Single use plastic and model railways

[Chamby]

There has been a lot of noise lately about the amount of plastic entering the environment, with growing concern about single use plastics in particular.

 

I am currently building a new model railway and it suddenly dawned on me yesterday how much plastic I am throwing into the bin with little thought about what happens to it afterwards.

 

Product packaging is the obvious one. Not long ago, Peco points came in a cardboard box, but they now come in a heavy duty plastic sleeve... that goes straight in the bin.

 

I used to use cork underlay when tracklaying. More recently I have been using Woodland scenics foam, offcuts of which go straight in the bin.

 

Laying flexible track results in surplus short lengths and plastic sleepers, that apart from a few ‘spares’ kept by - all go straight into the bin.

 

I looked through what was in my workshop bin. Plastic kit sprues, empty plastic paint pots, an empty glue bottle, a broken coupling, parings from wiring the layout, little plastic bags that held screws for fixing the point motors... the list goes on.

 

Yes we might re-use some of it, such as fettling packaging to make or support items on the layout, but everything that goes into the layout will only have a fixed lifespan before it too gets thrown away at some point in the future. All that plasticard and assembled kits that, in time, we will have no more use for.

 

If, as has been recently said, the accumulation of plastic in the environment is the greatest crisis facing our planet, We have unwittingly become a part of the problem.

 

So what can we do about it???

[jcm@gwr]

On the whole I agree with you, but,

most of the plastics can be re-cycled.

It's not too onerous a task to separate

them and put them in the correct bin.

 

Obviously, the card, paper and hard

plastics are easy, the plastic bags and

metal, not so obvious, but still do-able.

I put the bags in the supermarket bag

re-cycling point (just collect them in a

bag until you next do a shopping trip)

 

If you have enough off-cuts of rail (and

any brass/copper etc) your local scrap

dealer will weigh it and then help you

afford your next modelling purchase!

[88D]

On the whole I agree with you, but,

most of the plastics can be re-cycled.

It's not too onerous a task to separate

them and put them in the correct bin.

 

Obviously, the card, paper and hard

plastics are easy, the plastic bags and

metal, not so obvious, but still do-able.

I put the bags in the supermarket bag

re-cycling point (just collect them in a

bag until you next do a shopping trip)

 

If you have enough off-cuts of rail (and

any brass/copper etc) your local scrap

dealer will weigh it and then help you

afford your next modelling purchase!

I have a sneaky feeling that the plastics we recycle in council bins, etc does not all end up as being truly recycled. A fair chunk will be sent to incinerators - better than landfill or polluting the seas, but not reused except for energy recycling! May be wrong though.

[Steamport Southport]

 

If, as has been recently said, the accumulation of plastic in the environment is the greatest crisis facing our planet, We have unwittingly become a part of the problem.

 

So what can we do about it???

 

It's really not. I think there are vastly more important threats than a bit of plastic. North Korea, Russian expansionism, terrorism, Israel/Palestine, Religious nutjobs, Far Left nutjobs, Far Right nutjobs, etc.

 

Stop watching SKY News for starters. They're the biggest polluters of rubbish with their "fake news".

 

 

If it does worry you, then do your bit and put it in the recycling like most sensible people do anyway. Join an organisation that cleans up beaches or parks in your local area.

 

There's plenty that you can do. Just don't worry. 

 

 

 

Jason

[TheSignalEngineer]

We are fairly lucky in what we can put in our recycling bin. They don't like plastic bags but the local supermarket takes them and they don't like black plastic food trays. In the railway room I have a couple of old plastic margarine tubs which are used for all bits of metal and plastic sprues/offcuts. When I occasionally go to the recycling centre with scrap metal, timber or rubble these get sorted and emptied into the relevant skips.

Edited January 1, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer

[jcm@gwr]

Further to my post above, you can limit your

impact by thinking about the problem before

buying anything.

 

Do you, for example, use cotton buds for

cleaning wheels? If so, make sure that you

only buy the ones made from cardboard, not

plastic (most supermarkets have committed

to stocking these now)

 

Also, when you buy any products for use in

your modelling, (PVA, IPA, flock, ballast, etc) 

buy the largest container you can, and then

de-cant into a smaller one for use. It works

out a lot cheaper in the long run, a lot less

packaging, and less is wasted if you happen

to knock it over!

If you really can't use it all, then feel good by

donating the rest to your local MRC and make

some new friends!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have a sneaky feeling that the plastics we recycle in council bins, etc does not all end up as being truly recycled...

 Change is imminent. Many (most?) such schemes were set up on the basis that the plastics were sorted and then moved to China for processing, But China is closing the door on accepting the rest of the developed world's plastic recycling streams. (Probably generating enough plastics for recycling internally to meet demand for the recycled product.)

[Guius]

 Change is imminent. Many (most?) such schemes were set up on the basis that the plastics were sorted and then moved to China for processing, But China is closing the door on accepting the rest of the developed world's plastic recycling streams. (Probably generating enough plastics for recycling internally to meet demand for the recycled product.)

You are quite right, Chinas refusal to accept any more of our domestic waste has upset the whole applecart. The present system of landfill taxation is predicated on the assumption that some one will recycle our garbage for a fee lower than the tax levied on it in order to dump it in a hole in the ground and not because of its intrinsic value. As happened a few years ago when the market price of cullet fell, waste glass was stock piled, I fear this will happen to our domestic waste plastic. Successive governments have been more than happy to 'sweep it under the carpet' Chinas way rather than legislate in order to reduce our addiction to plastic and risk the ire of big business.

 

Guy

[DCB]

There has been a lot of noise lately about the amount of plastic entering the environment, with growing concern about single use plastics in particular.

 

I am currently building a new model railway and it suddenly dawned on me yesterday how much plastic I am throwing into the bin with little thought about what happens to it afterwards.

 

Product packaging is the obvious one. Not long ago, Peco points came in a cardboard box, but they now come in a heavy duty plastic sleeve... that goes straight in the bin.

 

I used to use cork underlay when tracklaying. More recently I have been using Woodland scenics foam, offcuts of which go straight in the bin.

 

Laying flexible track results in surplus short lengths and plastic sleepers, that apart from a few ‘spares’ kept by - all go straight into the bin.

 

I looked through what was in my workshop bin. Plastic kit sprues, empty plastic paint pots, an empty glue bottle, a broken coupling, parings from wiring the layout, little plastic bags that held screws for fixing the point motors... the list goes on.

 

Yes we might re-use some of it, such as fettling packaging to make or support items on the layout, but everything that goes into the layout will only have a fixed lifespan before it too gets thrown away at some point in the future. All that plasticard and assembled kits that, in time, we will have no more use for.

 

If, as has been recently said, the accumulation of plastic in the environment is the greatest crisis facing our planet, We have unwittingly become a part of the problem.

 

So what can we do about it???

 

Putting plastic waste in the bin is the obvious answer. Whether Landfilled or incinerated it does not find its way into the oceans that way.

I was involved in the recycling scheme for Cotswold District Council.  Waste was carefully sorted into multi coloured bins by terribly nice middle class environmentally aware people and instead of one bin lorry three different ones were deployed and a high percentage of the recyclables were contaminated and went to Landfill.   I am sure I have thrown several grams of sleepers and N/S rail away over the years, but I have a very big pile awaiting reuse which will never be used.

As for waste packaging I just use second hand jiffy bags and cardboard when I sell items and I have not bought anything new and boxed since about 2010.  In fact my latest Baseboard frame came from a skip (It was an internal door in a previous life).  I think when I am dead and gone my Hornby Dublo locos might take a few centuries to decompose..

Logically the biggest threat facing the world is over population so equally logically a cataclysmic depopulating nuclear war would be good for the environment.   Better people than I are working hard on project cataclysm so I will stick to building a layout

Edited January 3, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Poggy1165]

Our local Council will only deign to recycle plastic bottles. Any other plastic, including 99% of model railway bits, goes in the non-recycle bin. Frankly, I think much more could be done if they were bothered and if the finance was invested to make it practicable.

 

Similarly, they only want tin cans and the like in recycle. All other metals, including brass, goes in non-recyclable. Madness, to my mind. Allegedly they pick the metal out with magnets - I'm sure you can all see the snag with this.

[Sheffield]

In th longer term we may come to think China has done us a favour, by forcing us away from the throw away mind set that has developed over the last sixty years or so.

[Reorte]

Waiting for a train at Sheffield a few weeks ago (on the way to Warley as it happened) I saw a cleaner come along and empty the recyling bin bag in to the ordinary one next to it. Does leave you wondering "why bother?"

[ess1uk]

All plastic can be recycled back to oil?

Why not do this and use the oil for something else?

I’m no expert

[rue_d_etropal]

Having been involved in various recycling projects over the years, the news that China is stopping importing other peoples waste has not come soon enough. All plastic can be recycled, it is just difficult to sort it out. On one project it was suggested that you contact the company supplying the plastic,as all types have a reference number. You can then collect all that type, and companies will more for properly sorted plastic of the type they use themselves.

There has been a trend back to paper based packaging, just like those old type boxes Hornby(Triang) used to use, with a simple cardboard ring to pack then out. I don't do so much paper/cardboard recycling as much as I used to, but I did used to mash it up to create my own  non glue version of papier mache. It takes longer to dry, but when it dries it often cracks just like real rock structures.

[uax6]

Logically the biggest threat facing the world is over population so logically a cataclysmic depopulating nuclear war would be good for the environment.   Better people than I are working hard on project cataclysm so I will stick to building a layout

Indeed it is, but sadly I can't see any western government sticking their head above the parapet to address the issue, which of coups will not be a vote winner. With technology removing the need for humans doing any meaningful and rewarding work, just what is the requirement for a large population? It's not as if wars are going to require large numbers of people these days either, so the sooner some sort of population control needs to be introduced.

 

Andy g

[Enterprisingwestern]

Waiting for a train at Sheffield a few weeks ago (on the way to Warley as it happened) I saw a cleaner come along and empty the recyling bin bag in to the ordinary one next to it. Does leave you wondering "why bother?"

 

I've seen a similar thing in various fast food restaurants, there are slots for paper/cardboard. plastic and food waste, yet when the cleaning staff empty the bins they all go in one bag.

 

Mike.

[Wheatley]

It's really not. I think there are vastly more important threats than a bit of plastic. North Korea, Russian expansionism, terrorism, Israel/Palestine, Religious nutjobs, Far Left nutjobs, Far Right nutjobs, etc.

 

 

They're just threatening people, not the long term ecology of the planet. Ok, if Russia and NK start lobbing ICBMs at each other that might skew the ecology a bit but human beings murdering each other won't, even murdering each other in large numbers.

 

Mind you, if you take an even longer term view, the planet will eventually adapt to the plastics problem and survive. It might not be habitable by us but it will survive. 

[Fat Controller]

I've seen a similar thing in various fast food restaurants, there are slots for paper/cardboard. plastic and food waste, yet when the cleaning staff empty the bins they all go in one bag.

 

Mike.

However, far better it happen this way than the converse, where quantities of recyclables are contaminated by non-recyclable waste.

[phil-b259]

Our local Council will only deign to recycle plastic bottles. Any other plastic, including 99% of model railway bits, goes in the non-recycle bin. Frankly, I think much more could be done if they were bothered and if the finance was invested to make it practicable.

 

Similarly, they only want tin cans and the like in recycle. All other metals, including brass, goes in non-recyclable. Madness, to my mind. Allegedly they pick the metal out with magnets - I'm sure you can all see the snag with this.

 

You miss the fundamental problem here namely:-

 

Coucils are dependent on the market for recycled material in the first place! If it costs them more to recycle rubbish than burn it or bury it - then guess what, they don't recycle as it puts council tax bills up! - and that is very bad according to certain political idologies!

 

An example - its technically possible to recycle the takeway coffee cups used in Costa, Starbucks etc, BUT because of the way they are made there are only TWO plants in the UK that could recycle them - but the process of separating out the individual components - the paper and plastic coatings and removing the residual coffee residue is so energy intensive / time consuming it is impossible to make a profit on it.

 

Similarly with plastics - unless the price on the world markets is sufficiently high then it is cheaper to burn or bury the waste. With China banning the import of plastic waste, experts in the sector predict that there will be an oversupply of recycled plastic waste, driving down the price it can be retailed at after processing and actually making recycling EVEN MORE UNECONOMIC.

 

As a society we have two choices - pay more in taxes to subsidise recycling in some way (the sector it is currently treated as a pure private sector business by central Government) or pay more for our plastic products to cover the costs of companies being forced to clean up after themselves rather than passing the buck onto Government.

 

Either way it means PAYING MORE - something far too many of the country's electorate are unwilling to do!

[SM42]

Most of what we waste can have a practical modelling purpose. may I suggest the following:

 

Plasticard off cuts, especially those this strips, fill a model skip.  

 

Sprue: use to brace the inside of kit built vans or as a packer under a wagon load. can even be used to strengthen and brace buildings 

 

Plastic cotton buds. Remove cotton wool ends and you have a section  9 inch diameter pipe for a wagon load or yard scene. 

 

Old knife blades: scrap loads and piles (be careful though) 

 

With a little thought most things can be re-purposed.

 

Andy 

[Poggy1165]

You miss the fundamental problem here namely:-

 

Coucils are dependent on the market for recycled material in the first place! If it costs them more to recycle rubbish than burn it or bury it - then guess what, they don't recycle as it puts council tax bills up! - and that is very bad according to certain political idologies!

 

An example - its technically possible to recycle the takeway coffee cups used in Costa, Starbucks etc, BUT because of the way they are made there are only TWO plants in the UK that could recycle them - but the process of separating out the individual components - the paper and plastic coatings and removing the residual coffee residue is so energy intensive / time consuming it is impossible to make a profit on it.

 

Similarly with plastics - unless the price on the world markets is sufficiently high then it is cheaper to burn or bury the waste. With China banning the import of plastic waste, experts in the sector predict that there will be an oversupply of recycled plastic waste, driving down the price it can be retailed at after processing and actually making recycling EVEN MORE UNECONOMIC.

 

As a society we have two choices - pay more in taxes to subsidise recycling in some way (the sector it is currently treated as a pure private sector business by central Government) or pay more for our plastic products to cover the costs of companies being forced to clean up after themselves rather than passing the buck onto Government.

 

Either way it means PAYING MORE - something far too many of the country's electorate are unwilling to do!

 

 

We are not allowed to talk politics on RMWeb, otherwise I would.

 

Basically, it's no use people moaning about the problem unless they are willing to address it. That is the major problem in the UK. If we, as a people, were as good at "doing" as we are at moaning, we would be world beaters.

[Guest]

We are not allowed to talk politics on RMWeb...

 

I agree completely, but some people always manage to find a way...

I do try to be a good recycler, and I'm lucky in that my council does accept lots of different things for recycling as opposed to maybe just plastic bottles. You should see me just after Christmas... I'm like a man possessed when it comes to disposing of choccie boxes, wrapping etc etc. Sad but true. Ultimately though, it's not my job to single-handedly save the planet. Why? Because it's just not possible. I admitted defeat long ago. For every item that I wash and recycle, there will always be half a dozen tw@ts who just don't give a damn. If anyone can enlighten me as to how I'm supposed to change that, I'd be delighted to know.

As someone mentioned earlier, I think there's just more going on in the world to worry about. I do my bit, but I just can't lose any sleep over it.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Pete 75C

[phil-b259]

We are not allowed to talk politics on RMWeb, otherwise I would.

 

Basically, it's no use people moaning about the problem unless they are willing to address it. That is the major problem in the UK. If we, as a people, were as good at "doing" as we are at moaning, we would be world beaters.

 

Its all very well saying "no politics" but unfortunately 'politics' - and the legislation Politicians pass has far reaching influences in our lives, particularly in areas most seem to ignore.

 

In the case of recycling, imposing a landfill tax on local councils to encourage them to collect more stuff for recycling example sounds great until you examine the detail. If world oil prices drop, the demand for recycled plastic goes down and councils struggle to find contractors willing to take it on so are forced to pay out through no fault of their own. Similarly if recycling of particular items is complex (e.g. Pringles tubes or household cleaning products with built in trigger sprays)  then a landfill tax does nothing to make them any more attractive to recycle.

 

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-39942067/recycling-nightmares-but-can-packaging-be-improved

 

Now if business was a bit more careful about designing products in the first place then recycling would be easier or it was more effective to use recycled plastic than make it from scratch THAT would go a long way to resolving the issues around waste, particularly plastic waste. However Companies are not there to act as Charities - they are there to make profits for shareholders and as long as the regulatory / tax regime ignores the waste issue and it continues to be more cost effective to produce new plastic rather than recycle, business will not change the way it does things.

 

Who decides the tax regime - well its politicians, who generally belong to political parties with certain ideologies. Tacking the problem of waste effectively WILL involve treading on the toes of business - which obviously carries all sorts of risks / threats about what they might do if the Government interferes too much with their ability to make money. Hence my reference to ideologies.....

 

For example if you had a mandatory 'plastic packing charge' added to all products - payable by the manufacturer, which could then be reclaimed with prof of reuse, then it might encourage manufacturers to make packaging more recyclable. In the case of Peco for example if they had to pay a surcharge for the plastic packaging they send their trackwork in then they might be encouraged to collect them from modellers (think the much mentioned glass bottle deposit / refund schemes in operation in various countries) and re-use it.

Edited January 3, 2018 by phil-b259

[APOLLO]

Here in sunny (!!!) Wigan we have 4 bins.

 

Green = Compostable rubbish - Garden waste, food scraps, food scraps in bio-degradeable bags (supplied by the council). Collected every 2 weeks

Blue = Paper & cardboard - Paper type drinks containers. Collected monthly.

Brown = Glass bottles, Tin cans, Plastic trays bottles etc (no hard plastics or bags). Collected every 3 weeks.

Black = Everything else -  Landfill Collected every 3 weeks

 

The system seems to work, council have built new re cycling plant along with other adjoining councils. I don't know if any is incinerated / recyclable goes to landfill  etc.

 

For me most plastic packaging is a disgrace. If it is used to store a (valuable) product (model locos etc) then OK. If it is designed to instantly throw away upon opening then ban it. (especially the hard to get into the bubble pack stuff). Bio-degradable see through plastic can be used. Throw away polycarbonate bottles are also a disgrace. I don't know the answer to replace these (water bottles etc) as heavier glass perhaps wouldn't be acceptable.

 

All throw away type packaging should by law be made bio-degradeable where possible.

 

Last year a new container train started to run through Wigan Wallgate. It takes Liverpool's waste from Knowlsley to Middlesbrough to be incinerated there.

 

http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/business-news/taking-shape-teessides-latest-energy-from-7969721

 

http://www.bulkmaterialsinternational.com/htm/w20160707.288056.htm

 

Why can't this be burned in Liverpool (at the nearby soon to be closed Fiddlers Ferry power station).? 

 

Why are wood pellets processed in Louisianna, taken by train to a port, shipped across the Atlantic to Liverpool, loaded into Swish new trains for the long and indirect journey to Drax in Yorkshire, stored then burned as a so called "Green" fuel ?. (if you want a model they're £83 a pop for 5 penceworth of plastic (including packaging) !!!

 

Brit15

Edited January 3, 2018 by APOLLO

[Enterprisingwestern]

The root of the problem though is that we should be looking at ways of cutting down on our production of waste in the first place. Take your own takeaway cup into the coffee shops, (and before you poo poo the idea, try it, it works), re-use containers etc, (although I suspect we modellers are pretty good at doing that in the first place), force/encourage manufacturers not to overpackage things, eg, a plastic container inside a box with a plastic wrapping round it, and primarily, except in exceptional circumstances, make all packaging recyclable or bio-degradable so very little virgin material is used.

Some of the above will no doubt increase prices, so what, if we are slowly poisoning ourselves, what is the cost of that?

Somebody in the world needs to get a grip.

 

Mike.