Garage conversion advice sought

[hayfield]

A friend of mine who was a maintance worker for a housing association built a shed where the bottom half was built in concrete blocks and the top half and roof in wood, this is so much cheaper if you are able to design and build yourself. Earlier I said after looking at the costs involved in buying an appropriate shed and fitting it out, it was no more expensive if not cheaper adding the extra space to the extension we were planning, the added benefit is the increased value of the property doing it this way

[Colin_McLeod]

Ironically increased value of property is only a benefit if one plans to move house again and house moving is not conducive to getting a layout completed.

[hayfield]

Ironically increased value of property is only a benefit if one plans to move house again and house moving is not conducive to getting a layout completed.

Or in these days adds to the amount of a life time mortgage (or whatever they are called) one could borrow in the future

[Colin_McLeod]

Fair point Hayfield

Such funding may be useful for competing the layout LOL

[big jim]

So I’ve just spoke to the council and they have said fill out a permitted development enquiry form to see if I need planning permission for any work I’m planning, I am going to replace the roof regardless for a like for like one soon

 

Regardless of what the outcome is as the garage will become a ‘habitable room’ I will need building regs/visits which will cost me £440

 

It’s all down to the cost of the work now really, I’ve got a guy coming round tomorrow to quote for the roof then I’ll look at Plasterer’s etc

[big jim]

So I did the form on line above, turns out the ‘enquiry form’ is actually a legally binding document and once filled out you need to pay the £440 so earlier I got a phone call from the council demanding outstanding payment, so much for an ‘enquiry form’ I was fully expecting some sort of reply over the last few weeks saying either, no I don’t need building regs, crack on, or yes, you do please pay the £440

 

When I said I wasn’t sure on when I was planning on starting said conversion or even if it was going to fully go ahead to the extent I had originally planned I was told i had x number of days to pay the money or debt collectors would be called in

 

As it happens I’ve got a favourable quote for the roof and the bi fold doors are arriving tomorrow so the job is going ahead but as I pointed out to them I’m not a builder and it’s not exactly clear on the on line form that once submitted your ‘enquiry’ you committed to paying the £440, I have been granted a weeks extension to pay up (I will be doing it tomorrow anyway) i pointed out that as my monitory plans have changed slightly I wouldn’t be doing all the work at once hence why I was waiting until I was defiantly sure if a timescale before having them do their initial visit “oh that’s ok, the building regs approval lasts for a year and if the work goes over you can pay just £130 for an extension on the time of another year upnto 2 more years!

 

Regards the visit, I asked when the council guy comes I take it he will tell me what I need to be doing to keep within building regulations say adding steel lintel above the doors, the type of glass I’m to use etc, the answer “oh no he won’t tell you what you need, if you use a reputable builder he will know the regulations and will work to them” so what am I paying for? “He will check the work is right as it goes on” so i’ll Only know it’s wrong after it’s all completed and he then finds something

 

To an outsider it’s all very confusing, obviously I wouldn’t do the work without the regs, as I said to them if I said I wasn’t carrying on then got someone in to repair the roof I could guarantee the first car behind the roofers van would be a council inspector!

 

Even if I shelved the project and just wanted someone in to repair the existing roof then I would have to pay the £440 as that falls under building regulation jurisdiction too

 

This better be the best garage conversion ever!

Edited February 7, 2018 by big jim

[chris p bacon]

I reckon there is a bit of confusion over the form you've filled out Jim.

 

Permitted development and building regs are 2 completely separate things, the first is an enquiry to see if the works you'd like fall within the scope of planning, You would only be liable for payment for Building regs if you've filled out an application for a 'Building Notice'  This is where you don't deposit plans in advance and have inspections as you proceed. 

 

The local BI's we work with are certainly not 'jobsworths' and if it was explained that you were after permitted development advice and had applied in error they wouldn't pursue, it's simply not worth their while.

[big jim]

When I initially asked the planning department on the phone if the works I was planning were covered under building regs they said that as the garage will become a ‘habitable space’ it would be a ‘permitted development’ matter but as I was looking at replacing (even repairing the existing roof) that fell under building regs jurisdiction

 

Your 2nd paragraph pretty much sums up where the confusion has arisen, i ‘enquired’ and got redirected to a form what I can assume was the ‘building notice’ which is what I assume I’ve been told I’ve got to pay for, and yes I’ve got no ‘plans’ submitted and am fully expecting the work to be inspected stage by stage so it must have been the form I filled out

 

 

don’t get me wrong it did say there was a £440 fee and I’m under no illusion that was hidden from me, didn’t know about it, indeed if I’ve got to pay it to make sure I’m up toncode I’ve got no issue but I thought the fee was only payable once you decided to carry out the work and you wanted the inspector to make his first visit prior to work commencing

Edited February 7, 2018 by big jim

[chris p bacon]

don’t get me wrong it did say there was a £440 fee and I’m under no illusion that was hidden from me, didn’t know about it, indeed if I’ve got to pay it to make sure I’m up toncode I’ve got no issue but I thought the fee was only payable once you decided to carry out the work and you wanted the inspector to make his first visit prior to work commencing

 

 

I do 'Full plans' submission, there's an application fee then on first visit the inspections fees kicks in. The BI's in this area are really helpful and I don't mind paying it, but I wouldn't be happy if it was concealed.

[big jim]

That’s exactly what I thought would happen, my ‘idea/plan’ on file until whenever I chose to get the guy in for the first visit, paying up front just before, if it didn’t go ahead then no fees to pay as no visits undertaken

[chris p bacon]

That’s exactly what I thought would happen, my ‘idea/plan’ on file until whenever I chose to get the guy in for the first visit, paying up front just before, if it didn’t go ahead then no fees to pay as no visits undertaken

 

Building regs are supposed to be "not for profit' so they just cover their costs, I'm guessing your area has discovered a 'Revenue stream' (as a senior planner let slip at a site consultation a couple of years ago)

[teaky]

I'm going to duplicate some of what Chris P Bacon has said but just in case it helps clarify things for anyone reading this thread.  One would have hoped that the council's website and staff would have made this clear but it seems not.

 

What appears to have happened here seems to be a very common mistake - hardly surprising when most people only encounter these departments once in a while.  Planning and Building Control are two separate functions within local government.  What I believe you were seeking here Jim was to obtain confirmation that what you had in mind was classed as Permitted Development and didn't need Planning Consent and, therefore, didn't need a Planning Application.  Regardless of the answer, any (substantial) work carried out will require approval by Building Control and thus need to be inspected.

 

The Planning dept. seem to have confirmed this is within the scope of Permitted Development so you won't have to shell out a fee for Planning Consent.  As you say Jim, the Building Notice application would have been required anyway but perhaps you would have timed things differently.  Look on the bright side, perhaps you might have saved some money if the fees go up from April.

 

There appears to be some variation from one area to another.  Our Building Control guys are very helpful and I have always found them to be a useful source of information regarding how to do something and what materials to use.  (It helps to do your research up front so that you are using them to double check your approach or to decide between two methods.)  Make sure you check with them regarding when they want to inspect just to make sure you don't go too far and cover something up that they want to look at.  I'd suggest always taking a few photos anyway for your own records and they might just come in handy.

[teaky]

Something else which occurs to me that may be helpful.  I don't think these apply to you, but just in case...

 

When I converted our garage a few years ago, I encountered a couple of oddities which it would be easy to fall foul of.  A couple of years before converting the garage I added an extension to the side of the house to create a utility room.  This connected the previously separate garage to the house by, effectively, roofing over the side passage way.  Even though the extension was less than 1.5m wide it was deemed to be a significantly wider extension as I was extending the width of the house by 7m (new extension plus width of double garage).  This meant that I needed to pay for a Planning Application for a dinky little extension which, because of the alignment of houses, is only visible to one of our neighbours (not to mention that a proper roof and door look much better than a shiplap gate anyway).

 

Something which came up later during a conversation with the Building Control Inspector during the garage conversion is that if I had included a toilet then it would have been viewed as a different category of work.  It wouldn't have affected Building Control but I would have needed Planning Consent for the work on the garage too.  As it was, I didn't include a toilet and it was within Permitted development.  FYI All I did was create a new room at the back of the garage leaving the area at the front looking like a garage from the outside but effectively being a posh shed on the inside just fractionally deeper then the space needed to open an up-and-over door.

[hayfield]

I do 'Full plans' submission, there's an application fee then on first visit the inspections fees kicks in. The BI's in this area are really helpful and I don't mind paying it, but I wouldn't be happy if it was concealed.

 

Dave

 

I had a good building inspector but still had issues with him. We have had a large single story extension built and a major reorganisation of the ground floor layout.

 

On the whole the overseeing of the project in the end was fine, but had a few issues with the builder which could have been dealt with quicker or saved some issues if he had spoken with me after every visit and raised his concerns with me. Certainly would have saved us some concerns and him some unnecessary site visits. 

 

Thankfully the financial impact was kept in the end far lower than it could have been, time did drag on though 

 

Anyone using a contractor I would recommend that the owner has a private chat at the end of each visit with the building inspector, and ask a simple question. Do you have any concerns and if so what are they. I would also confirm this in an email to the building inspector via email each time, then there would be no confusion, and would ensure the building inspector knows you are on top of the work

 

I must add most of the sub contractors were fine as was the second contractor, thankfully in the end the job is a good one. Took a bit longer and cost a bit more, but unlike some others using the first builder it sounded like we got off lightly