Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge

[Charlie586]

I take the Jack Duckworth approach and use tape on my glasses when they break. 

 

Little bit of good news

 

 

Found a tiny screw in the 'stuff' box and put the gearbox in the hawthorn. I had to ream the coupling rods a bit but seems to run okay (despite me pulling the leading wheels off the track while sorting the cable out)

 

I've ordered some screws off ebay, £1.72 for 12 and will build the other gearbox for the rover. 

[Charlie586]

Back to the carriageworks and the u20 I've been tinkering with the past few weeks 

 

 

I epoxyied the two halves together, they're still a bit flexible in this state so I pinned them to a bit of wood with drill bits to try to hold straight while it set.

 

 

It didn't quite set square so I tried again and used laccy bands

 

 

Still not quite right on the lower part of the door, so

 

 

Redid it again. Also used the leftover epoxy to give Mavis a longer dress as she was showing an indecent amount of ankle. 

 

 

Was a lot better so reprimed. I also tried to smooth the tumble home. Still not perfect, once it's on the chassis it might not be noticeable but I might have to have another little go at the lower join or else it will annoy me.

 

 

 

 

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Charlie586 said:

Back to the carriageworks and the u20 I've been tinkering with the past few weeks 

 

 

I epoxyied the two halves together, they're still a bit flexible in this state so I pinned them to a bit of wood with drill bits to try to hold straight while it set.

 

 

It didn't quite set square so I tried again and used laccy bands

 

 

Still not quite right on the lower part of the door, so

 

 

Redid it again. Also used the leftover epoxy to give Mavis a longer dress as she was showing an indecent amount of ankle. 

 

 

Was a lot better so reprimed. I also tried to smooth the tumble home. Still not perfect, once it's on the chassis it might not be noticeable but I might have to have another little go at the lower join or else it will annoy me.

 

 

 

 

 

Charlie,

It seems to have worked in the end. 

 

If I have a butting joint I try and brace it behind the joint as I am gluing it, not that it always works, and then put a reinforcing strip behind when it is finished, not that you can really do that on the coach but the floor, chassis and roof should do that quite well.

 

I am glad Mavis has got a proper length skirt; these young people just do not know how to dress properly.  

[Charlie586]

9 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Charlie,

It seems to have worked in the end. 

 

If I have a butting joint I try and brace it behind the joint as I am gluing it, not that it always works, and then put a reinforcing strip behind when it is finished, not that you can really do that on the coach but the floor, chassis and roof should do that quite well.

 

I am glad Mavis has got a proper length skirt; these young people just do not know how to dress properly.  

Thanks Chris

The exposed middle pieces try to curl inwards,  I should have put temporary bracing pieces in the 3d.

I'm hoping the next one will be easier as I'll probably over brace it to avoid doing it multiple times. I'll put reinforcing strips at top and bottom of this, hopefully they won't be seen through the window. 

Mavis needs a hat as well before she can venture out, but she'll have to wait until I next get the filler out.

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Charlie586 said:

Thanks Chris

The exposed middle pieces try to curl inwards,  I should have put temporary bracing pieces in the 3d.

I'm hoping the next one will be easier as I'll probably over brace it to avoid doing it multiple times. I'll put reinforcing strips at top and bottom of this, hopefully they won't be seen through the window. 

Mavis needs a hat as well before she can venture out, but she'll have to wait until I next get the filler out.

 

Charlie,

Hats.  I have tried, and some of my attempts were seen with the doctors daughter.  I try and roll Milliput flat and then pressit out with a tube from a paint brush, leaving a bump in the middle and a rim.  Fiddley work.  

[Charlie586]

4 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Charlie,

Hats.  I have tried, and some of my attempts were seen with the doctors daughter.  I try and roll Milliput flat and then pressit out with a tube from a paint brush, leaving a bump in the middle and a rim.  Fiddley work.  

Thanks I will try that. I did have a little play the last time I made up too much miliput but it wasn't a great success. The heads are probably nearer 7mm than 4

 

[Charlie586]

Anyway, moving swiftly on.

 

 

This is the other side of the bridge,  towards London if you like, don't think I've posted a picture of this yet. Obviously it's from a much later period, after 1915 but before 1935 I think. I don't know the exact size of the goods shed, haven't stumbled across a drawing but I have a few photos so should be able to get a reasonable likeness, but I've no pictures of the Eastern side 

 

Baseboard 2 should take me about halfway through the goods shed. Baseboard 3 will be the one after that has a quite fiddly set of turnouts, seen through the goods shed. Obviously I'll need to add the broad gauge lines which should complicate things further  and also the standard gauge from the up line also needs to cross sides.

Before any of that though, I need to see what will go around what radius, because this affects how long the turnouts will be. Back in the day it was horse shunted, and I assume if anything needed adding to a train that was also horse shunted. It would be a bit more interesting if I can get an engine to actually do more than go straight.

I've cut out some bits to be able to make a test board hopefully over the weekend, start with a 1:6 curve. Nearly finished putting the new motor and gearbox on the rover, hopefully get to test that at weekend too.

[Northroader]

Charlie, the broad gauge evolved a range of goods sheds, which were very similar right through from the Thames valley, to West Wales, Cornwall, or Weymouth. There was a range of sizes and building materials. The road vehicles and rail vehicles entered through the end walls, parallel to each other, either side of a central platform with swing jib cranes being braced into the structure. At the eastern end, like here, brick was the commonest building material, further west you’d get limestone or wood boarding. Being fairly early on in development, the end wall has the Early English (adopted by Brunel) archway over the end doors, and most likely the side windows, which wouldn’t be grouped like in the sketch. Later on further west the end doors had wooden planked arches, which would be a cheaper construction. About the last survivor is at Southall, just east of the station on the North side, opposite the preserved steam shed. If you see photos of this, it might help with Wantage, but for the life of me, I can’t remember if it’s still there, or demolished fairly recently (it’s in private use) Looking at the side shadow in your picture, I would think it’s the smaller of the two versions in the sketches, (for timber side walls, rather than brick) which would take three wagon lengths.

[Nick Gough]

Charlie

 

I believe that photo dates from the beginning of the quadrupling works.

 

That's part of the replacement 1932 signal box on the left, set back from the running lines to allow for the two new tracks. I think this photo is a more closely cropped version of the one in 'Heart of the Great Western' that also shows the whole end of the goods shed and the previous signal box, nearer to the road bridge.

 

You could get the size of the goods shed using the measurement tool on the 25 inch OS map on the NLS maps website.

[Annie]

I have a drawing for a timber goods shed similar to the one at Aldermaston.  The drawing is a bit fragile, but I may be able to scan it for you.  It might at least give you a sense of the size and proportion of this style of goods shed.

[Charlie586]

8 hours ago, Northroader said:

Charlie, the broad gauge evolved a range of goods sheds, which were very similar right through from the Thames valley, to West Wales, Cornwall, or Weymouth. There was a range of sizes and building materials. The road vehicles and rail vehicles entered through the end walls, parallel to each other, either side of a central platform with swing jib cranes being braced into the structure. At the eastern end, like here, brick was the commonest building material, further west you’d get limestone or wood boarding. Being fairly early on in development, the end wall has the Early English (adopted by Brunel) archway over the end doors, and most likely the side windows, which wouldn’t be grouped like in the sketch. Later on further west the end doors had wooden planked arches, which would be a cheaper construction. About the last survivor is at Southall, just east of the station on the North side, opposite the preserved steam shed. If you see photos of this, it might help with Wantage, but for the life of me, I can’t remember if it’s still there, or demolished fairly recently (it’s in private use) Looking at the side shadow in your picture, I would think it’s the smaller of the two versions in the sketches, (for timber side walls, rather than brick) which would take three wagon lengths.

Thank you, that is very helpful. I'll look for Southall. I guess the number of roof trusses will help give the actual size. There is a photo of the wantage one, the back side (looking north from the yard) in the letters page of one of the brj's. I'll try to dig it out though I don't think it's that high quality. 

[Charlie586]

8 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Charlie

 

I believe that photo dates from the beginning of the quadrupling works.

 

That's part of the replacement 1932 signal box on the left, set back from the running lines to allow for the two new tracks. I think this photo is a more closely cropped version of the one in 'Heart of the Great Western' that also shows the whole end of the goods shed and the previous signal box, nearer to the road bridge.

 

You could get the size of the goods shed using the measurement tool on the 25 inch OS map on the NLS maps website.

Thanks Nick, I think it is that photo. It's about the best one looking east,  even though it's 50 years after the time I'm doing.

When I worked out the original track plan I used an os map as a template in the CAD program. I think it came out about 100ft, does that sound in the right area compared to yours? 

[Charlie586]

8 hours ago, Annie said:

I have a drawing for a timber goods shed similar to the one at Aldermaston.  The drawing is a bit fragile, but I may be able to scan it for you.  It might at least give you a sense of the size and proportion of this style of goods shed.

Any help is useful, Annie,  but please don't risk damaging the drawing if it's fragile. 

[Nick Gough]

20 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

Thanks Nick, I think it is that photo. It's about the best one looking east,  even though it's 50 years after the time I'm doing.

When I worked out the original track plan I used an os map as a template in the CAD program. I think it came out about 100ft, does that sound in the right area compared to yours? 

 

I can confirm it's the same photo. The man in the foreground is acting as lookout for a group of workers on the other side of the running lines.

 

Interestingly the full photo shows that, unlike most Brunel sheds, there is no road entrance at this end of the shed. To the right of the van is the lean-to office and to the right of that is a short flight of steps leading to a pedestrian door into the main shed.

 

The photo in BRJ may be the same as one in 'Railways through the Vale of the White Horse'.

In that photo I can see a large arched doorway in the centre of the south side of the shed, i.e. facing Wantage town.

 

I've had a go at measuring the shed on the map on the NLS site and I make it approximately 63' long by 37' wide.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Charlie586 said:

Any help is useful, Annie,  but please don't risk damaging the drawing if it's fragile. 

It will be a good opportunity for me to try out my new scanner and so long as I'm careful I think I'll be fine.

While it's a drawing of a timber goods shed it has good details of the internal cranes, roof trusses & etc.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Annie
More information

[Charlie586]

7 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

 

I can confirm it's the same photo. The man in the foreground is acting as lookout for a group of workers on the other side of the running lines.

 

Interestingly the full photo shows that, unlike most Brunel sheds, there is no road entrance at this end of the shed. To the right of the van is the lean-to office and to the right of that is a short flight of steps leading to a pedestrian door into the main shed.

 

The photo in BRJ may be the same as one in 'Railways through the Vale of the White Horse'.

In that photo I can see a large arched doorway in the centre of the south side of the shed, i.e. facing Wantage town.

 

I've had a go at measuring the shed on the map on the NLS site and I make it approximately 63' long by 37' wide.

Thank you, Nick.

The same photo is in the DeCourtais tramway book along with one taken in the other direction, plus one of a fraction of the Eastern end of the goods shed. There's also a photo of the back of the shed taken from a similar angle to the one I've got but is earlier, I think this is the other one you have. There's a car to the left of the shed in the later photo I have, I would guess this is early 1960's, no difference in the shed to previous photo. What I don't know is if there's a road entrance to the Eastern end or just the one around the back, I'm guessing there isn't due to line that would run across it.

Thanks for measuring it, did that include the office on the end. As space is very tight for me, I'm happy to go with 63'.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Charlie586
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[Nick Gough]

It might be a different 'back of shed' photo in my book. It's described as 1950s and there's no car in view.

 

The length of 63' is for the main shed only, with the office projecting another 11' from the Bristol end.

I make the office width to be 10' with its north wall 14' from the northwest corner of the main shed (across the rail entrance). 

 

These are the only features that it is possible to measure from the map though, I think it's fair to say, that 100% accuracy from an OS map can't be guaranteed plus, as you zoom in, the drawn lines get thicker.

[Northroader]

 The 63’ dimension would give you three wagons comfortably. Thinking a bit more, the goods sheds on the West Somerset Line have survived, and are to the same design, but built from sandstone rather than brick, Bishops Lydeard (which has been “got at”), Williton, and Watchet, (probably the best example)

[Charlie586]

1 hour ago, Nick Gough said:

It might be a different 'back of shed' photo in my book. It's described as 1950s and there's no car in view.

 

The length of 63' is for the main shed only, with the office projecting another 11' from the Bristol end.

I make the office width to be 10' with its north wall 14' from the northwest corner of the main shed (across the rail entrance). 

 

These are the only features that it is possible to measure from the map though, I think it's fair to say, that 100% accuracy from an OS map can't be guaranteed plus, as you zoom in, the drawn lines get thicker.

 

Thanks, this is very helpful. The os ones I looked at had a survey date then various updates, which as you say can't be guaranteed. Hopefully I can find a design of 63ft and adjust for the door being around the back instead of sides. 

 

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

 The 63’ dimension would give you three wagons comfortably. Thinking a bit more, the goods sheds on the West Somerset Line have survived, and are to the same design, but built from sandstone rather than brick, Bishops Lydeard (which has been “got at”), Williton, and Watchet, (probably the best example)

Again, thanks. I'm off to Google. 

[Nick Gough]

5 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

What I don't know is if there's a road entrance to the Eastern end or just the one around the back, I'm guessing there isn't due to line that would run across it.

 

 

I agree. 

[Nick Gough]

Here's a photo I've not seen before:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/trains-travel/32708757727/

[MrWolf]

Although I cannot shed any further light on the actual arrangements at Wantage Road, something struck me about not having an entrance at both ends of the shed.

Sheds where the road entrance was at ninety degrees to the rails were generally enough to back up one or two carts (side by side) to the loading dock. 

If the cart road runs parallel to the loading dock and rails and is of sufficient length to take three wagons, you then have the problem of getting the carts back out. It's not an easy or quick operation to reverse a cart and pair back sixty or more feet, even if there isn't two more carts behind you. Although they can turn tightly, I doubt that there would be room inside the shed to do this. 

It would be far more practical to exit through a door in the far end and make an immediate turn away from the rails and back along the outside of the shed.

This is also why old aircraft hangers were popular as distribution hubs for road traffic.

 

Just my 2 cents worth!  

[Charlie586]

10 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Here's a photo I've not seen before:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/trains-travel/32708757727/

Thanks.  Looks like the Eastern arch has been removed and replaced with a girder at some point 

[Charlie586]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Although I cannot shed any further light on the actual arrangements at Wantage Road, something struck me about not having an entrance at both ends of the shed.

Sheds where the road entrance was at ninety degrees to the rails were generally enough to back up one or two carts (side by side) to the loading dock. 

If the cart road runs parallel to the loading dock and rails and is of sufficient length to take three wagons, you then have the problem of getting the carts back out. It's not an easy or quick operation to reverse a cart and pair back sixty or more feet, even if there isn't two more carts behind you. Although they can turn tightly, I doubt that there would be room inside the shed to do this. 

It would be far more practical to exit through a door in the far end and make an immediate turn away from the rails and back along the outside of the shed.

This is also why old aircraft hangers were popular as distribution hubs for road traffic.

 

Just my 2 cents worth!  

Thanks. I completely agree, backing a cart up would be a bit of a faff. I don't understand why there's no door on the Swindon side as there's nothing else there to get in the way.

My little bit of googling came up with 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/layoutsholmehurst1.html

With the platform nearer the rear door there would be less backing up, still unnecessary hassle though. 

Ashburton looks fairly similar in size and style (but has enclosed front) and only has a rear door. 

I haven't come across any yet that have a back door and side door, but I'm still looking.

[Charlie586]

There's a plan in the Pearce Higgins book, heavily cropped 

 

 

Shows what I reckon is another office at the London end.

 

 

Very cropped back of the shed from the late photo. There's something visible, possibly steps?