Hornby Mark 3 coaches in 2018 catalogue

[Mister Rusty]

Looking through the new release images, I note that someone is not getting quality control, or proof-reading correct.

 

The seating units are all standard-class spacing, whether in first or standard class photographs.

 

Or is it that they do not intend using the correct units, for whatever reason?

With their current issues of reputation, they should surely be doing their utmost to achieve correctness in detail, at no cost in production terms.

Anyone else bought new stock with wrong seating?

 

I have resorted to buying second-hand units to achieve the correct seating format in both my HSDT(252)and HST(253) rakes as stock was supplied incorrectly.

I prefer to support Hornby wherever possible, but stupid errors, of which this is typical, merely underline a sloppiness that I expect to cease with this latest management line-up.

 

I hope that the Oxford multi-slide tooling will be used for the final retirement of the Lima tools. Mind, at least Lima got the number of Windows right.

I also expect the marketing people to run stock correctly in the adverts, and not in the continental manner.

 

Anyone else have similar views, or am I being too picky?

Edited February 25, 2018 by Sun Street

[bart2day]

Yup. I bought a GWR mk3 TS but it came with 2x1 seating as per first class, not 2x2 as it should be for standard. Doesn't ruin the model but it's a bit annoying when I look inside.

[gazwire]

Do people think that at long last Hornby will make a descent reproduction of the mark 3 after Oxford have shown the way. I fear, once again though that they'll just do a quick 'that'll do' job which would be a real shame as the class 87s look fantastic.

[tractor_37260]

Do people think that at long last Hornby will make a descent reproduction of the mark 3 after Oxford have shown the way. I fear, once again though that they'll just do a quick 'that'll do' job which would be a real shame as the class 87s look fantastic.

 

The Hornby ex Lima MK3's are based on HST trailer cars, whereas the Oxford Rail coaches are MK3A's - the loco hauled variant..........ideal for the 87 etc .................

 

 

 

quote @ Sun Street

 

"I hope that the Oxford multi-slide tooling will be used for the final retirement of the Lima tools. Mind, at least Lima got the number of Windows right."

 

Which MK3 coaches have the wrong number of windows ?     Using the wrong interior seating parts is just poor QC.......and shouldn't happen......

[Legend]

I think he was referring to the old short mk3s that only had 7 windows per side . I think these new ones st scale length date from 1999/2000. The TGS is an old Lima moulding but not the others that were new to Hornby at that time

[rembrow]

Hornby recently released the latest versions of their Mk 2d coach (ex Airfix), in blue/grey, however the second has the first coach body tooling and seating. This follows last years faux pas when a set of listed main range coal hoppers were produced with Railroad tooling. I thought they had employed someone in China to co-ordinate with the factories.

[royaloak]

Hornby recently released the latest versions of their Mk 2d coach (ex Airfix), in blue/grey, however the second has the first coach body tooling and seating. This follows last years faux pas when a set of listed main range coal hoppers were produced with Railroad tooling. I thought they had employed someone in China to co-ordinate with the factories.

Maybe they have but the person employed hasnt got a clue what they are looking at?

[Mister Rusty]

Legend,

Thanks, I was indeed referring to the 7 window 'shorties'

And they got away with it those days as we were so starved of choice and manufacturers.

Pete

[Mister Rusty]

Do people think that at long last Hornby will make a descent reproduction of the mark 3 after Oxford have shown the way. I fear, once again though that they'll just do a quick 'that'll do' job which would be a real shame as the class 87s look fantastic.

As Oxford are now tied in managerially with Hornby, how about the tooling being released as Hornby?

 

The following is not pointed at any single person.

As for loco or hst ie mk3 or mk3a, this is raging can of worms, and I would like it clarified.

What makes a 3 or a 3a? Buffers? Nope. Roof vents? Nope.

So, come on rivet-counters, guide us, instead of being so negatory, please.

We need an answer from someone who was there in the day, like me.

References gratefully received.

Bear in mind that the prototype hst stock had buffers and was Mark 3, but 3a is usually referred to as loco-hauled and 3 as hst from what I can see.

I am yet to find any accurate data.

I am building pertinent stock, not just chewing the fat.

Thanks

Pete

Edited February 14, 2018 by Sun Street

[royaloak]

Class 252 coaches were prototypes so dont really count although they were capable of being hauled and heated by any ETH loco but not by a HST power car.

 

For production mark 3s I suppose it was what version of train supply they had-

1000vDC= mark 3A or 3B loco hauled.

415AC 3 phase= mark 3 HST.

 

Then of course we get into the conversions, but I see it as what version of train supply they had when delivered.

[Mister Rusty]

Thanks for the clarification.

My understanding had been that the coaches were sanctioned before the hsdt locos were.

This caused me to assume that they were built to spec, and the locos designed to suit, but l can equally see that it would have been possible to create them as an homogenous set for test purposes. It was having the stock in prototype production that, in my view led to the short time from go-design to go-test.

It must be the best decision ever made by BR, surely?

[Mister Rusty]

Blooper

Previous post read as

Now Oxford are tied in with OXFORD

Should have read

Now Oxford are tied in with Hornby

 

The tooling slide image that was published showed multiple options of roofing, equipment bays, window arrangements to produce all options to that date, with the exception of class 252 (Thanks Royal Oak, good way to describe them).

The 252 set window units were mounted from the inside, thus no external frame, also doors were different. 3 roof vents each end, perpetuated into production, but seemed to be changed/ deleted randomly at build or overhaul.

The best way to create a 252 vehicle seems to be to use Jouef coaches and smooth the sides which leaves a fine lip around the aperture, placing the glazing appropriately near flush on re-assembly. This also gets rid of the paint guidelines, and the remnants on the door can be used to create the handle pocket.

I am modelling to the 3 foot viewing rule, not the slide rule.

Mind, I do work to half-mil on any mods. (Masochist? Moi? No, I model railways, just suffer anoraxia )

Edited February 25, 2018 by Sun Street

[royaloak]

You have to remember normal air con coaches have a motor alternator (MA) set which runs off the 1000vDC and produces a 3 phase supply for the coach systems (okay it isnt true 3 phase but its close enough) so once the prototype 252 had been built it was realised that the HST coaches would be fixed formation so it made sense to supply the coaches with the 3 phase supply directly from the power cars and do away with the unreliable MA sets.

[JSpencer]

The Hornby ex Lima MK3's are based on HST trailer cars, whereas the Oxford Rail coaches are MK3A's - the loco hauled variant..........ideal for the 87 etc .................

 

 

The Hornby ex Lima Mk3's have buffers. Hornby's own have push in buffers supplied like the old short versions had. They do look old on an HST set but easy to remove.

Edited February 16, 2018 by JSpencer

[robf]

The latest edition of Hornby Magazines states that Hornby are updating their Mk 3 coaches with NEM coupling pockets.  Close couplings will be factory fitted with the tension lock couplings supplied in the accessory pack.

 

I wonder if they will make the bogies available as a spare part to update older Mk 3s?

[Mister Rusty]

Will they resolve the seating issues? Very dark or opaque windows are not the answer.

[MGR Hooper!]

The latest edition of Hornby Magazines states that Hornby are updating their Mk 3 coaches with NEM coupling pockets.  Close couplings will be factory fitted with the tension lock couplings supplied in the accessory pack.

 

I wonder if they will make the bogies available as a spare part to update older Mk 3s?

This was the case last year too and then they decided against it in the end.

 

However Hornby's issues with the Mk.3 aren't really the couplings or the seating, it's the fact that they are Hornby Railroad spec and still command such a high price be it direct from Hornby or at the regular retailer discounts.

 

It's time they did what they should've done and followed up with a brand new range of Mk.3 coaches after they had released their Mk.1 and Mk.2E range. However with the Oxford Rail release I think they have missed the boat.

[MGR Hooper!]

Apologies for the delay in responding - we have confirmed that the Mk3 coaches will receive some updates, with the main addition being NEM couplings. They're minor (in comparison) but they'll be covered in the future - either here or in our blog.

 

Confirmed by Hornby. Sounds good. Finally the Mk.3 coaches are being updated with some better couplings. I wonder what the other minor updates are, honestly cannot think of other areas they can update (without major re-tooling) seeing a we've already gotten tinted glazing and interior lighting before.

 

Any guesses??

 

Also I hope they actually do cover this in a future blog.

Edited March 23, 2018 by MGR Hooper!

[43179]

The latest edition of Hornby Magazines states that Hornby are updating their Mk 3 coaches with NEM coupling pockets.  Close couplings will be factory fitted with the tension lock couplings supplied in the accessory pack.

 

 

wow   that'll be nice, (especially with the improved glazing they added a couple of years ago) even if it is perhaps 15 years late - 

I seem to remember a review of the then 'new' Hornby mk3s when they were first released questioning why they hadn't gone for NEM pockets and close coupling to start with with when this was clearly the direction models were heading. Got there in the end eh !

Edited March 24, 2018 by 43179

[Revolution Mike B]

The Hornby MK3s are exactly what they are, ex Lima tooling with a bit of improvement, hence why the TGS and the Sleeper coaches have different roofs to the rest of them. Despite their errors, they're still a better shape than the new Oxford ones due to the profile of the equipment boxes and narrow bogies! In an ideal world, it would be nice to have a Lima version with the Oxford gangway but until someone actually gets the coach right, or a Jouef one with better bogies and the Oxford gangways......we'll have to make do with what we've got!

 

And then it'll also depending on whether we're after HST trailers or loco hauled stock.

[phil-b259]

As Oxford are now tied in managerially with Hornby, how about the tooling being released as Hornby?

 

The following is not pointed at any single person.

As for loco or hst ie mk3 or mk3a, this is raging can of worms, and I would like it clarified.

What makes a 3 or a 3a? Buffers? Nope. Roof vents? Nope.

So, come on rivet-counters, guide us, instead of being so negatory, please.

We need an answer from someone who was there in the day, like me.

References gratefully received.

Bear in mind that the prototype hst stock had buffers and was Mark 3, but 3a is usually referred to as loco-hauled and 3 as hst from what I can see.

I am yet to find any accurate data.

I am building pertinent stock, not just chewing the fat.

Thanks

Pete

 

Look, can we stop this nonsense about Hornby and Oxford being the same thing or swapping stuff between themselves on a whim.

 

THEY ARE SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITIES - who just happen to share certain management personnel and where one has a taken a shareholding in the other.

 

No different to lots of other companies, both PLC and privately owned retailing anything from clothes to electrical components to processed meals.

 

In future, economies of scale or a more formal tie up with rearrangement of brands / market sectors may well be the outcome but at the present time Hornby and Oxford are two totally separate companies as regards their R&D, manufacturing and retail operations.

 

As such, then in future years we MAY see Hornby ditch their MK3 coaches for the recently tooled up Oxford ones, but it is premature to assume that will happen, nor to think it will necessarily happen 'soon'. Given the key decisions have to be made well in advance so as to secure production slots in Chinese factories (regardless of who 'owns' them) its likely to be 2020 before any radical change occurs

[gazwire]

A few weeks back I ordered the new, slightly re-tooled mark 3 coaches. I've just seen the pictures of the buffet car on the Hattons website and the red stripe at the top of the coach appears to be yellow, the same as the first class. If this is the case, I'm going to be so disappointed. The Hornby class 87s are fantastic but It'll be such a let down if those stripes are yellow.!

Edited September 25, 2018 by Andy Y

[Bob Reid]

Rather than sticking the boot into a few manufacturers, see this topic http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137740-Hornby-r4851-swallow-livery-mk3-trfb/&do=findComment&comment=3307427 for some explanation.

[gazwire]

Rather than sticking the boot into a few manufacturers, see this topic http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137740-Hornby-r4851-swallow-livery-mk3-trfb/&do=findComment&comment=3307427 for some explanation.

 

Thanks Bob, I don't want to stick the boot into manufacturers, hence my praise of the class 87. But honestly, it's just so poor. 

[Legend]

Rather than sticking the boot into a few manufacturers, see this topic http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137740-Hornby-r4851-swallow-livery-mk3-trfb/&do=findComment&comment=3307427 for some explanation.

But it is a pretty poor show, so I get the disappointment. Yes there may actually be a prototype with yellow stripe , but it’s pretty rare . Why would Hornby Model this and no other coach in an HST Pullman formation. I’ll bet they didn’t realise it was a relatively rare prototype . If they did realise , why would they think there was more of a market for this rather than a bulk standard buffet.

 

And then there’s the roof........