

 

I'd suggest cutting your 4x2 board down to 18inch width. My own experience is that, though it's about the maximum size for an easily transportable baseboard  a 4x2 board is still a bit unwieldy for a complete layout. It's too wide to store on shelves and in most cupboads, a bit of a lump for one person to carry and the extra width adds little or nothing in terms of track or scenery. OTOH there have been any number of good shunting layout built on 4x1 baseboards. 

 

Because timber sheet has always and still is largely based on a 4ft x 8ft standard,  layout sizes have always tended to be based on that in at least one dimension hence the prevalence of solid 6x4 layouts in Britain- about as portable as a double bed isn't- some years ago, 8ft by 4ft layouts still in North America and an awful lot of small layouts in Europe that are 1.2m long.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Ed Winterbury]

Well, the board is on its way, so I can't change it.

[Siberian Snooper]

Well, the board is on its way, so I can't change it.

Don't you possess a saw?

[Ed Winterbury]

No, I do not possess a piece of metal with sharp teeth known as a saw.

And I would destroy the underframe.

[LNER4479]

For what it's worth, thought the enclosed pictures might be of interest, not least because the layout featured ticks so many of your boxes (see below). This is my Dad's current layout which has gradually been built up over the last 10 years. All track is Peco streamline, Code 75 in the scenic sections.

 

The trick to this apparent illusion is levels. The terminus station is on an upper level with a gradient connecting it and the mainline. Length of gradient has not caused any real problems with 6 coach trains and 15 wagon freights although a judicious amount of 'rostering' in terms of knowing what your more powerful locos are is helpful.

 

Sorry not a trackplan as such but hopefully you can get an idea from the photos. The terminus station is laid out along one of the longer axes with the MPD to the left as the trains curve round 180deg and descend the gradient along the other long side. Through station is along this side, on the continuous run, with dead end fiddle yard roads also on this side, on the other side of the incline. The village scene largely covers the fiddle yard and the gradient.

 

Might not be exactly what you're after but shows what is possible in the sort of space you're talking about.

 

 

So here is a list of desires, copying the 'template' Pacific 231G offered up

 

I'd quite like to run 15 wagon trains, although this is easily compromisable. Yes

 

I'd like a four platform mainline terminus handling real-length trains but the minimus would be 5 coaches and 3 platforms. 6 platforms; longest can accommodate 6 coaches

 

A fiddle yard is not required if I have enough on-scene storage space. This layout has a fiddle yard

 

I'd like a three or four line through station (similar to present day Kensington Olympia) handling real-length trains. Two platform through station. Could be expanded if the fiddle yard was done away with

 

I enjoy settlements so I must have room for a townscape (two or 3 streets are fine) and some limited landscaping. Twee village scene above fiddle yard. Could be a townscape instead

 

I must have a motive power depot to house my locomotives. A turntable is ideal but can be compromised if there's a facility to turn trains round. Terminus station includes loco depot alongside end wall. Can stable at least 16 locos

 

I want a goods yard with three sidings or more. 5 siding goods yard with separate reception road

 

I definitely want a continuous run to just watch the trains go by but this can be one-track with a loop. I want to avoid any duck-unders. Continuous run. Has an easily removed lift-out flap

 

Shunting is desirable, but as with the real thing will accommodate mainline services. Ideally, there will be an MPD/Carriage Sidings so that I can do some shunting. Two carriage sidings alongside station. Plenty of shunting goes on!

 

It is unlikely that it can be any longer than 15' or any wider than 8'. Footprint approx. 13' x 8'

All my issues and desires are listed there.

Although I may think of more.

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by LNER4479

[Ed Winterbury]

Oh, WOW!

[Siberian Snooper]

No, I do not possess a piece of metal with sharp teeth known as a saw.

And I would destroy the underframe.

So you don't have a saw, do you possess any basic wood butchery tools, drill, screwdriver,chisels. hammer, I don't know how your going to get on when it comes to do some actual modelling.

[Ed Winterbury]

I don't possess it in my normal (London) home, which is where the board will be delivered to.

And I would wreck the board, not to mention forfeiting the warranty. I do, however, possess a soldering iron.

[Andrew P]

Ed, Just back from holiday, and I saw you asked for a Track Plan of my Kings Moreton / Much Dithering Layout, so here it is, it occupies an area of 17.5ft x 8.5 ft.

[Ed Winterbury]

Thanks