Track cleanliness

[Theo]

Is it reasonable to need to clean the track daily just to prevent dcc fitted locos from stopping every few inches, even on sections of track they've just transversed perfectly? I seem to spend to much time track cleaning (meths, cloth-wrapped spatula)? I've tried track magic, too, but it seems to evaporate before my eyes.

[Nigelcliffe]

Suggests either ( a ) you're not cleaning the track, but pushing dirt in circles, or ( b ) your locos have pickup issues, which could be actual pickups or the state of the tyre on the wheels, or the evenness of the track causing a wheel to lift.

 

Without more details, impossible to say what is going on. 

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Is it reasonable to need to clean the track daily just to prevent dcc fitted locos from stopping every few inches, even on sections of track they've just transversed perfectly? I seem to spend to much time track cleaning (meths, cloth-wrapped spatula)? I've tried track magic, too, but it seems to evaporate before my eyes.

I would consider that as unreasonable but I suspect that the use of methylated spirits might not be helping. I believe it leaves a non conductive residue.

 

The best and longest lasting results I have ever had were with the use of Goo Gone. At the time it was NOT available in the UK presumably because it did not conform with nanny state regulations. I cleaned my rails once and had no real problems afterwards apart from dust.

 

I also used a wheel cleaner involving a static brass wire brush that effectively cleaned any powered driving wheels. Not so good on unpowered wheels equipped with pick ups.

 

I have also found that brand new rail is covered in a greasy residue that very quickly picks up sufficient muck to cause problems.

[Gordon A]

An Isopropyl alcohol based cleaner or neat for regular cleaning.

 

I have also used Maplins switch cleaner.

 

I don't clean my test track 16ft x 9ft daily or even weekly in my modelling room.  Occasional cleaning seems to suffice.

The track is in regular use by myself and occasional visiting locos brought by group members.

The rail is mainly Hi nickel silver, phosphor bronze with some steel (Never again!).

 

Gordon A

[DCB]

 

Is it reasonable to need to clean the track daily just to prevent dcc fitted locos from stopping every few inches, even on sections of track they've just transversed perfectly? I seem to spend to much time track cleaning (meths, cloth-wrapped spatula)? I've tried track magic, too, but it seems to evaporate before my eyes.

 

Completely over the top.  You don't give any detail of what is getting dirty or what stock you run.  We use DC and a Relco and  we generally clean track every blue moon apart from a couple of crossing noses and one stretch where the sun shines through a window that need doing every few weeks.  That also applies on the outside branch except we don't use a Relco, the rain cleans it as long as the loco is heavy enough to break the surface tension. 

 

When I do clean it is with peco or similar track rubbers one is towed in a cast metal Brake van chassis behind a heavy 0-6-0T  A Dapol cleaner usually runs in vacuum mode and a magnet wagon trails to clear ferrous debris.  When I use a hand held rubber I clean the inside shoulder of the rails where the wheels run rather than the flat tops.  

 

We have used roller cleaners which use cleaning spirit but the track gets slippery and the layout is unusable for an hour on more and seems to get dirty again super quick 

 

However to avoid problems we have had a scrapping program for anything with traction tyres, any oil or spirit on the track plus traction tyres and or plastic wheels and there is a trail of black slippery gungy residue everywhere and locos which normally haul 12 coaches slip with 3.  We clean the loco wheels religiously when they won't go any more, every couple of years probably though some have been more than 5 years without a clean to avoid  bits like handrails breaking off in the foam cradle. I even take off tender pick ups to reduce drag without problems, though everything is Live frog.

 

DCC really should be less sensitive than DC but the reverse seems to be the case. 

 

The real answer is on board battery power. I have used it in the garden for 25 years or more and track cleaning becomes cleaning the occasional side of a rail head where flanges bind and removing twigs and slugs. 

[ROSSPOP]

I see you are from Bedfordshire Theo,

 

as a long time absent Bedfordian and a long time 4mm and now 7mm DCC kit build fanatic who does`nt use any `stay-alive` gubbins

 

I would say you have possibly poor track laying and poor loco pickup issues. (both aggravated by unsprung/compensated loco chassis) 

Poor pickups will cause arcing between pickups and wheels which will produce black gunge buildup.

 

So, select a length of track, clean it as you normally do. Select a loco, clean it, check all pickups are where they should be and are in constant contact with the wheel ( particularly if there is axle sideplay)

 

get yourself some Peco PL-64 Power Lube .....apply a TINY SPLIDGOEN of power lube to the backs of wheels/picups..... and see the massive improvement.....

 

and remember 90% of domestic dust is from human skin !! so when operating wrap up in a couple of bin bags !!!!

 

JOhn 

Edited February 14, 2018 by ROSSPOP

[Ian Smeeton]

and remember 90% of domestic dust is from human skin !! so when operating wrap up in a couple of bin bags !!!!

 

JOhn 

 

A chef I once employed really suffered when peeling onions.

 

His Grandmother once recommended wrapping his head in cling film, making sure to cover the eyes, nose and mouth as a cure. We only just got to him in time!!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[F-UnitMad]

If the track is being cleaned daily, & locos are still running as bad as you describe, then it isn't the track that's the problem.

No mention of wheel or pickup cleaning? Those are the next things to tackle. Oh and if you have any rolling stock with plastic wheels, change them for metal wheels.

[RAF96]

I clean my track as and when poor running dictates s form of maintenance is required, first step is to look at the dodgy loco then the track.

Rob

[Crosland]

If the track is being cleaned daily, & locos are still running as bad as you describe, then it isn't the track that's the problem.

No mention of wheel or pickup cleaning? Those are the next things to tackle. Oh and if you have any rolling stock with plastic wheels, change them for metal wheels.

 

This ^^^ Clean the track and give a loco a thorough clean (wheels and pickups). Does is run badly the next day and the day after? If not then start cleaning the wheels on all your stock before adding them back to the layout.

 

Where is the layout located?

[Phil S]

What type of track?  Nickel Silver or Brass or  coated steel or ? - affects conductivity and surface dirt / cleaning options

What gauge?  - affects weight applying pressure to your electrical contacts eg wheels and rails

What Code ? (height of rail > cross sectional area > conductivity)

What environment is your layout in?  what temperature, humidity, and airflow does it have - in a workshop shed or lounge?

What rolling stock wheels do you have - and do you clean THEM? - or let them put the  dirt back down ? (plastic or metal)

 

These are also important factors affecting your layout ... plastic wheels in particular - acquire a lot of gunge.

Cleaning options - A coarse sandpaper/abrahsive solid will create scratches which will then fill rapidly with dirt.

Some 'tempting' chemcals leave problems behind them!   Alcohol leaves a residue and so needs to be polished off (Tanglefoot® is very nice - but not for track cleaning .. but whilst track cleaning might be okay 8-)  Beware solvents that may dissolve other nearby materials.  WD40 'works' for its indended function of repelling water.. but then attracts dirt to itself.. so after instant gratification the result may be worse.  (Maybe try WD40, then rinse it off thoroughly with alcohol (Meths etc) and then polish that off without leaving lint.... to get back to where you started? 8-) )

 

Compared to the 'old days' of a starter set with a lighweight 0-4-0T running on coated steel rails with a low nalogue voltage for 'slow running' .. which was asking for a disaster and short interest in the hobby, modern locos have more pickups (except 0-4-0Ts) and even analogue starter sets probably have a (high frequency) pulse width controller - and efficient motors which don't need Battsee Power Station  ... but the coaches still usuall come with plastic wheels 8-(

[Andy Hayter]

One thing not mentioned.  No smoking in the layout room.  

[ianjeffery]

i have to clean my track almost daily too - but then mine is in a garage that gets quite cold ( and a little bit damp depending on the weather )

[w124bob]

On 2 dcc layouts track is rarely cleaned, loco and stock wheels only cleaned after a trip through the weathering shop and have no issues however both run American stock. English steam seems more prone to dirty track but again I've found pick design to be a dirt trap as it seems to rely on a very small contact area and fewer wheels. Both layouts are in loft rooms (not attic) . I do keep the programme track clean as reading CV's etc tends to use less volts.

Edited February 17, 2018 by w124bob

[Butler Henderson]

Sure I've mentioned this before but I was somewhat bemused why some track was absolutely filthy after exhibiting a dcc layout one weekend yet other sections were perfectly clean. It finally dawned on me the filthy track was where the only traction tyre fitted loco had run. All clean metal tyred stock and clean track and a dcc layout IME is no different to a dc layout in keeping things running okay.

[w124bob]

One thing not mentioned.  No smoking in the layout room.

 

B****r

 

[F-UnitMad]

B****r

6859857789_516c566fd7_b.jpg

Ah, the Minnesota Commercial. Excellent taste, Sir!!

 

Of course, I wish they still ran a slightly cleaner loco...

[Theo]

I feel I'm slowly improving running by thoroughly cleaning wheels, pickups, track, removing plastic wheeled stock, etc, and some locos (Bachmann 9F for instance) perform faultlessly even at very slow speeds. Main problem is with short wheelbase locos, in particular the dj 14xx which a) i can't get into to clean the pickups, b) it sometimes will only run when i press down on it and help it along, but judders, and c) it seems to rock on the rear driving wheels. I'm running peco fine scale track, zimo decoders and nce powercab. Any ideas? Sorry, but I'm not converting to battery power! Could ambient temperature be an issue?

[Crosland]

Does the 14xx have any form of compensation or is it a rigid chassis? If its rigid and rocking then it's probably losing contact momentarily.

 

Look at the Zimo docs to see how to build a stay alive, assuming there's space in the loco.

[Sir TophamHatt]

I don't think there is space for a Stay Alive.

If I remember correctly, I think it's hard to get inside the loco. The DCC chip goes in the boiler at the front but that's pretty much it for access.

 

Mine is similar. It'll stop, then re-start all by itself every 10cm or so, sometimes less.

 

Not figured out what it is yet. Tweaking some CV settings improved it for a while but not now.

 

A Bachmann pannier does similar so it may be the decoder (I have cheapy Hattons decoders in both).

[Theo]

I don't think there is space for a Stay Alive.If I remember correctly, I think it's hard to get inside the loco. The DCC chip goes in the boiler at the front but that's pretty much it for access.Mine is similar. It'll stop, then re-start all by itself every 10cm or so, sometimes less.Not figured out what it is yet. Tweaking some CV settings improved it for a while but not now.A Bachmann pannier does similar so it may be the decoder (I have cheapy Hattons decoders in both).

yes I have a similar problem. Changing ces has improved things but there is one point on the layout where it stalls, it seems to 'rock' on the rear driver at this point. Putting a straight edge along the wheel treads confirms about 0.5mm of misalignment, there in no compensation I can see

[Theo]

Has anyone fitted compensation to this Loco?

[Sunnysa]

Is it reasonable to need to clean the track daily just to prevent dcc fitted locos from stopping every few inches, even on sections of track they've just transversed perfectly? I seem to spend to much time track cleaning (meths, cloth-wrapped spatula)? I've tried track magic, too, but it seems to evaporate before my eyes.

If you can't make track magic work there is something wrong somewhere.

 

My layout is in an unlined tin shed and my rails are cleaned about every 4-5 months with track magic needed or not.

 

My cleaning method is T M in a CMX clean machine pushed (not pulled) around the layout.

 

BTW, some of my rolling stock has plastic wheels.

 

Cheer

Ian