LNWR Staff Uniform Colour(s) GREEN

[Regularity]

Myself I feel that they should be hung from the nearest lamp post

Whilst I don’t feel that way about people who say “train station” (the use of incorrect language on their part simply reveals them to be lesser mortals lacking an appreciation of the Important Things in life) as it is at least unambiguous, I will admit to strong feelings about the incorrect use of “hung” (what you do to meat, or your own neat in front of the two veg, or a picture on the wall), when hanged is the correct and only term, as anyone living in the pre-grouping era would be familiar with... (And you can end a sentence with a preposition, just as I began one with a conjunction .)

[eastglosmog]

According to the Oxford Companion  to British Railway History,says that in the 1840s red or green were common, but by the 1900s, for passenger guards,  blue was standard.  The LNWR, however, retained green double breasted frock coats and caps for many years.  Not specific about what colour other grades might have worn, although ticket collectors are said to have had similar uniform to a guard.  (The wording of the article is a bit vague, but the LSWR guards may also have had green uniforms.)

The LSWR and some other railways (unspecified) issued red neckties for use as danger signals in emergency - better than Bobbie using her pettycoat, I suppose!

[Compound2632]

According to the Oxford Companion  to British Railway History,says that in the 1840s red or green were common, but by the 1900s, for passenger guards,  blue was standard.  The LNWR, however, retained green double breasted frock coats and caps for many years.  Not specific about what colour other grades might have worn, although ticket collectors are said to have had similar uniform to a guard.  (The wording of the article is a bit vague, but the LSWR guards may also have had green uniforms.)

The LSWR and some other railways (unspecified) issued red neckties for use as danger signals in emergency - better than Bobbie using her pettycoat, I suppose!

 

The article "uniforms" cites the D.J. Froggatt book mentioned by Penlan in his opening post, so I don't think this can be taken as independent evidence.

[Trog]

Whilst I don’t feel that way about people who say “train station” (the use of incorrect language on their part simply reveals them to be lesser mortals lacking an appreciation of the Important Things in life) as it is at least unambiguous, I will admit to strong feelings about the incorrect use of “hung” (what you do to meat, or your own neat in front of the two veg, or a picture on the wall), when hanged is the correct and only term, as anyone living in the pre-grouping era would be familiar with... (And you can end a sentence with a preposition, just as I began one with a conjunction .)

Does the fact that rather strangely given your comment, my first thought was to use a meat hook (Italian style) rather than a rope alter which H word I should have used?

[Edwardian]

 

 

Maybe "rebuked" would be better to avoid a visit from the NSPCC?

 

Well, you see, "chastise" can mean merely a strong verbal reprimand. I certainly was not suggesting physical violence.

 

On the whole though, I have decided that "chiding" them is closer to the mark, and, further, "chide" is a cruelly underused word, so I shall chide people at every opportunity from now on.

 

Amyway, the Stockton and Darlington staff wore red coats, right up until amalgamation in the 1860s.

[eastglosmog]

The article "uniforms" cites the D.J. Froggatt book mentioned by Penlan in his opening post, so I don't think this can be taken as independent evidence.

Indeed it does.  It also refers to J MacKay, Railway Antiques.  The article was written by Dr Edwin Course (Director of Railway and Canal Historical Society) and a reputed Industrial Historian, so is probably correct in what it says.

[Compound2632]

Well, you see, "chastise" can mean merely a strong verbal reprimand. I certainly was not suggesting physical violence.

 

On the whole though, I have decided that "chiding" them is closer to the mark, and, further, "chide" is a cruelly underused word, so I shall chide people at every opportunity from now on.

 

Consider me suitably chidden.

[Hroth]

Whilst I don’t feel that way about people who say “train station” (the use of incorrect language on their part simply reveals them to be lesser mortals lacking an appreciation of the Important Things in life) as it is at least unambiguous, I will admit to strong feelings about the incorrect use of “hung” (what you do to meat, or your own neat in front of the two veg, or a picture on the wall), when hanged is the correct and only term, as anyone living in the pre-grouping era would be familiar with... (And you can end a sentence with a preposition, just as I began one with a conjunction .)

As any folk singer worth their salt might sing "A hangeddd I shall be, from the topmost bar ot Tyburn Tree...."

 

I might have just made that up, though it has the ring of folkish veracity!

[Regularity]

I might have just made that up, though it has the ring of folkish veracity!

Is folkish veracity not the same as “I might have just made that up”?

[LBRJ]

I am not sure that the use of green for uniforms would be from following Army practice - Most of the mid Victorian army worse red - Unless they were Sharpe's regiment; they did wear green

[Hroth]

I am not sure that the use of green for uniforms would be from following Army practice - Most of the mid Victorian army worse red - Unless they were Sharpe's regiment; they did wear green

The first General Manager of the LNWR was (Captain) Mark Huish, but as his captaincy was in the army of the East India Company, I would have thought any colour preference would be towards red, rather than the green of the Rifles.

 

It could be that green was chosen because of the tight financial controls imposed on the LNWR by Sir Richard Moon, and they got a good deal on uniform coats in green.

[Compound2632]

I am not sure that the use of green for uniforms would be from following Army practice - Most of the mid Victorian army worse red - Unless they were Sharpe's regiment; they did wear green

 

Well that was my point - why green, given their army (red) or navy (blue) backgrounds?

 

Rear Admiral of the Blue Constantine Richard Moorsom, a director of the London & Birmingham, 1837 - 1839, later Chairman of the LNWR, 1852 - 1861.

Captain Mark Huish (Indian Army), Secretary to the Grand Junction Railway from 1841, General Manager of the LNWR until 1859.

 

Any others?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Well that was my point - why green, given their army (red) or navy (blue) backgrounds?

 

Rear Admiral of the Blue Constantine Richard Moorsom, a director of the London & Birmingham, 1837 - 1839, later Chairman of the LNWR, 1852 - 1861.

Captain Mark Huish (Indian Army), Secretary to the Grand Junction Railway from 1841, General Manager of the LNWR until 1859.

 

Any others?

Anyone from the Rifle Brigade?

 

Edit; note to self, keep up with the thread

Edited October 13, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[BG John]

Maybe they weren't expecting there to be much need for a uniform that hid blood stains!

[Compound2632]

The first General Manager of the LNWR was (Captain) Mark Huish, but as his captaincy was in the army of the East India Company, I would have thought any colour preference would be towards red, rather than the green of the Rifles.

 

It could be that green was chosen because of the tight financial controls imposed on the LNWR by Sir Richard Moon, and they got a good deal on uniform coats in green.

 

Posts crossed! Moon was Chair in succession to Admiral Moorsom. Born in 1815, I doubt he was involved in the very early days of the L&B, GJR, or L&M - and I strongly suspect that uniform colours, like many other aspects of LNWR practice, go back to the very early days.

[Edwardian]

that ... many other aspects of LNWR practice, go back to the very early days.

 

Are we back to chain brakes again!

[Edwardian]

Maybe they weren't expecting there to be much need for a uniform that hid blood stains!

 

Tell that to William Huskisson!

[sp1]

Tell that to William Huskisson!

He’s a distant cousin of mine - his family were from just outside Wolverhampton

[Compound2632]

Are we back to chain brakes again!

 

Oh no, the Clark & Webb chain brake was a modern innovation, dating from the 1870s I believe - definitely Moon parsimony at root.

[Compound2632]

He’s a distant cousin of mine - his family were from just outside Wolverhampton

 

A typical family dwelling on the outskirts of Wolverhampton (i.e. Malvern)!

[Edwardian]

Oh no, the Clark & Webb chain brake was a modern innovation, dating from the 1870s I believe - definitely Moon parsimony at root.

 

Sorry, I was fooled by the system's archaic abilities!

[Trog]

I wonder if it was green like the rifles as they were the modern cutting edge and future of the army, trained to use their intuitive and using up to date kit. If you thought of the railway as the future with high grade staff and modern cutting edge technology. You might consider the rifles as being the army equivalent of the workforce you were trying to create and think yes green uniforms will do nicely. Or if other railways had already gone for blue and red wanting to be distinctive could also push you towards green.

[Edwardian]

I suspect that, by now, we have put more thought into the LNWR's choice of uniform colours than it did!

[sp1]

A typical family dwelling on the outskirts of Wolverhampton (i.e. Malvern)!

His family were from Bushbury:

http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/articles/bushbury/18thcent.htm

[BG John]

Tell that to William Huskisson!

I'm sure there was much blood on that occasion, but I think the percentage of dead and injured on the railways has always been a tiny fraction of that on the battlefield, even before the days of Health & Safety!