I am very cross

[jjb1970]

After being shafted by a jumper at Harrow on Wednesday night and getting home three hours late the WCML is in chaos again. Foolishly I followed the guidance offered at Euston to use the MML to Luton Parkway where replacement buses had been provided. I've now been waiting at Parkway for a bus for over half an hour and nobody here has a clue. A helpful Thameslink guy just told me the last replacement bus was about 4 hours ago and to go to the airport and take the 99 or national express from there to MK. OK I don't blame the railway for jumpers and exceptional circumstances but directing people to Luton for a non-existent replacement bus is *****g ridiculous. I am very cross.

[jjb1970]

I usually defend LM and I will no doubt have a more sanguine view of it all tomorrow but I have to say that just now I am not feeling much positivity about rail travel.

[APOLLO]

Just back from a day out in Liverpool

 

Trains up the creek on WCML around Wigan & Liverpool also throughout today, though the service between the two was OK. Queues miles long at Lime Street for London trains. Seemed to be conflicting info everywhere and lots of frustrated passengers.

 

The automated announcements this morning at Wigan made no sense at all in relation to services, which were all over the place re the timetable. It's not that the platform staff don't care - they just don't know. Therefore the problem re instant information lies higher up the food chain. Inexcusable in today's world of instant communication.

 

Brit15

[Bernard Lamb]

I went for a walk around Wandsworth Common today.

The group leader checked the Southern service from Hemel. All seemed fine for a change and the 09.43 was bang on time.

After a walk and lunch it was back to (lack of) service as usual. The first two trains were cancelled due to lack of drivers.

No problem Take the next train to Clapham Junction, change to the Overground and round to the WCML and home via H & W.

No London Midland services running, so took the Overground to Watford. Got of at High Street and walked up to Market Street to get the 500 bus home. 

The world and his wife seemed to be congregating at junction 20 on the M25.

Arrived home dead on 18.00 with SWMBO expecting me at 15.50.

Not amused. I do not think I will venture south of the river again for a long while.

Bernard

[Simon Lee]

After being shafted by a jumper at Harrow on Wednesday night and getting home three hours late the WCML is in chaos again.

 

Perhaps you might like to consider what sort of place the "jumper" who shafted you was in mentally to carry out such an act. ?

 

May be you should be greatfull that the police never come knocking at your door to deliver the news that a relative has felt so desperate as to take their own life by what ever means.

 

That jumper was someone's son / daughter / father / mother / husband / wife.

 

During my 40 + years on the railway, I've dealt with enough body parts and distressed drivers and other staff to know the real cost of loss of life in these circumstances.

 

Just be greatfull your still alive to write this rant      

 

 

[brianusa]

There's more than one way to end ones life if that is the wanted end result.  None of them very tempting but that someone's son / daughter / father / mother / husband / wife could have considered the consequences of their last action and the impact it had on others who are still content to live a normal lifespan.

 

Brian.

[Ozexpatriate]

... someone's son / daughter / father / mother / husband / wife could have considered the consequences of their last action and the impact it had on others who are still content to live a normal lifespan.

Brian, sadly when people come to that decision, thoughtfulness for others is probably the last thing on their minds.

[jjb1970]

 

After being shafted by a jumper at Harrow on Wednesday night and getting home three hours late the WCML is in chaos again.

 

Perhaps you might like to consider what sort of place the "jumper" who shafted you was in mentally to carry out such an act. ?

 

May be you should be greatfull that the police never come knocking at your door to deliver the news that a relative has felt so desperate as to take their own life by what ever means.

 

That jumper was someone's son / daughter / father / mother / husband / wife.

 

During my 40 + years on the railway, I've dealt with enough body parts and distressed drivers and other staff to know the real cost of loss of life in these circumstances.

 

Just be greatfull your still alive to write this rant

 

On reflection (and having finally got home) I accept it was an unfortunate word to use, used in the heat of feeling extremely fed up and I apologise for any offence caused.

[jjb1970]

In fairness tonight, none of the people I witnessed waiting around for non existent buses at Luton were getting stroppy towards front line staff and most people were appreciative of the fact that the staff at Luton have nothing to do with LM or Virgin and that they were doing what they could to help.

[jjb1970]

Something that poured petrol on the fire in terms of anger management towards LM/Virgin was that people witnessed one Thameslink supervisor or manager make several attempts to talk to somebody to chase up what they were doing and was clearly just being passed around getting nowhere. If anything, his comments about it all were choicer than those of passengers, however I suspect one reason things were remarkably calm was the fact that he was visible and seen to be trying to do something.

[alastairq]

 

 

Sadly, it's not an exception passengers behave rudely or selfishly inconsiderate when an accident like this occurs. Sign of the times, regrettably. 

 We are totally intolerant of what was considered 'the norm' decades ago....yet fail to see how intolerable are the actions of many, which are considered the 'norm' today?

 

Folk will never learn, and we will never have the 'perfect' society...

[Liam]

I've had a hectic journey as well today. We've got a holiday cottage in Dumfriesshire that we go to periodically, and today I was returning to the West Midlands from it. As we left in a hurry I was dropped off at Carlisle where soon after the Pendolino came in. The journey was fine until Lancaster, where we were delayed for at least 20 minutes due to this fatality. The WCML can have ripple effects on events like these that reverberate the 200 or so miles from Milton Keynes to Lancaster. Soon though we trundled down to Preston, but here we waited for 45 minutes without much information. Then the journey was fine until Crewe, where the guard said we were waiting for a driver, but about 10 minutes later the service was terminated at Crewe.

 

The Pendolino arrived and terminated on platform 9 at Crewe. The guard told us that the next train to Birmingham was from platform 5 which when I descended the stairs from the overbridge turned out to be . . . a LM 350. Nice though they are, but not long enough to accommodate most of the passengers of a Pendolino. So I had to catch a later train to Birmingham, and arrival at my final destination was nearly two hours later than expected.

 

Despite all this, I must praise all the staff on board the trains and the platform staff at Crewe for how they dealt with a very stressful situation, and having lots of rather angry passengers constantly on you is hard work.

[APOLLO]

I'm afraid I disagree. The current world of instant gratification "because we expect it" also makes for exactly those tales as described by the OP: misinformation. Not deliberately, but because people simply don't know better. The instant an incident occurs, people demand to know how they can avoid it, as if it never happened. Regrettably I have experience with this behaviour, which can be on the brink, and too often over, rudeness by these people, as most all working in public transport will confirm. It's often best to take some time and investigate what's happening and then decide what scenario needs to be executed then jumping around misinforming people.

 

Tell you a story I heard: a train gets a 'one-under' and the guard was send out to investigate. While he was walking back, he was rudely addressed by a middle-aged male passenger in suit who demanded the train should carry on. He was ignored by the guard. During the whole incident, the guard passed this bloke several times, every time being addressed by said bloke in a rude manner. Until the guard had enough, took this bloke by the arm and brought him to the scene of the accident. (mind, this is not normally done, but circumstances required a clear lesson to this bloke ) Said bloke was then informed the pieces he saw scattered around used to be a person, which the driver had seen disintegrate in front of him, not even 8 ft away. He puked (the bloke, not the driver btw!)  It was a very quiet suit for the rest of the journey...  Sadly, it's not an exception passengers behave rudely or selfishly inconsiderate when an accident like this occurs. Sign of the times, regrettably.

 

I disagree. this was Wigan this morning at 10.50 am. All trains were late, including Manchester airport to Edinburgh, no connection whatsoever with what was happening 150 miles up the line. Lack of information in an age of "instant" information. Trains were running late and out of path. announcements were wrong / out of sync. I.m not bothered WHY trains were late, I just want to know WHEN my train is due. WHERE the next train to arrive is going to etc. Quite simple, but all to cock this morning unfortunately. Platform staff did there best though.

 

People have paid through there noses for tickets & travel, they at least need reliable information when things go pear shaped. Its called crisis management, use of resources and forward incident planning.

 

Brit15.

[phil-b259]

I disagree. this was Wigan this morning at 10.50 am. All trains were late, including Manchester airport to Edinburgh, no connection whatsoever with what was happening 150 miles up the line.

 

 

Please tell me which line those Manchester to Edinburgh trains travel on - because last time I looked it was the WCML. With the WCML service plan well and truly wrecked by the incident in London I would have thought it pretty obvious that EVERYTHING that has to share the WCML with Virgin was going to be affected to some degree - regardless of how 'far away' you are from London (remembering that Manchester airport services mix it with Virgin on the approaches to Manchester Piccadilly, not just at Preston etc.)

[beast66606]

I disagree. this was Wigan this morning at 10.50 am. All trains were late, including Manchester airport to Edinburgh, no connection whatsoever with what was happening 150 miles up the line.

 

1S46, 10:00, Airport - EH was 7 late at Wigan, 6 on arrival but lost a minute at Wigan due to a 2 minute stop when only 1 minute booked, it lost 3 of the 6 minutes at Slade Lane Jct waiting for a Man Picc - Crewe to cross over by the looks.

[The Stationmaster]

Brian, sadly when people come to that decision, thoughtfulness for others is probably the last thing on their minds.

 

I have always looked on them as people who lose any sort of normal grip on reason because they become so single-minded about what they are intending to do.  Having had to pick up the remains I'm quite sure that anyone who knows what might happen to them if they are hit by a train travelling at speed would give the matter some second thoughts - but I've yet to come across any who changed their mind on that basis.

 

But there is no doubt that they, and the results of their decision, can be a considerable inconvenience to a large number of people and can have a severe mental  impact on a Driver if he/she happens to see them getting themselves deliberately in front of their train.  Difficult for a Driver in such circumstances. potentially even threatening their livelihood, hence a very selfish action on the part of the individual taking their own life but there is little the railway can do beyond miles of security fencing to stop it happening and even then with the best will in the world a determined suicide will still get onto the line somewhere if they have chosen that particular route to ending their life.

[caradoc]

Please bear in mind that when rail services are replaced, for whatever reason, by  buses, those buses, and their Drivers, are not provided/employed by the relevant Train Operator which therefore has no direct control over their operation. It has also been pointed out before, in topics on a similar theme to this one, that there are simply not fleets of buses and Drivers standing by, all over the country, waiting for a call from a rail operator.

 

I have dealt (from safely inside an office, thankfully not at the sharp end on the ground) with more fatalities than I care to remember, and when such an incident starts no-one knows how long it will take to clear up; The Police have control of the situation, not the railway (neither Network Rail nor the Operators affected). We have had, on occasion, to wait for a Police photographer to attend the site, sometimes from a long way away, before the body could be moved, and on other occasions the Procurator Fiscal (in Scotland) has become involved, again affecting the re-opening of the line.

 

I too have been heavily delayed on the railway, in the UK and abroad, and have waited like every other passenger for up to date information, however this is not always available; While it is intensely frustrating at the time, at the end of the day the railway does its best to get everyone home, safely, and does not abandon its passengers (unlike certain airlines for example). And remember that delayed passengers are entitled to compensation, whether the delay is actually the railway's fault or not. I am still waiting however for compensation for a cancelled bus or mega-delay on a motorway, both of which i have experienced many times !

[peanuts]

 I am still waiting however for compensation for a cancelled bus or mega-delay on a motorway, both of which i have experienced many times !

case in point my partner is traveling to london today by megabus arrive at bus station 0640 for 0700 coach .0640 coach to Birmingham nowhere to be seen as are the mega bus staff  .my partners coach left bang on time still no sign off the 0640 and only member of staff was the driver of the london bus who did his best appalling customer service that drew little comment above shrugged shoulders from those affected 

[Bernard Lamb]

While it is intensely frustrating at the time, at the end of the day the railway does its best to get everyone home, safely, and does not abandon its passengers (unlike certain airlines for example). And remember that delayed passengers are entitled to compensation, whether the delay is actually the railway's fault or not.

You might call it compensation. I would call it getting part of the money back due to the failure of one party in a contract to deliver what they offered.

The main problem yesterday was a total lack of any railway staff available to help and advise passengers as to the best way to continue their journey. I used four stations on my journey home and there was no customer service staff visible at any of them. Some people I was travelling with were not used to such situations and would not have been able to get home until much later given the circumstances of yesterday. I accept that there was a major problem that escalated far beyond the point of origin. I accept that there will be knock on delays and alternative transport will not be available. I can not accept that senior management in several rail companies decided not to face the public. Yesterday the railway did not do it's best. Not going by many of the comments expressed by fellow passengers.

Bernard (still very cross)

[BlackRat]

'Jumpers' who rarely jump, are a regular thing on the Tamar Road bridge these days, usually requiring the plod to completely close the bridge..........sometimes for hours.

 

This can add 3 hours to a 10 min journey home.

 

The ones who actually go over, tend to walk out on the bridge and just go.

 

Sometimes undetected if it's dark and the bridge is quiet.

 

Luckily the railway remains unaffected and I've never known anyone threaten to jump from the railway bridge.

[jjb1970]

I too have been heavily delayed on the railway, in the UK and abroad, and have waited like every other passenger for up to date information, however this is not always available; While it is intensely frustrating at the time, at the end of the day the railway does its best to get everyone home, safely, and does not abandon its passengers (unlike certain airlines for example). And remember that delayed passengers are entitled to compensation, whether the delay is actually the railway's fault or not. I am still waiting however for compensation for a cancelled bus or mega-delay on a motorway, both of which i have experienced many times !

That is exactly why I was so cross last night, people were abandoned and the railway did not do its best.

 

Most people are not stupid (although it is increasingly common in society for people to dismiss anybody with an opposing view on anything as being stupid) and people appreciate that things go wrong. Last night LM and Virgin had numerous options, including:

 

1. Advising passengers to remain in London

 

2. Advising passengers to use alternative routes to their destination such as Chiltern trains

 

3. Advising passengers not to travel if they could avoid it

 

4. Advising passengers that they could use an alternative route to reach a certain point and make their own way home from that point using local buses, taxi etc

 

5. Advise passengers to use an alternative route to reach a certain point where buses would be provided to complete the journey

 

Last night the railway did most of the above but my issue is with points 4 and 5. Passengers were given point 5 as an option, what was actually on offer was point 4. If you go to Luton Parkway based on guidance that replacement buses were running then it is reasonable to expect those replacement buses to be provided. If the railway could not source buses then they should not offer that option, if they'd told passengers to go to Luton and then make their way to a bus stop where they could take a bus to MK or find a taxi then that would have been fine. The Thameslink chaps at Luton hadn't seen a replacement bus for hours, yet passengers at Euston were still being told there was replacement buses, if buses could not be sourced then that should have been known and passed on to both passengers and staff at Luton. One of the problems was that the Thameslink guys could not find out if the replacement bus service had been cancelled, if there were just no buses available or anything else (and lest we forget, this was not their mess). That is just not acceptable. I was already coming to the conclusion I should just make my own way home, but others had no idea whether that was an option (why would they if they were dumped somewhere they'd never been to before with no idea how far they were from their destination and whether an alternative was possible?) and as I say people were very patient with the Thameslink staff as they did understand it wasn't their mess. The Thameslink guys made a good effort to find out what was happening and it was obvious that nobody was offering them anything.

 

In terms of alternatives, what happens on roads and with airlines is irrelevant. If I was at an airport in a similar situation I'd be cross with the airline and/or airport and wouldn't consider it relevant that I tend to suffer far more delays when using the train. This is not an infrequent event. This is the fourth major disruption I've experienced on the WCML in little over a month, in risk analysis terms that is a very high frequency event. In no way is this unforeseeable, and I'd expect better contingency planning than anything I saw this week, even if that contingency plan is to be honest and tell people there's not a lot the railway can do so it's best to just wait in London.

[hayfield]

Brian, sadly when people come to that decision, thoughtfulness for others is probably the last thing on their minds.

My daughter has to deal with those who take their own life, mostly its not very pretty and not only affects those who are left behind, there are those like the train drivers just doing their job and get dragged into it, also those who have to pick up the pieces or tell relatives.

 

I don't think any of us really know the despair those who take their own life are going through and there is a world of difference from being depressed about something and being mentally ill through depression, easy to blame it on the modern world by 50 years ago my fathers work colleague lost his son (who was in his early teens) to suicide. Perhaps now we are in a very materialistic, less caring society. Where as in the past the local community would be there for support.

 

There is also a massive drug problem which descends the user into mental illness which in turn affects others through crime and anti social behaviour. I guess we have been there before with the decline of previous empires, society reaches a pinnacle then self destructs.

[Rugd1022]

Sadly London Midland services were buggered yesterday because four little scrotes decided to set fire to the van they'd just nicked under the shallow viaduct near Brandon, between Rugby and Coventry, causing masonry to fall onto the road below.

[Simon Lee]

There's more than one way to end ones life if that is the wanted end result.  None of them very tempting but that someone's son / daughter / father / mother / husband / wife could have considered the consequences of their last action and the impact it had on others who are still content to live a normal lifespan.

 

Brian.

Alternately you could tell them to man up and get over it.

 

Sadly IMHO your post illustrates a breath taking ignorance of mental health issues, have had a very close relative attempt to take their own life many years ago, I fndit incredible that anyone who really knows the worthlessness some people feel when suicidal considers that that person should consider others in the method of taking their own life beggars belief.

 

I sincerely hope it never happens to a relative of yours.

[Mad McCann]

'One-unders' weren't a daily occurrence when I started on 'the job'. By the time I got out they were almost a daily/twice daily occurrence somewhere on the system. I make no judgement on the individuals who were ill enough to contemplate such an action, but perhaps it's more of an indictment of the society that has come to prevail here that people find it a more attractive option to remaining alive.

 

D.