LNER 'Toad B' and 'Toad E' 20T Brake Van announced

[NHY 581]

Further to the above, this link gives an idea of timeframe.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99346-boscarne-brake-van-identification/

 

And another photo. Copyright, John Ball.

 

 

Rob.

[RichardS]

It is the Wenford branch but no idea of the date time etc or photographer. Apologies for lack of help

 

 

Rob.

Not a problem and simply posting it has been a help. Don't apologise; so many old pictures have no info.

 

Edit, and just seen your second post with the other picture. Thanks. One thing I notice is that there are three tail lamps fitted. The ongoing use of the lamp brackets generally was one factor being discussed in the thread for the new Hornby RTR version of the LNER Toad B/E.

 

Edit just realised this is that thread. Doh!

Edited October 15, 2018 by RichardS

[Clive Mark]

The Steaming Sixties 4 - "The Withered Arm in Cornwall" shows a bauxite coloured toad ...pages 35 and 39. The van has the later ducket.

 

Page 12 shows one coupled to a Southern Queen Mary !

Edited October 15, 2018 by Clive Mark

[JSpencer]

It's here:

 

 

 

One brake shoe fell off in transit but easy to fix.

[Porcy Mane]

 

One brake shoe fell off in transit but easy to fix.

 

Some bits have fallen off mine too.

 

 

One brake was dragging slightly but a little tweezer tweaking soon had some very free running wheelsets. Looks like all will be Ok for EM'ers to just drop in a set of Gibsons. Thank you Mr. Hornby for leaving for making the brake mouldings clip in and not resorting to gluing them in solid.

 

 

 

Did I say thank you to Mr Hornby for using very little glue during the assembly process. It makes things so much easier for those of us wishing to tinker, have a repaint,  and sort out out those little manufacturing compromises.

 

Thank You, Thank you.

 

P

Edited October 16, 2018 by Porcy Mane

[NHY 581]

Well that didn't take long......

[Pint of Adnams]

The above images are all of Toad Es with the steel ducket as originally fitted equipment. The thread should have been named "LNER 'Toad B' and 'Toad E' brake vans announced".

[brossard]

First time I've seen an interior of sorts, nice.  To complete, some benches should be added.

 

John

[Pint of Adnams]

Some bits have fallen off mine too.

 

HornbyToadD-BV-001-editSm.jpg

 

One brake was dragging slightly but a little tweezer tweaking soon had some very free running wheelsets. Looks like all will be Ok for EM'ers to just drop in a set of Gibsons. Thank you Mr. Hornby for leaving for making the brake mouldings clip in and not resorting to gluing them in solid.

 

HornbyToadD-BV-008-EditSm.jpg

 

HornbyToadD-BV-009-Editm.jpg

 

Did I say thank you to Mr Hornby for using very little glue during the assembly process. It makes things so much easier for those of us wishing to tinker, have a repaint,  and sort out out those little manufacturing compromises.

 

Thank You, Thank you.

 

P

So the majority of body parts are painted/printed clear plastic. This always used to be more brittle than the usual styrene where e.g. lugs easily broke off  - is that the case with this model?

[JSpencer]

Some bits have fallen off mine too.

 

HornbyToadD-BV-001-editSm.jpg

 

One brake was dragging slightly but a little tweezer tweaking soon had some very free running wheelsets. Looks like all will be Ok for EM'ers to just drop in a set of Gibsons. Thank you Mr. Hornby for leaving for making the brake mouldings clip in and not resorting to gluing them in solid.

 

HornbyToadD-BV-008-EditSm.jpg

 

HornbyToadD-BV-009-Editm.jpg

 

Did I say thank you to Mr Hornby for using very little glue during the assembly process. It makes things so much easier for those of us wishing to tinker, have a repaint,  and sort out out those little manufacturing compromises.

 

Thank You, Thank you.

 

P

 

Hmm ... A modern day CKD kit.

 

I,ve spotted one immediate error. It has Hornby stamped underneath, I'm fairly certain the real prototype never had that.

Edited October 16, 2018 by JSpencer

[Porcy Mane]

The above images are all of Toad Es with the steel ducket as originally fitted equipment.

 

Nice to see someones still awake.

 

 

So the majority of body parts are painted/printed clear plastic. This always used to be more brittle than the usual styrene where e.g. lugs easily broke off  - is that the case with this model?

 

No. Just the cabin end screens (painted on outside only) and the combined duckett/lockers/bench mouldings.

 

The ducket/lockers/bench moulding doubles up as the securing points for the two screws that retain the body to the chassis with the cabin floor being sandwiched between. The clear cabin screens were the only components that had an excess of adhesive applied, the roof recess that the end partition sits in was full and it took a bit of good bit of "jiggling and twisting" to brake the bond. 

 

Hornby have followed the cabin design of their earlier high detail Toad Es. I've found the clear plastic to be quite workable and haven't had any crack on me yet.

 

 

First time I've seen an interior of sorts, nice.  To complete, some benches should be added.

 

Even down to the square stove as shown on official drawings, as opposed to the later round type.

 

The Benches/lockers are present and are part of the ducket moulding. They are correct to official drawings unlike the earlier Hby Toad E, where if you are nutty enough to want benches you had to build them up around the duckett moulding. The earlier toad also had no stove but some variations of the Hornby brake van came with a rather nice representation of the Brake Vacuum gauge/pipe and valve inside the cabin. On the prototype this assembly was quite visible from the outside.

 

 

Hmm ... A modern day CKD kit.

 

I,ve spotted one immediate error. 

 

There are a few for a Toad running in BR period that cannot be put down to production compromises but they are easily sorted and I'd reckon that 99.9 % of punters will not be bothered by them. Despite being on original works drawings, there is no representation of a bodyside label clip for instance.

P

Edited October 16, 2018 by Porcy Mane

[Jub45565]

There are a few for a Toad running in BR period that cannot be put down to production compromises but they are easily sorted and I'd reckon that 99.9 % of punters will not be bothered by them. Despite being on original works drawings, there is no representation of a bodyside label clip for instance.

P

Well, I may be in the 0.1% but please keep us updated with your progress on finding and rectifying them!

[Daddyman]

Some bits have fallen off mine too.

 

HornbyToadD-BV-001-editSm.jpg

 

One brake was dragging slightly but a little tweezer tweaking soon had some very free running wheelsets. Looks like all will be Ok for EM'ers to just drop in a set of Gibsons. Thank you Mr. Hornby for leaving for making the brake mouldings clip in and not resorting to gluing them in solid.

 

HornbyToadD-BV-008-EditSm.jpg

 

HornbyToadD-BV-009-Editm.jpg

 

Did I say thank you to Mr Hornby for using very little glue during the assembly process. It makes things so much easier for those of us wishing to tinker, have a repaint,  and sort out out those little manufacturing compromises.

 

Thank You, Thank you.

 

 

You're replacing the handrails with wire I assume, Porcy? Problem is, it looks like the holes are too big once you've unplugged Hornby's handrails. My plan was to cut off the originals level with the body and re-drill. What do you think? 

[Porcy Mane]

You're replacing the handrails with wire I assume, Porcy? Problem is, it looks like the holes are too big once you've unplugged Hornby's handrails. My plan was to cut off the originals level with the body and re-drill. What do you think? 

 

 I'm debating with myself and procrastinating at the moment. I filled the hand rail holes on an earlier Hornby Toad E then drilled them 0.2 mm with a view to using  8 thou. guitar wire. Forming the all radii on the individual rails and and keeping them a constant match was a step too far so I resorted to 0.3 brass.

 

As it's so easy to remove the handrails I may initially leave them as is, in the knowledge that if the 0.5 mm rails start to bug me I can resort to a bit of filling and drilling. Hornby have managed to be correct to prototype and make the pair of smaller grabs either side of the duckett 0.3 diameter with the additional grab on the stove side correctly being slightly larger diameter. Once reassembled, if the difference  between the 0.3 grabs & the 0.5 handrails rankles me I'll get out the brass wire.

 

Another option will be to use 0.3 (blue) Mopok styrene rod as I still have a stash remaining from the 1970's.

 

These are the 0.2 mm holes in the Toad E.

 

 

Progress will be slow as I'm handicapped with other priorities at the mo.

 

P

[Daddyman]

I might do the same - repaint to LNER livery and leave the handrails until they rankle... 

[Pint of Adnams]

 I'm debating with myself and procrastinating at the moment. I filled the hand rail holes on an earlier Hornby Toad E then drilled them 0.2 mm with a view to using  8 thou. guitar wire. Forming the all radii on the individual rails and and keeping them a constant match was a step too far so I resorted to 0.3 brass.

 

As it's so easy to remove the handrails I may initially leave them as is, in the knowledge that if the 0.5 mm rails start to bug me I can resort to a bit of filling and drilling. Hornby have managed to be correct to prototype and make the pair of smaller grabs either side of the duckett 0.3 diameter with the additional grab on the stove side correctly being slightly larger diameter. Once reassembled, if the difference  between the 0.3 grabs & the 0.5 handrails rankles me I'll get out the brass wire.

 

Another option will be to use 0.3 (blue) Mopok styrene rod as I still have a stash remaining from the 1970's.

 

These are the 0.2 mm holes in the Toad E.

 

Hby-BV-Detailing-49-Edit1Sm.jpg

 

Progress will be slow as I'm handicapped with other priorities at the mo.

 

P

Is that a 'missing' bodyside label clip that I see in your photograph?

[it's-er]

On the handrails, and the difference between 3mm and 5mm, wouldn't it be easier to tone down the handrails with some judicious weathering? To my mind, the handrails stand out a bit in JSpencer's photos at 79 above (for which, thank you - it is really good to have them), but nothing that some weathering wouldn't deal with.

 

John Storey

[Porcy Mane]

Is that a 'missing' bodyside label clip that I see in your photograph?

 

Pedantically on that photo, no.

 

As it became a Diagram 1/504 that particular brake, which started as out a R6509 had the label clip sliced off from Hornby's standard central position under the ducket and stuck back on to match the van I was modelling.

 

So technically it's a repositioned clip.  

 

P

Edited October 18, 2018 by Porcy Mane

[MartinTrucks]

About 40 years ago I bought a Jidenco kit for a Toad E. A chap in my then railway club built it for me and I was going to paint and detail it. I have run it on and off over the past years but it has always looked wrong; maybe a bit too tall?.

 

My R6834 arrived today. I opened the box, looked at it, fitted Bachmann short straight couplings into the Hornby NEM pocket and gave it a run on a test oval. I looked at it again and am continuing to do so.

 

Perhaps I am a philistine for not immediately noticing any faults, but I think I am in love ...........  

Edited October 20, 2018 by MartinTrucks

[rovex]

Hmm ... A modern day CKD kit.

 

I,ve spotted one immediate error. It has Hornby stamped underneath, I'm fairly certain the real prototype never had that.

Have you got any prototype photos to back up that statement? Lol

[Nimbus]

I,ve spotted one immediate error. It has Hornby stamped underneath, I'm fairly certain the real prototype never had that.

 

Brings to mind the old Tri-ang Brush Type 2. I was tickled to find that that had a Brush builder's plate engraved under the battery box! 

(Wonder if Brush asked them to do that for publicity?)

 

The Nim.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Looks a lovely item altogether. My old Parkside kits, one built as a B, the other bashed into E form, will look very tatty alongside. The Hornby one will have to be a recently worked on/repainted specimen, the kit builds illustrating age and decay as a result of a hard life..

 

About 40 years ago I bought a Jidenco kit for a Toad E....it has always looked wrong; maybe a bit too tall?...

The van kits too. It is a while ago now, but my opinion was that something went awry between the drawing and the etch process, as dimensions on one axis were correct, and on the other axis overscale, approaching 5 percent 'growth' if memory serves.

[Tom F]

Regarding the Toad E, should the side lamps be the same colour as the body? I presumed they were  black? 

 

Easy job with a paint brush I should add!

Edited October 20, 2018 by 9793

[31A]

Regarding the Toad E, should the side lamps be the same colour as the body? I presumed they were  black? 

 

Easy job with a paint brush I should add!

 

Tom, this is a debate I've had with myself over many years when making models of LNER brake vans, going back to the original Tatlow "LNER Wagons" (pale blue dust jacket)

 

To my mind, in the official works photos in that book, the fixed side lamps are painted the same colour as the van bodywork.  I know we're talking about black & white photos but to my mind there is no difference in tone between the lamps and the body side, whereas there is a distinction between the body colour and the black ironwork (buffers etc.).  I don't imagine the ex LNER wagon works changed their practice in this respect after Nationalisation, but it's more difficult to tell with pictures of vans in service due to 'weathering' etc.

 

A more up to date reference however is on p.86 of Vol 3 of Geoff Kent's "The 4mm Wagon", in which the van at top left appears recently ex works and for my money, the lamp is painted the same colour as the van body, so I think Hornby have got it right.

 

Or for an on line reference see here, for example:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake

 

You might however like to think of a way of painting the lenses to look like glass (and ideally clear one side and red the other)  as they seem to have modelled them grey as well; if you think of a way I'd be interested to know as I've not really worked that out yet!

 

And depending on the period of your model, the fixed lamps seem to have been progressively removed some time after Nationalisation, and the corner lamp irons modified to carry BR standard removable side lamps instead, so that might be something else to consider .... 

 

Hope this helps!

[micklner]

The Toads on the above Bartlett  link the two shown on the first page carrying Lamps are not the same Grey , but a darker shade as is the ex GER Van carrying a Black lamp on the same page.

Edited October 20, 2018 by micklner