mswjr Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Hi All, I need to wire in a code 75 crossing,,It is an electrofog crossing,I have done all my code 75 live frog points,It took me a while to understand the wiring , once i got my head around it it was easy,But i can not get my head around this crossing,I have looked online,But that only shows the Bladed crossing,mine is just a crossing ,it is peco elecrofrog crossing SLE-194, It has some sleepers underneath that are cut away,This on my points was where i soldered a wire across to the blade,do i solder wires here on a crossing,can someone point me to a website or a sketch or help, much appreciated, Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 If your using DCC the simplest way of dealing with these is a couple of Gaugemaster DCC80 modules to automatically throw the polarity on the frogs. There should be a wire connected to each frog , if not you need to make a connection to each frog (or a rail leading from them). If you are not using DCC you need to arrange some way of changing the frog polarity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 8, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2017 It sounds just like what I went through with wiring a crossing which you can find in the link below. here are several pictures which might help http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123006-guidance-on-wiring-my-diamond/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswjr Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 Thank for getting back so quick ,I am using just dc, and that first answer frightened me to death,I am just reading throu the link,Ill let you know how i get on, or not. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswjr Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 Well i have just read that link,And that gone right over my head,I am not looking forward to tomorrow,I shall read it over a couple of times,Then give it ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 8, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2017 As you're running DC then the Gaugemaster DCC80 is not what you need. Instead you need a single Gaugemaster GM500 (see http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GM500&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster+GM500 ). This is a relay with two built in changeover switches designed to be switched in conjunction with a solenoid point motor. You need to wire each frog separately to its two switches. The GM500 is then wired to be switched by the point motor that controls the route over the crossing. On the link I gave above, there are further links to wiring diagrams for various uses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2017 Assuming you have the points wired and working correctly, I think you can do this very simply (and cheaply) using the first picture in entry 23 from the link I made earlier. Step 1, Power connection. You can see where I have connected power to the electrofrog crossing. This provides power to the crossing whether DCC or DC. Step 2. For the crossing frog polarity switching. First link the frog from the point in the top left of the picture to the crossing frog on the bottom right. Then link the frog from the point in the bottom right to the crossing frog on the top left. You need only use 2 wires, 1 to connect each crossing frog which results in a system that changing points polarity also changes crossing frog polarity at the same time. I found that once I had grasped the concept of setting a route, not just a point, it all became a lot easier to understand. The method requires you to set the routes correctly otherwise you will get a short. To date it has worked very efficiently for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswjr Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 Thanks for the replies,I only looked at it today,as the grandchildren were at my house,and i could not get the time i needed,I will have a go tomorrow ,But not looking forward to it, As i said i have to understand it first,and i do not understand it at the moment, Ill let you know, Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) © Brian Lambert see http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical%20page%202.html for more info Edited December 11, 2017 by Junctionmad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hi All, I need to wire in a code 75 crossing,,It is an electrofog crossing,I have done all my code 75 live frog points,It took me a while to understand the wiring , once i got my head around it it was easy,But i can not get my head around this crossing,I have looked online,But that only shows the Bladed crossing,mine is just a crossing ,it is peco elecrofrog crossing SLE-194, It has some sleepers underneath that are cut away,This on my points was where i soldered a wire across to the blade,do i solder wires here on a crossing,can someone point me to a website or a sketch or help, much appreciated, Garry You have not given enough information. If the crossing is for instance part of a double junction where the up line crosses the down line and the one route is on one controller or cab and the other another you need to switch the red and Black lines in Junctionmads diagram above. I use a 4 pole changeover relay powered by a micro switch on the point selecting Dn main or Dn branch, but a 4 pole 2 or 3 way switch (Rotary?) would be as good. It is the "Knuckle" for want of a better word connecting black rails which causes the complication not just the Frogs. I live frogged several Peco insulfrog code 100 crossings 30 yeas ago and fitted relays which are still going strong. Live frog crossings are one area where DCC is much simpler than DC and the skill level required for DCC significanty less than DC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 . Live frog crossings are one area where DCC is much simpler than DC and the skill level required for DCC significanty less than DC. Er - live frog switching is the same for both DC & DCC. Granted control panel wiring for DCC is simpler than DC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Er - live frog switching is the same for both DC & DCC. Granted control panel wiring for DCC is simpler than DC. Unless it is a one controller layout if the crossing is a proper live frog set up you need to switch feed to 2 frogs and 2 rail on DC and just 2 frogs on DCC 2X Frog Juicers on DCC 1X 4 pole change over relay and 1 X micro switch on DC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Yes, there are different ways of the switching of a diamond, each way is correct, some more expensive than others. Brian Lamberts' website is perhaps one of the best as it covers a basic diamond as well as a scissors crossover. I use frog juicers as well but to some, the deliberate creation of a short circuit, no matter how small a time, is wrong and they will not have anything to do with them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 but to some, the deliberate creation of a short circuit, no matter how small a time, is wrong and they will not have anything to do with them The same " some" of course, were sitting in judgement of the Salem witches , I'm afraid they will always be with us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 The same " some" of course, were sitting in judgement of the Salem witches , I'm afraid they will always be with us. Crikey! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Crikey! yes the "mis-informed " to give them a kindly name Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard.h Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Thanks for the replies,I only looked at it today,as the grandchildren were at my house,and i could not get the time i needed,I will have a go tomorrow ,But not looking forward to it, As i said i have to understand it first,and i do not understand it at the moment, Ill let you know, Garry I run DCC now but can only agree that something like DPDT switch as advised should do the job for you, the main thing is the improvement it makes. At first I installed peco insulfrog crossings to save on wiring but the performance was not acceptable, when I changed to wired and switched electrofrogs the improvement was dramatic and now even the shortest wheelbase 0-4-0 will run at a crawl across them without hesitation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 There is a diagram in the Peco instruction sheet relevant to the SLE 194. As you will see it needs TWO DPDT switches if two different controllers are involved. I actually use one 4 pole relay operated by a point motor on a 12volt DC Bus Bar ( for want of a better term) because basically I feel it is ridiculous to have to switch a separate manual switch on a diamond, and mine is DC so it would be even more ridiculous to have to change a manual switch on DCC with maybe yards of wire just to do one crossing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 ...which brings the topic back to use of frog juicers on dcc - the Gaugemaster DCC80 at £4.87 each, or £12.24 for a pack of 3, (plus postage) from Track Shack compares quite favourably IMO to the cost of DPDT switch, the length of necessary cable for a DPDT switch and any necessary inter baseboard electrical connections. Alternatively if the crossing is amiss a stack of point work and there are spare switched connections on the point motors that can be used to correctly polarise the crossing then the need for a DPDT switch or a frog juicer can be avoided. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) Hello MSWJR I have just checked and I see that Peco produce a fine scale Code 75 single slip. I mention this because I had a similar problem with a Code 100 diamond crossing which I replaced with a Code 100 insulfrog single slip. Yes you need two ooint motors for the single slip but you don't need any special track wiring. In my case the point motors could be operated by existing switches for the routes over the crossing. Over time I have had three or four Code 100 diamond crossings which have all caused running problems. There seems to be a tendancy for the track unit to arch upwards encouraging rigid coupled units to loose elctrical contact and stall. The Insulfrog single slip has much more metal and results in much smoother running. Just don't actually use the slilp to turn off the mainline - it is far too tight. Another view Ray Edited February 11, 2018 by Silver Sidelines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 You can also switch the diamond relating to either approach track but accessory switches associated with the turnouts that connect to the diamond. https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/how-to-work-out-diamond-crossing-frog-wiring/ http://www.feeditcomics.com/peco-scissors-crossover-wiring-diagram.html http://www.stciers.me.uk/home/track_wiring/scissors.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Hello MSWJR I have just checked and I see that Peco produce a fine scale Code 75 single slip. I mention this because I had a similar problem with a Code 100 diamond crossing which I replaced with a Code 100 insulfrog single slip. Yes you need two ooint motors for the single slip but you don't need any special track wiring. In my case the point motors could be operated by existing switches for the routes over the crossing. Over time I have had three or four Code 100 diamond crossings which have all caused running problems. There seems to be a tendancy for the track unit to arch upwards encouraging rigid coupled units to loose elctrical contact and stall. The Insulfrog single slip has much more metal and results in much smoother running. Just don't actually use the slilp to turn off the mainline - it is far too tight. Another view Ray The Code 100 diamond (SL 94) is different electrically to the Code 75 SL194 in that the 94 has an insulated bit at the mid point. I join the outer rails together by judicious cutting and pushing the rails inwards and soldering them together, Before doing this the two routes are completely separate electrically but the SL 194 appears to have the outer rails bonded. The problem with the Code 100 SL94 Insulfrog is for most 4-6-0, 2-6-0, 2-6-2, 2-8-0 locos have one wheel on the insulated frog and another on the insulated mid point joiner and stop dead either completely or instantaneously. Live frogging the thing or much easier substituting a double slip is the only cure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Simplest way on DC is to stick insulated rail joiners on every rail of the crossing and wire the thing as a section in its own right. You still use the same number of switches overall, but it's much easier to understand. John Edited February 12, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I wouldn't want to have every diamond as a section switch on this then ! https://img.index.hu/imgfrm/9/7/7/9/BIG_0010369779.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) I wouldn't want to have every diamond as a section switch on this then ! https://img.index.hu/imgfrm/9/7/7/9/BIG_0010369779.jpg I'd agree, but the wording of OP's enquiry suggests (at least to me) that he probably only has one or two. I used the separate section trick last time I wired a double slip after getting into all sorts of a muddle trying to do it in other ways. I put the switch on the baseboard edge next to the slip and took the power from the adjacent section feeds to keep the length of wiring runs to a minimum. I used a switch without a centre-off position as the slip/crossing would always be connected to one adjacent section or the other, both of which could be switched off. The point wasn't being motorised. Had I subsequently motorised it, I would have just needed to replace the manual switch with an accessory switch or any suitable ancillary contacts on the motor. John Edited February 12, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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