Derwent Spa

[Rowsley17D]

A couple of weeks ago I got some etches of Williams' point levers to replace the white metal ones I had broken off in the shed area. They are very small parts.

 

The handle is the wrong way round which was later corrected.

 

First the baseplate is folded.

 

Then the gusset plate is inserted from below.

 

The handle bracket is folded and inserted from below too. All is held together with gel cyano.

 

 

The lever was glued in place then painted.

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Rowsley17D

[lezz01]

They look great Jonathan. Where did you get them please I need some for Tewkesbury.

Regards Lez.

[Rowsley17D]

1 hour ago, lezz01 said:

They look great Jonathan. Where did you get them please I need some for Tewkesbury.

Regards Lez.

 

They are from Roxey Mouldings, Lez.

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/category/87/4mm-scale-00-gauge-southwark-bridge-models-accessories/

 

You get 4 in a packet. There's a couple of spare lever handles too. The instructions say to use 0.3mm wire for bolts in the base and to fix the handle but I used glue and didn't bother with the bolts. Besides I have no 0.3mm brass wire nor a 0.3mm drill bit (all broken!)

[Graham T]

I don’t suppose you know of anyone who sells individual drill bits do you?

 

[Rowsley17D]

Is this any use, Chris?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124871526517?

[Graham T]

Excellent, thank you.

 

[lezz01]

4 hours ago, Rowsley17D said:

 

They are from Roxey Mouldings, Lez.

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/category/87/4mm-scale-00-gauge-southwark-bridge-models-accessories/

 

You get 4 in a packet. There's a couple of spare lever handles too. The instructions say to use 0.3mm wire for bolts in the base and to fix the handle but I used glue and didn't bother with the bolts. Besides I have no 0.3mm brass wire nor a 0.3mm drill bit (all broken!)

Thanks Jonathan!

I wonder if I can make them move with the switchblades.

Regards Lez.

[Rowsley17D]

11 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Thanks Jonathan!

I wonder if I can make them move with the switchblades.

Regards Lez.

 

Good luck with trying that, Lez. I had all on to make the things let alone making them move.

[Graham T]

12 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Thanks Jonathan!

I wonder if I can make them move with the switchblades.

Regards Lez.

 

If I remember rightly @Schooner has something similar on his Ingleford Wharf thread.

 

[Schooner]

This was a first trial, forgive the WIP groundwork:

 

https://severnmodels.com/epages/eshop1179816.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/eshop1179816/Products/D21&Locale=en_GB

 

No connection etc, just a satisfied (and repeat) customer. 

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Thanks Jonathan!

I wonder if I can make them move with the switchblades.

Regards Lez.

That could be interesting as they are one way levers.  That means you can only pull the lever in one direction to change the setting of the switches irrespective of which way the switches are standing when you pull the lever.  So -

1. Look at switches and see if the need to be changed (only necessary for a facing movement, trailing movements simply trail through the point and kick the switches over if necessary.  The switches will stay in the position to which the last trailing movement or operation of the lever set them.

2.  Pull then lever - rember it can only move in one direction

3. As you pull the lever check that the switches have responded are the closed one is properly closed.

4. Let go off the lever and it will return to the position it occupied before it was pulled. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by The Stationmaster

[lezz01]

Oh well it was just an idea. I don't see how I can replicate that sort of movement. I'd love to see what's going on under that lever. I don't suppose anyone knows where I can find a working one do they?

Regards Lez.

Edited August 18, 2023 by lezz01

[martin_wynne]

9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

That could be interesting as they are one way levers.  That means you can only pull the lever in one direction to change the setting of the switches irrespective of which way the switches are standing when you pull the lever.  So -

1. Look at switches and see if the need to be changed (only necessary for a facing movement, trailing movements simply trail through the point and kick the switches over if necessary.  The switches will stay in the position to which the last trailing movement or operation of the lever set them.

2.  Pull then lever - rember it can only move in one direction

3. As you pull the lever check that the switches have responded are the closed one is properly closed.

4. Let go off the lever and it will return to the position it occupied before it was pulled. 

 

 

 

 https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?resources/wynn-williams-patent-ground-lever-boxes.16/

 

[lezz01]

Cheers Martin. That makes it perfectly clear how that works nice.

Regards Lez. 

[The Stationmaster]

17 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Oh well it was just an idea. I don't see how I can replicate that sort of movement. I'd love to see what's going on under that lever. I don't suppose anyone knows where I can find a working one do they?

Regards Lez.

Plenty of working ones about to a similar basic design but they're all going to be in areas where you shouldn't be.  If you know someone in a suitable position i on a heritage railway or at a heritage site you should find some there.    Another way might be the next RMweb Members' Day at Didcot GWS although that probably won't be until next year unless Drew can stitch one together at short notice?

[lezz01]

It's cool mate. That drawing makes it all clear I know exactly how it works now......it's very clever isn't it? God those guys were good wern't they?! The guys in the development offices were really on it weren't they?! You know back in the day I mean? I wonder how much the over centre spring was loaded to......? You know that really is very very clever.........Wow!!! When was that built? First I mean! Is it Victorian or Edwardian?

Regards Lez. 

[Tortuga]

On 18/08/2023 at 22:32, The Stationmaster said:

That could be interesting as they are one way levers.  That means you can only pull the lever in one direction to change the setting of the switches irrespective of which way the switches are standing when you pull the lever.  So -

1. Look at switches and see if the need to be changed (only necessary for a facing movement, trailing movements simply trail through the point and kick the switches over if necessary.  The switches will stay in the position to which the last trailing movement or operation of the lever set them.

2.  Pull then lever - rember it can only move in one direction

3. As you pull the lever check that the switches have responded are the closed one is properly closed.

4. Let go off the lever and it will return to the position it occupied before it was pulled. 

Forgive my ignorance, but I’d assumed hand point levers lay in one direction when the blades were set for one road and in the other for the other road.

 

Did all hand point levers* operate in the way you describe? Was the different shape of the handles determined by manufacturer/company?

(*Apart from the types with a weighted handle and the type that had to be held over when set for the other route)

[The Stationmaster]

2 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Forgive my ignorance, but I’d assumed hand point levers lay in one direction when the blades were set for one road and in the other for the other road.

 

Did all hand point levers* operate in the way you describe? Was the different shape of the handles determined by manufacturer/company?

(*Apart from the types with a weighted handle and the type that had to be held over when set for the other route)

There are (still I think thanks to EWS's US imports), two types of handpoint lever - one way, and two way.   The terms can be a little confusing until you think of the way the lever has to be worked to change the points.  

Thus a one way lever is always pulled in the same direction irrespective of the position of the point switches and pulling it will move the switches to the opposite lie from whichever side they stood before you pulled the lever.

A two way lever is moved in two ways i.e. you have to move it in a different direction depending on which way you wish to set the points.  The most common type of two way lever was the 'turnover' type - rather like various designs used for model railways.

 

Over the years in Britain the one way lever became by far the predominant type.  During my career, spending a lot of time out on the working railway in various jobs the number of old fashioned two way levers I ever saw could be counted on the fingers of one hand (with some to spare).  No doubt one reason for their demise was because they were at ground level and they had a weight on the lever bar so they weren't easy to change..  I don't think they were normally trailable but I'm not certain on that.

 

This photo off the net shows the usual appearance of what I tended. to think of as akin to the traditional British pattern of two way lever

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BBDFEG/points-lever-on-old-docks-railway-uk-BBDFEG.jpg 

 

I understand that the US pattern hand switch levers installed by EWS are also a two way design and they are definitely not trailable (as at least one person has found our the hard way so I've heard)

 

One way levers have a spring and cam arrangement in the lever box (see drawing posted previously) so they are trailable.  Even a vehicle wheelset will kick the switches over and they will then stay in that position.  The other thing about one way levers is that there is a correct way round to install them - as in my photo below the lever should slope away from the heel end of the point.  This is done for safety reasons and to simplify use as it ensures that the person pulling the lever will be facing a shunting movement coming towards that point.  Thus he can readily handsignals another Shunter or directly to the Driver in order to control the movement.   You will occasionally find example of levers which have been installed the wrong way round - because the person doing the job didn't know better.  The photo shows an older style of curved' lever which seems to have been favoured by the GWR (and possibly others?) this makes the lever heavier and that ensures that it will always drop back to where it should be; modern levers seem invariably to be straight

 

 

Incidentally the one way lever box can be arranged to work asa spring poing point and very pften the ones that were like that hada foot pedal to make sure the point was held over against the spring.   rRegrettably a rare defect ina worn lever can result in the point working as a spring point and can (and in my direct experience did) lead to derailments because the point was not working as it should.

[Tortuga]

Thanks for an extremely informative and helpful reply Mike!

 

I have a feeling that the hand levers at Shallcross were originally the weighted two-way lever, but were replaced by one-way levers. I’ll have to check the photos so I get them the right side and the right way round!

 

Helpfully the fact they return to their original position means there’s no reason to make them move!

[Middlepeak]

I found this drawing in some papers within the LNWRS archive, which is rather odd as the prototype location was GWR. However, I think it relates to a lot of locations across BR so may be of some use.

 

 

Sadly from my perspective the levers at Friden were of a different design, with a straight operating arm that had a normal horizontal position, presumably because of tight clearances between running lines.

 

[Rowsley17D]

Looks like I'll have to paint the tops of my point lever handles black.

[Rowsley17D]

Back to the 2P. The High Level Kits' HiFlier arrived and I found it fits motor forward into the smokebox which means I can get some serious weight above the drivers and avoid the nose-heavy problem 4-4-0s usually have.

[lezz01]

High Level make great gearboxes that's for sure.

Regards Lez.

[Rowsley17D]

The decoder and stay-alive fit nicely into the smokebox with the rear facing gearbox in the front part of the boiler.

 

There's plenty of room in the firebox for lead.

[MrWolf]

That's going to be a very well sorted machine when finished. Manufacturers take notes!