Michael Delamar Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Looking for an explanation on these signals at Liverpool Central station in the 1960s. Photos by Ron Couchman with permission, Ron was a signalman there and he cant remember why they were like that. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I'm not sure that this is the answer, but when signals were positioned vertically, the topmost one was for the most left hand route, then working in sequence downwards. But I've only come across this with semaphores; colour lights usually had a single cluster for all routes then 'feathers' to denote the one set, if not the main. These do seem to be in vertical groups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Theories so far is that it the bottom ones could be out of use and not bagged, or it may be something to do with releasing light engines from the block? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 There was up and down lines for the station approach, but also a “middle road”, perhaps the signals applied to that routing? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velopeur Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) Elevated shunting signals seems most likely for the bottom groups, as there are no other signals for shunting manoeuvres at the locations where these colour lights are - and they would surely be necessary? On the second photo, for example, there are 2 lights in the bottom group on the signal post on the platform and 2 discs in the 6 foot for the adjacent middle siding, rather than colour lights. Edited December 4, 2017 by Velopeur 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Strange how the bottom ones are not lit.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Few years later... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2017 Looking at the diagram the lower signals are definitely shunts 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Hi, They could be a form of auxiliary running signal that the LMS installed in 1940 for shunting moves But most likely they are either out of use (although thy should have a white cross over them) or a colour light version of the stacked semaphores for routing information. Either way I would be very interested in the answer and possibly using the photos in my book... Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2017 Hi, They could be a form of auxiliary running signal that the LMS installed in 1940 for shunting moves But most likely they are either out of use (although thy should have a white cross over them) or a colour light version of the stacked semaphores for routing information. Either way I would be very interested in the answer and possibly using the photos in my book... Simon They are shunt signals Simon http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67055-liverpool-central-signal-box/?p=918275 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 They are shunt signals Simon http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67055-liverpool-central-signal-box/?p=918275 I see, thanks Dave, most interesting! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velopeur Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Out of curiosity, what is the typewriter-shaped device on the near track on the third photo, please? Also, does Ron have any more photos he would like to share with us? The ones so far look really good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2017 I'm no signal expert and therefore have no opinion but what excellent photos - all new to me. Thanks Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 Out of curiosity, what is the typewriter-shaped device on the near track on the third photo, please? Also, does Ron have any more photos he would like to share with us? The ones so far look really good. Looks like some sort of treadle--axle counter type device. Possible "last wheel replacement" device for the signal for trains backing out of that platform? Only guessing as I've not seen that type of device before. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 He has lots more here are a few.. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2017 Looks like some sort of treadle-######-axle counter type device. Possible "last wheel replacement" device for the signal for trains backing out of that platform? Only guessing as I've not seen that type of device before. Regards, Ian. Interesting to see the politically correct software "police" censoring perfectly good English and screwing up the sentence with ###### (the word phonetically spelt as "see you em"). I wonder if the same software will detect "screwing" as politically incorrect? Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velopeur Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Pictures of that quality ought to be on a website or in a book so we can all enjoy them. Well done, Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Pictures of that quality ought to be on a website or in a book so we can all enjoy them. Well done, Ron Some are in a very good new book called Journey of a railway signalman. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Looking at the diagram the lower signals are definitely shunts I can see now thanks to Keith’s plan and agree , but its still puzzling me why they are not lit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2017 I can see now thanks to Keith’s plan and agree , but its still puzzling me why they are not lit. The red is shown by the main aspect, the shunts only illuminate when cleared. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) What manoeuvre did the three aspects on the shunt signals (red, yellow, green?) indicate? Did the 'main' red stay illuminated? And what are the 'klaxon horns' all about? Thanks, Bill (edited) Edited December 5, 2017 by AberdeenBill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2017 What manoeuvre did the three aspects on the shunt signals (red, yellow, green?) indicate? Did the 'main' red stay illuminated? And what are the 'klaxon horns' all about? Thanks, Bill (edited) Shuting to the Turntable, Middle Road or to the Limit Of Shunt on the down road - although the LOS position seems strange, I would have expected it to be nearer to Brunswick to allow the return moves to be made under the control of signal 42. Unfortunately Ron's photo is a bit unclear around the area. I would guess the klaxons are to "sound" that the disk signal 44 has been cleared for a move back into the station, if the pilot was at the Brunswick end of stock it would be impossible to see 44 (I assume) so the Klaxons sound when it's been cleared. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted December 5, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2017 There was up and down lines for the station approach, but also a “middle road”, perhaps the signals applied to that routing? The middle road ran all the way to Brunswick but was mostly used for carriage shunting at Central, the exit at the far end was a ground signal, probably used for light engine moves to Brunswick shed. Don't forget this was a very early colour light signal installation, done pre-war, long before feathers appeared. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 What manoeuvre did the three aspects on the shunt signals (red, yellow, green?) indicate? Did the 'main' red stay illuminated? Thanks, Bill (edited) What I was thinking is. would they show red, yellow green? or would they all show a white or a yellow? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2017 What I was thinking is. would they show red, yellow green? or would they all show a white or a yellow? Looking at Keiths' drawing they appear to show green and white and/or yellow - maybe the middle road used the green and the normal shunts locally used white/yellow ? - unfortunately without further information I can't tell anything more. They aren't consistent across the throat either - some look to be two lamp and some three even though the available routes are the same ! (looking closer at the diagram the turntable road had it's own offset shunt signals) They were worked off the same lever as the main aspect so would be cleared by route / track circuit detection in preference to the main aspect. As Mike says, this was an early (1934) scheme and no doubt made sense at the time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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