Guest Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 If you live in a house with no off-street parking, how do you connect the house to the car when the latter is parked 50 yards down the road? You don't buy an EV until the infrastructure is in place. Maybe that's lamp-post charging or a decent coverage of rapids where you can fill up now and again like you do a petrol car today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2018 I think that there is still a lot of arguments in favour of hydrogen. Historically the fact that most hydrogen was (and still is) produced using natural gas in an energy intensive process negated its green credentials however the rise of renewable energy is altering the economic case for clean hydrogen. The cost of providing a hydrogen supply infrastructure would be high but partly offset by leveraging investment to supply potential industrial users. Asian car manufacturers have invested heavily in fuel cell EVs and fuel cells are actually a very simple technology. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted February 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2018 You don't buy an EV until the infrastructure is in place. Maybe that's lamp-post charging or a decent coverage of rapids where you can fill up now and again like you do a petrol car today. So every terraced street in every town and village will be provided with sufficient electric charging points for every resident, even those with two cars, and that's before 2040? What happens with blocks of flats - how do their residents charge their cars? The infrastructure required is so huge, and the problems so vast, that i don't think it'll ever happen. Of course the government says that it will, but it's an easy way for them to satisfy the green lobby - they know it's so far ahead that it won't be their problem. And if it does occur, it will require considerable additional power sources - it's difficult to see what efficient ones can be built that will also satisfy the green lobby. No, I think that in 10 years time electric cars will be yesterday's thinking and we'll all be looking at hydrogen or some other source. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Could use one of these: http://www.eptender.com/ Hmm, I was thinking more along the lines of, say, a repurposed class 37 engine and generator/alternator set mounted on a lorry chassis. Could do lots at the same time and take about 5 minutes each:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 If you live in a house with no off-street parking, how do you connect the house to the car when the latter is parked 50 yards down the road? You'll then have the local gits who think it's funny to pull out the charger plugs on all the EVs overnight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 You'll then have the local gits who think it's funny to pull out the charger plugs on all the EVs overnight.... Or 'tripping' over a lead and suing the owner for damages. Where there's blame there's a claim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 In fairness given that slips, trips and falls remain one of the biggest causes of accidents there are good reasons why laying cables across floors etc is frowned upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 You'll then have the local gits who think it's funny to pull out the charger plugs on all the EVs overnight.... The cables lock on at both ends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The cables lock on at both ends... And the charging posts will be on the kerb side of the pavement so no wires to trip over either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) (Not saying that the R8 has Soundaktor, but Audi do fit it to other cars in their range. TTs maybe?) TT, TTS, S3; basically anything with a 4-cylinder engine which ‘should’ sound better. They work very well, mind! Convinces me my Golf GTI has a nice throaty roar! Edited February 12, 2018 by njee20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 TT, TTS, S3; basically anything with a 4-cylinder engine which ‘should’ sound better. They work very well, mind! Convinces me my Golf GTI has a nice throaty roar! The i8 makes some entirely synthetic brrrm brrrm noises. Because, £100k sports car with the three pot out of a Mini... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 So who's going to pay for all this? Most residential roads in Britain being dug up to provide new cabling and charging points, service stations being built and converted although having to retain petrol and diesel as well at least up until at least the late 2040s, rapid charging points being installed in public places, something or other (I can't think what) being installed so that tower block residents can charge their cars, new power stations being built to provide the energy (and we've seen how long it takes successive governments to make any decisions as to new power stations and the Greens will probably object if they're powered by anything other than renewables) .... And it's not as though it can be left until 2040 - if it's to go ahead, much of it is going to have to be in place by, say, the early to mid 2030s as if these plans are still in force most people buying new will by then presumably be buying electric cars. And presumably there's still going to have to be fuel oil produced for things like HGVs, trains, ships, planes, and so on as well as the remaining petrol and diesel cars. I still think it's pie in the sky to shut the green lobby up in the short term. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 The i8 makes some entirely synthetic brrrm brrrm noises. Because, £100k sports car with the three pot out of a Mini... Terrific car the i8, another model that demonstrates worthy needn't mean dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) We'd better hope that we stay friends with Russia as well, as North Sea gas production declines we will be ever more reliant on them for our power generation. Edited February 12, 2018 by PhilH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Lots of our natural gas is imported by ship as LNG (liquid natural gas) to the three main terminals, Milford Haven, Canvey Island & Grain. It is re-gassified and pumped into the national gas transmission system. The source of this gas is mainly Qatar, though some comes from Egypt, USA etc. Trouble is a ships cargo of LNG on the high sea in transit is still a saleable commodity (to the highest bidder) and cargoes have been regularly diverted - recently to Japan after the Tsunami disaster there took out nuclear electricity generation capacity - so even LNG isn't a "safe" bet. We are not buying gas from Russia just yet, but I believe contracts(!!) will be signed soon. Hydrogen is the perfect vehicle fuel - though there are questions re safety (Hydrogen being the lightest gas will easily seek out ways to escape - and will ignite / explode easily also). Manufacture also is costly, as much energy (electricity) needs to be put in the system to produce a similar amount of Hydrogen (energy wise). There is hydrogen fuel cell technology, quite a bit better, of which I know little about - could be the (an) answer - I don't know ? Petrol and diesel fuel is an easily made / transportable / stored and utilised LIQUID fuel of very high energy carrying capacity (think MPG). A very hard act to replace. Brit15 Edited February 12, 2018 by APOLLO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 You don't necessarily need hydrogen for a fuel cell, you can use a hydrogen carrier. Ammonia has a lot of merit, although in some ways that's almost as bad as hydrogen in risk management terms, less blow up-ish but highly toxic and corrosive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Terrific car the i8, another model that demonstrates worthy needn't mean dull. I'd like to borrow Polar's i8. But if I were buying something for that money I'd get a Tesla. Being a PHEV the i8 is neither one thing nor 'tother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The cables lock on at both ends... Never understimate human ingenuity when it comes to trying to destroy things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 So who's going to pay for all this? Oh I don't know, maybe the companies wanting to sell you electricity? Here's a nice shiny Instavolt rapid that suddenly appeared recently. They charge 35p per kWh and provide a rental income to whoever's land they put them on. Plus the land owner gets the opportunity to sell people stuff while they charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 BTW big big plus for Instavolt taking a contactless debit card on the their chargers rather than faffing about with a phone app or website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'd like to borrow Polar's i8. But if I were buying something for that money I'd get a Tesla. Being a PHEV the i8 is neither one thing nor 'tother. That being advantageous over long distances. I love the i8, I drove one, and was a bit underwhelmed. It felt like a futuristic Fiesta. Quick, for sure, but a real lack of ceremony about it. Louder Soundaktor needed! HUD is cool though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2018 As all this not inconsiderable infrastructure is building up to 2040 or thereabouts, which is in 22 years ish time, do we presume that all our eggs will be in the one basket no matter what new or better technology comes along? Look where car propulsion technology was in 1996. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 As all this not inconsiderable infrastructure is building up to 2040 or thereabouts, which is in 22 years ish time, do we presume that all our eggs will be in the one basket no matter what new or better technology comes along? Look where car propulsion technology was in 1996. Mike. What's so significant about 2006...? There is the general issue of assuming nothing ever changes and applying 2018 performance standards and expectations to every year that has gone previously or will in the future. A neighbour was berating our EV and the lack of charging opportunities until I pointed out when our houses were built you put your Austin Seven in the garage every night and everyone tended to their front garden, instead of complaining there's nowhere to park your two cars as the street is always full and the garage is full of junk and the front garden is overgrown instead of being block paved and put to better use. The electricity we use to charge is partly offset by changing to LED bulbs ( the entire downstairs total is now less than 100w ) and will only be an issue if everyone uses the supply at the same time and were certainly nowhere near to rationing charging times. Workplace charging is happening and if you bottom line makes that option cheaper then we'll be using it instead. Car ownership on an individual basis is only a relatively recent concept, and why invest in something that is basically used for transportation when it might be cheaper to summon one as an autonomous taxi...? That's the altitude that'll change before 2040... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted February 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2018 Car ownership on an individual basis is only a relatively recent concept, and why invest in something that is basically used for transportation when it might be cheaper to summon one as an autonomous taxi...? That's the altitude that'll change before 2040... I think there's some truth in that. Everything seems to change incredibly rapidly nowadays, which is why I think it's daft to consider spending an enormous amount on an infrastructure which may well be obsolete by 2040. In the more crowded parts of this island (which, according to forecasts, are going to become even more crowded) the idea of private transport as it is now may by then no longer be feasible. On the other hand, in the much less crowded parts, the idea of autonomous transport may not be feasible. That's one reason why it is absurd to regard what is good for one part of the country (usually London and the South East) as always also being good for the rest. Unfortunately, our politicians haven't yet realised that (or maybe just don't want to). DT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 And the charging posts will be on the kerb side of the pavement so no wires to trip over either. But if they are on the kerbside, how will the mummies in their 4 x 4s park on the pavement ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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