RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) Why? questioning without knowledge is not a good trait but happens too often on here! Certainly on the one they have used as a prototype https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e3f0437d9 as are the absurd ventilators Paul That seems a bit harsh. I will be removing mine if possible as they weren't always fitted. Rob. Edited August 1, 2018 by NHY 581 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2018 Why? questioning without knowledge is not a good trait but happens too often on here! Certainly on the one they have used as a prototype https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e3f0437d9 as are the absurd ventilators Paul Sorry, am I missing something - what's absurd about the ventilators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Why? questioning without knowledge is not a good trait but happens too often on here! Certainly on the one they have used as a prototype https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e3f0437d9 as are the absurd ventilators Paul Paul, The ventilators are absolutely fine - see my earlier post in this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129879-lner-toad-b-20t-brake-van-announced/page-2&do=findComment&comment=3041372 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Why? questioning without knowledge is not a good trait but happens too often on here! Certainly on the one they have used as a prototype https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e3f0437d9 as are the absurd ventilators Paul Sorry paul, what I maybe should have said was most if not all bodyside lamps were removed in BR days, I did look through your site and other sources when I was building a Parkside wooden ducket van and the photos showing the side lamps look to be very early 50s judging by the background detail and with no date to confirm either way it was a surmise, right or wrong. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Paul, The ventilators are absolutely fine - see my earlier post in this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129879-lner-toad-b-20t-brake-van-announced/page-2&do=findComment&comment=3041372 I know they are correct. The absurdity is the strange high design. I acknowledge these were a LNER standard used on their other brake vans but appear unusual and old fashioned, most coaching stock introduced in the 1930s had much lower roof ventilators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) Sorry paul, what I maybe should have said was most if not all bodyside lamps were removed in BR days, I did look through your site and other sources when I was building a Parkside wooden ducket van and the photos showing the side lamps look to be very early 50s judging by the background detail and with no date to confirm either way it was a surmise, right or wrong. Dave. Dave perhaps that is what you should have said, but we don't know when this happened and it seems likely that most had them as they went into BR use and they were removed during the 1950s. The van photo I unnecessarily shared with the world has correct BR lettering, both in style and being Gill sans medium - which some workshops don't seem to have adopted until later 1949 and then it is clearly worn, so I would suggest the photo is 1952 onwards. It is not alone, https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e2e8d6bd6 You The link above is to an interesting photo of one with vacuum pipe. I also have a photo of one so equipped https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e31e12fc4 but even Peter Tatlow says he knows nothing about these and is rather dismissive of them. Wagons exist in a time continuum, slowly evolving until the grim reaper appears so I do get upset when this is dismissed. As with every single model the companies make, or we make/modify/paint/weather they can only be as they existed at one place in time. Presumably, if Hornby find the model is successful we can expect some other models depicting different time periods - whether they correct the lamps we will have to wait and see. It is a well chosen prototype with a long life and many different appearances. In the meantime certainly remove them especially if later BR is being modelled. Paul Edited August 1, 2018 by hmrspaul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2018 I know they are correct. The absurdity is the strange high design. I acknowledge these were a LNER standard used on their other brake vans but appear unusual and old fashioned, most coaching stock introduced in the 1930s had much lower roof ventilators. I was under the impression that the later, lower profile, torpedo ventilators had to be fitted to coaches to keep them within the loading gauge as coach roofs got higher with the introduction of more modern designs, but with wagons (and brake vans) that wasn't a concern so the older, taller design continued to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I was under the impression that the later, lower profile, torpedo ventilators had to be fitted to coaches to keep them within the loading gauge as coach roofs got higher with the introduction of more modern designs, but with wagons (and brake vans) that wasn't a concern so the older, taller design continued to be used. They lower profile ventilators appear to have been introduced at the time Gresley took over as C&W Superintendent of the GNR, when clerestories were replaced by the now familiar, trademark even, high domed roof - the GNR had a very generous loading gauge but it was not that generous. The new type of ventilator was also adopted for ECJS carriages from then on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Dave perhaps that is what you should have said, but we don't know when this happened and it seems likely that most had them as they went into BR use and they were removed during the 1950s. The van photo I unnecessarily shared with the world has correct BR lettering, both in style and being Gill sans medium - which some workshops don't seem to have adopted until later 1949 and then it is clearly worn, so I would suggest the photo is 1952 onwards. It is not alone, https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e2e8d6bd6 You The link above is to an interesting photo of one with vacuum pipe. I also have a photo of one so equipped https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e31e12fc4 but even Peter Tatlow says he knows nothing about these and is rather dismissive of them. Wagons exist in a time continuum, slowly evolving until the grim reaper appears so I do get upset when this is dismissed. As with every single model the companies make, or we make/modify/paint/weather they can only be as they existed at one place in time. Presumably, if Hornby find the model is successful we can expect some other models depicting different time periods - whether they correct the lamps we will have to wait and see. It is a well chosen prototype with a long life and many different appearances. In the meantime certainly remove them especially if later BR is being modelled. Paul I'd guess the 1950 Rule Book may be a clue here ( without my copy to hand ) and standardisation of side lamp meaning : the presence of a FIXED side lamp in daylight does not help a signalman determine whether a train is complete and I presume the LNER Rule Book only necessitated a single TAIL lamp to be in place ...... conversely the Southern considered a pair of ( removable ) side lamps to be adequate without the need for a third lamp ....... if I remember correctly, a full set of three - REMOVABLE - lamps was required from 1950. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I know they are correct. The absurdity is the strange high design. I acknowledge these were a LNER standard used on their other brake vans but appear unusual and old fashioned, most coaching stock introduced in the 1930s had much lower roof ventilators. The 'Toad' design was based on the NER V4 Van, which had the same basic layout and, yes, was fitted with the same type of ventilator. With general service freight rolling stock being designed in former NE drawing offices and built at NER workshops, change would not come for as long as it could be resisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu4472ke Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I think I may pick up a BR one as well although I suspect they were rare on the Southern Region. On that note, it was common to find a wagon out of region in the days of the big 4, (E.G LNER wagon in wales) but did the same happen with brake vans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 On that note, it was common to find a wagon out of region in the days of the big 4, (E.G LNER wagon in wales) but did the same happen with brake vans? Simply, no to the last question. However a through working between home company areas that traversed 'foreign' metals might retain the home company's brake van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 G'Day Folks I have always wondered why ventilators were fitted to brake vans, with the amount of freezing air coming under the doors, (regardless of what time of year it was) they were the last thing they needed. manna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 G'Day Folks I have always wondered why ventilators were fitted to brake vans, with the amount of freezing air coming under the doors, (regardless of what time of year it was) they were the last thing they needed. manna Unfortunately, we'll not be able to see Hornby's detailed rendition of old newspapers stuffed into vents, under doors etc. ........................... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 G'Day Folks I have always wondered why ventilators were fitted to brake vans, with the amount of freezing air coming under the doors, (regardless of what time of year it was) they were the last thing they needed. manna Perhaps they provided the air supply to help the coal in the stove burn properly, to keep the guard warm from the freezing draughts and so he could heat his tea and so on? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 BR version R6834 has arrived with Kernow according to their newsletter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 BR version R6834 has arrived with Kernow according to their newsletter Actually the email says; "Hornby has let us know that the following items will be with us within the next week of two:" So not far away. Mark in OZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Dave perhaps that is what you should have said, but we don't know when this happened and it seems likely that most had them as they went into BR use and they were removed during the 1950s. The van photo I unnecessarily shared with the world has correct BR lettering, both in style and being Gill sans medium - which some workshops don't seem to have adopted until later 1949 and then it is clearly worn, so I would suggest the photo is 1952 onwards. It is not alone, https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e2e8d6bd6 You The link above is to an interesting photo of one with vacuum pipe. I also have a photo of one so equipped https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e31e12fc4 but even Peter Tatlow says he knows nothing about these and is rather dismissive of them. Wagons exist in a time continuum, slowly evolving until the grim reaper appears so I do get upset when this is dismissed. As with every single model the companies make, or we make/modify/paint/weather they can only be as they existed at one place in time. Presumably, if Hornby find the model is successful we can expect some other models depicting different time periods - whether they correct the lamps we will have to wait and see. It is a well chosen prototype with a long life and many different appearances. In the meantime certainly remove them especially if later BR is being modelled. Paul The vacuum pipe is painted white suggesting a through pipe and the pipe running on the outside of the van suggests a later addition! Mark Saunders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTrucks Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 R6834 in BR grey now available to purchase on the Hornby website. R6834A and the two LNER versions are shown as November delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Derails Models Posted October 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2018 R6834 in BR grey now available to purchase on the Hornby website. R6834A and the two LNER versions are shown as November delivery. Yes R6834 arrived with us this morning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liddy Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Delighted to recieve an email this afternoon confirming my pre-order with Hattons has been processed. Looking forward to getting E175712 Monday/Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi Rob, nothing about the why's and wherefores of the model but a question about the photo. This would appear to be The Wenford Bridge Branch. Do you have any details about the date or occasions please. The brake in the picture appears to be in bauxite indicating vac fitted I believe. I've only seen grey examples on the branch before. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi Rob, nothing about the why's and wherefores of the model but a question about the photo. This would appear to be The Wenford Bridge Branch. Do you have any details about the date or occasions please. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69736-pencarrow-nothing-to-see-move-along-please/page-5&do=findComment&comment=1003606 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Hi Rob, nothing about the why's and wherefores of the model but a question about the photo. This would appear to be The Wenford Bridge Branch. Do you have any details about the date or occasions please. The brake in the picture appears to be in bauxite indicating vac fitted I believe. I've only seen grey examples on the branch before. Thanks Through piped not fitted. As this one https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e31e12fc4 Paul Edited October 12, 2018 by hmrspaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2018 Hi Rob, nothing about the why's and wherefores of the model but a question about the photo. This would appear to be The Wenford Bridge Branch. Do you have any details about the date or occasions please. The brake in the picture appears to be in bauxite indicating vac fitted I believe. I've only seen grey examples on the branch before. Thanks It is the Wenford branch but no idea of the date time etc or photographer. Apologies for lack of help Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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