Motor Rail & Tramcar Co. Standard Gauge Locomotives

[decauville1126]

Which came first the standard gauge or the narrow gauge? The standard gauge 'tin-turtle' came first, but what about the other? Were the designs changed for 2 foot or the other way round?

Narrow gauge first with the 20hp 2-cylinder petrol locos, whose drive system was taken from the tramcars built for India. All is explained in the books.

[009 micro modeller]

Does anyone know what happened to the Wolverton loco and what it was used for? It looks very light to do any shunting at Wolverton.

[neal cooper]

I had a trip out to the Diesel Gala at Chasewater today, and with this thread in mind took what photos I could of these three locos. ‘15099’ (is this an ex Worthington loco mentioned earlier in the thread?) was giving brakevans rides. What a fantastic clatter they make on the move, with a klaxon for giving warning. Lovely loco!

[rue_d_etropal]

Just noticed on Locos n Stuff website that Mark Clark has done a chassis to fit my OO Simplex Tin Turtle. https://www.locosnstuff.com/Parts-and-accessories.php

I have not asked him, but based on his other items, I am sure he could fit longer axles, so a standard gauge version could be motorized. With bigger wheels the fully  standard gauge version could be motorized. Might also fit other small industrial locos.

Edited March 27, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[toffee]

How would we motorise the '0' gauge 3D body that's been discussed ? Has anyone tried ?

[rue_d_etropal]

I am not sure now, as having been in contact with Mark, I realise his chassis fits O16.5, not OO9. Still might be possible, but clearance for outside edge of wheels is not much. The proper standard gauge version would be easier, in theory.

[neal cooper]

How would we motorise the '0' gauge 3D body that's been discussed ? Has anyone tried ?

Well the answer to that is that ‘toffee’ and I have tried using Mark Clark at https://www.locosnstuff.com/ and his ingenuity to provide a chassis for rue_d_etropal’s body print. I received this lovely little thing through the post today. Toffee has one on the way too.

 

I just need to decide which prototype I’m modelling to complete the suspension/underframe modifications, decide if sprung buffers are worth adding, paint, add extra weight and get a 3D printed driver in the appropriate pose and i’m there. Oh, and build a layout to showcase it!

[Sandhole]

Well the answer to that is that ‘toffee’ and I have tried using Mark Clark at https://www.locosnstuff.com/ and his ingenuity to provide a chassis for rue_d_etropal’s body print. I received this lovely little thing through the post today. Toffee has one on the way too.

 

I just need to decide which prototype I’m modelling to complete the suspension/underframe modifications, decide if sprung buffers are worth adding, paint, add extra weight and get a 3D printed driver in the appropriate pose and i’m there. Oh, and build a layout to showcase it!

That is ruddy Stupendous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bit of plasticard and you've got the Motor Rail from Wirksworth quarry off my shots.

It's 7mm isn't it?

I'd love a motorised 4mm version!

                 C.

[sir douglas]

have you tried motorising it yet?

[neal cooper]

have you tried motorising it yet?

This is motorised! Mark has produced a very compact little power unit that is an interference fit underneath. It currently has a small amount of lead but there is room for more once I’ve done some other work. There will be enough power to shift itself and a few wagons provided enough weight can be added to get the required adhesion.

[PGH]

I can't say I'm as enthusiastic about these locos as others obviously are, the descriptions "motorised wagon" or (particularly in the case of some modified locos) "shed on wheels" come to mind.  However - moving quickly on ! - I have seen and photographed several over the years and perhaps the following photos may be of use to intending modellers.

 

 

 

RS12  Works No.460 of 1916 at ICI's Smalldale Plant, Peak Forest in 1965

 

 

 

Works No.1942 of 1919 at Tarmac Roadstone's Topley Pike Quarry in 1970

Supplied new here probably as a 4wPM but I noted it was fitted with a Gardner 4 cylinder diesel engine.  It was painted green including the frames.  By the time of my visit rail traffic had ceased and all track had been lifted except for the connection to the BR line.  The loco was dumped off the track and disposed of shortly after, presumably scrapped.  The sidings were later relaid and rail traffic resumed in 1974 with a couple of Ruston 0-4-0 locos.

 

 

 

Interior detail taken from the opposite side

 

I can post more photos if these are of interest.

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[NeilHB]

Lovely photos PGH - many thanks for sharing them. More photos are always welcome please :-)

Edited May 30, 2018 by NeilHB

[PGH]

 

 

Works No.1944 of 1919 at Synthite Ltd., Alyn Works, Mold in 1980

 

It replaced a similar loco (MR 2033/20) which had originally been Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway No.3 and still carried the oval L&Y plate on one side.  Comparing photos MR 1944 seems to have acquired the cab top extensions with windows from MR 2033.

In 1966 MR 1944 was noted painted green with brown (or faded red ?) frames.  In 1980 it was painted with red frames and buffer beams; black buffers; orange body above footplate; red oval Motorail plates on ends; silver roof and radiator (inside cab); dark blue inside of cab.  It was acquired for preservation by Ian Jolly.

 

 

 

RS9  Works No.2024 of 1920 at ICIs Smalldale Plant, Peak Forest in 1965

                                         

Painted cream; black numbers; red buffer beams (this also applies to MR 460 in the previous post).  The adjacent hopper wagon gives a good indication of the small size of these locos.  Note that the end castings have been cut in half and refitted at 90 degrees.

 

 

 

Works No.2036 of 1920 at Ashwood Dale Quarry, Buxton in 1967

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[Dava]

If Nick Park had put a loco on the moon for 'A Grand Day Out' it would have looked like a Peak Forest Simplex.

For Wallace & Grommet aficionados.

[PGH]

This one I know nothing about it other than it resides at the Foxfield Railway.

MRTC002.jpg.

 

Details are in the book by W.J.K.Davies referred to in Post #10:

 

 

It covers both narrow and standard gauge locos, its apparently still available from Plateway Press and well worth getting for anybody interested in these locos.

 

According to the book Works No.2262 was built for stock in 1923 as a prototype for a new design which may have proved too expensive for customers who wanted a cheap standard gauge shunter.  It was eventually sold in 1929 (W.J.K.Davies speculates it may have gone rather earlier in 1925) to the Cornforth Limestone Co.Ltd. in Durham where it was converted to diesel in 1934.  In 1949 it was sold via dealer G.W.Bungey to the Dunlop Rim & Wheel Co.Ltd., Coventry.  It went to the Foxfield Railway in 1968.

 

 

 

At Foxfield in 1994.  It was later (maybe still is ?) painted yellow.

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[PGH]

 

 

Works No.3730 of 1925 at Craig Lelo Quarry, Gwyddelwern near Ruthin, in 1965

Disused since rail traffic ceased here in 1954, it was painted green with red buffer beams

Delivered here from new it appears to be unmodified as original and complete with the starting handle. 

 

 

 

Works No.3786 of 1925 at A.P.C.M., Dunstable Cement Works in 1969

Not ideally placed for a photo, it was painted with a blue frame and end castings; yellow cab; black block buffers and buffer beams and fitted with Gardner 4 cylinder diesel engine.  According to IRS Records it was originally ordered by the GWR in 1923 but not delivered.  It was scrapped shortly after this photo was taken.

This really is a shed on wheels !

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[rue_d_etropal]

I am sure I have seen a picture of another of these locos like Helen  on a demolition train (Ringwood Hampshire line). I am sure it says it is a different loco.

Also in the book there is a drawing, but it is not the same loco, as cab doors different and it says it is for metre gauge. Would like to do a model of it.

 

I would like to do any of the standard gauge Simplex locos with different cabs. I really need to get down to ELR and measure up theirs, especially as it is reconned to have been the last one built. It is mainly used to haul steam locos out of shed, but often slips. It has the power , just not heavy enough.

Pity some seem to find yet another big(and often broken down) steam loco more interesting than some small, working, ex industrial locos. Last weekend ELR had a 40s theme weekend, but no steam locos as they were all broken down.

Edited May 31, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[Sandhole]

 

1944.6330 Synthite © PGH.jpg

 

Works No.1944 of 1919 at Synthite Ltd., Alyn Works, Mold in 1966

 

 

1944.31334 Synthite © PGH.jpg

 

The same loco in 1980

 

 

1944.35306 Synthite © PGH.jpg

 

and (just to cover all angles) again in 1983

 

It replaced a similar loco (MR 2033/20) which had originally been Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway No.3 and still carried the oval L&Y plate on one side.  Comparing photos MR 1944 seems to have acquired the cab top extensions with windows from MR 2033.

In 1966 MR 1944 was noted painted green with brown (or faded red ?) frames.  In 1980 it was painted with red frames and buffer beams; black buffers; orange body above footplate; red oval Motorail plates on ends; silver roof and radiator (inside cab); dark blue inside of cab.  It was acquired for preservation by Ian Jolly.

 

 

2024.5627 ICI Smalldale © PGH.jpg

 

RS9  Works No.2024 of 1920 at ICIs Smalldale Plant, Peak Forest in 1965

                                         

Painted cream; black numbers; red buffer beams (this also applies to MR 460 in the previous post).  The adjacent hopper wagon gives a good indication of the small size of these locos.  Note that the end castings have been cut in half and refitted at 90 degrees.

 

 

2036.8533 Ashwood Dale © PGH.jpg

 

Works No.2036 of 1920 at Ashwood Dale Quarry, Buxton in 1967

 

Your mortality must have been brought home when you shunted hopper wagons at Peak forest!!!!! Bearing in mind you only had a hand brake!!

I've only ever driven narrow gauge Motorrails, but mine had the best maintained hand brake I've ever seen!!

I take it that PGH has seen these beasts work, I only ever saw them dumped? in a siding alongside the road bridge at Peak Forest.

                                                         C.

[5050]

Great Photos PGH.  Is Craig Lelo Quarry the one a mile or two outside Ruthin on the way to St Asaph?  There was an ungated level crossing, coming from Ruthin the quarry and related buildings was on the left and to the right a line stretched across the fields with no trace of ballast and the sleepers seeming to stand on the bare earth like a length of Setrack!  I'm sure I've seen a photo of this line with the rails held apart with lengths of steel rod or similar.  I reckon a MR was probably the only type of prime mover that the track would support!

[PGH]

I am sure I have seen a picture of another of these locos like Helen  on a demolition train (Ringwood Hampshire line). I am sure it says it is a different loco.

Also in the book there is a drawing, but it is not the same loco, as cab doors different and it says it is for metre gauge. Would like to do a model of it.

 

There was a second loco similar to 2262, also built for stock as Works No.2263 of 1923.  It was sold as Works No.4169 of 1927 to Agwi Petroleum Corporation Ltd., Fawley Oil Refinery, Hampshire and converted from petrol to diesel in 1939.  It was sold to dealers Joseph Pugsley & Sons Ltd. at an unknown date before 1957, then to Shakespeare Simpson & Cook Ltd., Somercotes, Derbyshire in 1959.  So it could well have been used by demolition contractors after it left the oil refinery.

 

A third standard gauge loco Works No.2293 of 1923 was ordered by agents Jones Burton & Co.Ltd. and despatched to Iquique, Chile.

 

The fourth 65hp loco Works No.4208 of 1928 was built to metre gauge and of slightly different appearance, although the same 16t weight as the previous standard gauge locos, again through agents Jones Burton with the shipping destination Antofagasta, Chile.

 

(Info from Industrial Railway Society Records)

[PGH]

Great Photos PGH.  Is Craig Lelo Quarry the one a mile or two outside Ruthin on the way to St Asaph?  There was an ungated level crossing, coming from Ruthin the quarry and related buildings was on the left and to the right a line stretched across the fields with no trace of ballast and the sleepers seeming to stand on the bare earth like a length of Setrack!  I'm sure I've seen a photo of this line with the rails held apart with lengths of steel rod or similar.  I reckon a MR was probably the only type of prime mover that the track would support!

 

No, Craig Lelo was south of Ruthin on the line to Corwen, approximately 2/3 of the distance from Ruthin.  The quarry you are thinking about is the Ruthin or Craig-y-Ddywart Quarry. 

 

By the time of my first visit in the early 1960s the quarry had been closed for some time and the loco was securely locked in the shed, so I never did get to see it.  However it was a Motorail Simplex loco Works No.2021 of 1920.  It was supplied new here and replaced a rather mysterious 0-4-0 vertical boiler loco, of which a drawing (probably more of a sketch from memory)  appeared in a letter to the Model Engineer Magazine in 1943.

The photo of the track was in a letter by J.I.C.Boyd to the Railway Modeller in July 1956.  You must have a good memory 5050 to remember that, I've got the actual page !

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by PGH

[5050]

Yes, that's the one.  We used to go past when we went to Rhyl for the day.  I'm sure I remember seeing a wagon parked up once somewhere near to the car and this would have been in the mid/late 50's. One of those oddball things that stick in your mind.  I must look it up on old maps.  Do you have any other photos of the site?

 

I'll have seen the Boyd photo relatively recently when trawling through the old bound mags in the club library.  I recognised the location straight away when I saw it.

[rue_d_etropal]

There was a second loco similar to 2262, also built for stock as Works No.2263 of 1923.  It was sold as Works No.4169 of 1927 to Agwi Petroleum Corporation Ltd., Fawley Oil Refinery, Hampshire and converted from petrol to diesel in 1939.  It was sold to dealers Joseph Pugsley & Sons Ltd. at an unknown date before 1957, then to Shakespeare Simpson & Cook Ltd., Somercotes, Derbyshire in 1959.  So it could well have been used by demolition contractors after it left the oil refinery.

 

A third standard gauge loco Works No.2293 of 1923 was ordered by agents Jones Burton & Co.Ltd. and despatched to Iquique, Chile.

 

The fourth 65hp loco Works No.4208 of 1928 was built to metre gauge and of slightly different appearance, although the same 16t weight as the previous standard gauge locos, again through agents Jones Burton with the shipping destination Antofagasta, Chile.

 

(Info from Industrial Railway Society Records)

Thanks, could not find photo.The Ringwood line was I think connected to a fuel depot, not that one. In same area though.

Frustrating thing is that book only has drawing for the metre gauge one, yet it is described as same length I thnk, but is obviously different body proportions. Does anyone have a drawing of the standard gauge ones.

[Mike Storey]

On the old Lowestoft sleeper depot, three foot gauge railway, I knew (and saw for myself when about 6) there was a Ruston diesel, called Monty, but I have read that there was also a 1920 Motor Rail Simplex diesel too, but I have never been able to find a picture of it, and certainly never saw it (I presumed it had long expired before my time).

 

Has anyone else heard of this, or even has a picture?

[PGH]

On the old Lowestoft sleeper depot, three foot gauge railway, I knew (and saw for myself when about 6) there was a Ruston diesel, called Monty, but I have read that there was also a 1920 Motor Rail Simplex diesel too, but I have never been able to find a picture of it, and certainly never saw it (I presumed it had long expired before my time).

 

Has anyone else heard of this, or even has a picture?

 

The loco was numbered 2 and named BILLY, a petrol Simplex Works No.1905 and supplied new to the Great Eastern Railway for use at the depot in 1920.  It was scrapped when the depot closed in 1964.  There was a standard gauge Simplex supplied at about the same time numbered 1.

 

This info is from the IRS East Anglia Handbook and it gives references to two articles in the Narrow Gauge Railway Society's magazine.  I'll look them up and let you know if they include any photos of the loco.