End of shunting..

[62613]

For some reason, that was what was needed. Not that there should have been any doubt about ability to pass. Still, I got a trip to Sheels out of it! And ended up living there until 1998...

I managed to escape, after a couple of close shaves, at the end of Phase 3

[96701]

Chaffers Sidings was close to the school what I went to. It were a Grammar School. Maybe I spent too much time watching 10t coal wagons being shoved around by WDs and 8Fs that made more clanking noises than the troublesome trucks ever did.

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/chaffers_siding/index.shtml

[big jim]

At the risk of turning this thread into the grumpy old men's thread ☺ I have to agree with you Russ the railway is going downhill fast and is now run largely by people that can in no way be called railwaymen. The best thing that came out of privatisation for the staff was higher wages but this has attracted many people to the job that will never in any way be Railwaymen, people who would have been found out very quickly 30 years ago. But I guess that's progress! I'm just glad I got out of it last year.

Sorry rant over

Funnily enough I had a similar rant to control last night when I was trying to explain why I couldn’t relieve my train at Dovey jn as per the roster (for those who don’t know Dovey jn famously does not have any vehicular access other than by train) am I was asked ‘why would they have you showing as relieving there then?’ My reply being on the lines of ‘because they don’t have a clue sat in the warm office of quite how remote and inaccessible places are down here while they are tucked up at 3am in their warm beds and were having to work extra time to get the train to an accessible place to relieve!’ (i.e Machynlleth)

 

They also don’t quite grasp that the 90 miles between crewe and Machynlleth can’t be driven in a van in 90 minutes!

 

Rant over, as you were.........

[Rugd1022]

Loose shunting continued almost on a daily basis at Rugby upside until the week before the remodelling of the yard itself started around 2005/6, with the sheer amount of weekend work outstabled there it was the only way to get things done on time. A lot of the traffic at the time consisted of Coalfish and Sea Urchins which were easy to loose off under the footbridge where there was a slight dip and hump in the track. Our green carded shunt Driver (seniority date May 1956) knew exactly how to handle the Jocko and it was good practice for us young 'uns on the pole. With old Jenko the C&W man helping out on the points we all knew what we were doing, it was a very satisfying way of getting the work done in half the time.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Rugd1022

[russ p]

Loose shunting at Tees yard continued well into the 90s

I used to like loose shunting at Weybourne up until I packed the place in about 15 years ago

I was the only one who did it but got a few others involved but some others were downright frightened of it

[101]

Funnily enough I had a similar rant to control last night when I was trying to explain why I couldn’t relieve my train at Dovey jn as per the roster (for those who don’t know Dovey jn famously does not have any vehicular access other than by train) am I was asked ‘why would they have you showing as relieving there then?’ My reply being on the lines of ‘because they don’t have a clue sat in the warm office of quite how remote and inaccessible places are down here while they are tucked up at 3am in their warm beds and were having to work extra time to get the train to an accessible place to relieve!’ (i.e Machynlleth)

 

They also don’t quite grasp that the 90 miles between crewe and Machynlleth can’t be driven in a van in 90 minutes!

 

Rant over, as you were.........

 

Looks like Colas recruit their roster clerks/diagrammers from the same place as DB then Jim! (I haven't included controllers as DB to be fair actually have some good ones, some with many years behind them).  I can remember being booked PNB at Patchway on three occasions over several weeks even after I told everyone the first time that there is nothing at Patchway except a couple of bus shelters. Amongst diagram errors one thing that always annoyed me was when booked via a specific route, for instance Box, the diagram would not say via Box but would say via Chippenham or via Bath obviously because they have no railway knowledge and are working from maps. Whilst that may seem petty it shows how traditional railway knowledge is being lost and while I realise that everyone has to start and learn somewhere, the worrying thing is that the managers above them and further up the chain do not have the knowledge to correct them either.

But as I said i am luckily out of it all now, and I feel sorry for those of you left in the freight sector as I can only see things getting worse as the companies race to the bottom, throwing all the hard won conditions away (I'm  sure there are many old drivers spinning in their graves  )

 

sorry another rant over - I've had to retype this twice as I I've said things I shouldn't be saying on a public forum.

[big jim]

 

sorry another rant over - I've had to retype this twice as I I've said things I shouldn't be saying on a public forum.

 

 

same here with my post!

 

i always say they should put office staff out with a driver for a week shadowing a typical weeks diagrams, staying in the same hotels (or quality of hotels) driving the same distances in vans etc to actually see what the job entails away from actually driving trains

 

in all fairness they are generally pretty good and will listen to you if you can think of a way of doing things better but at 3AM sat in a van in a layby in deepest mid wales trying to explain the problem you have been left with does get to you!

 

sorry to go off topic again!!

Edited February 15, 2018 by big jim

[101]

Deleted

Edited February 16, 2018 by 101

[cheesysmith]

As a ex railway man, a ex railway YTS, and a person who grew up next door to tinsley yard, all I can say is the railway has changed from a place where professionals with extensive experience were allowed to get on with the job, and knew how to do it safely, to one were as long as you follow ever word of the rule book, even if it doesn't work, then if anything goes wrong it's someone else's fault.

 

God, I sound like a grumpy old git.

 

Or let's say it changed from a "something's gone wrong, let's fix the problem" to a " something's gone wrong, who's fault is it?".

Edited February 16, 2018 by cheesysmith

[caradoc]

same here with my post!

 

i always say they should put office staff out with a driver for a week shadowing a typical weeks diagrams, staying in the same hotels (or quality of hotels) driving the same distances in vans etc to actually see what the job entails away from actually driving trains

 

in all fairness they are generally pretty good and will listen to you if you can think of a way of doing things better but at 3AM sat in a van in a layby in deepest mid wales trying to explain the problem you have been left with does get to you!

 

sorry to go off topic again!!

 

I agree absolutely that office-based staff should spend time out and about to see what really happens outside, although staffing levels may well make that difficult these days. However I would say that staff outside should also spend a little time in the office, to see what people such as Controllers, Roster Clerks and Trust Clerks have to contend with; Such staff are often responsible for a far greater geographical area than any Driver or Signaller (for example) and therefore cannot always have the same level of detailed knowledge.

 

Regarding lack of knowledge of today's railway staff, I feel that is a little unfair: When I became a Controller in 1984, I thought I knew a fair bit about railway operating, being an enthusiast and having completed BR's Safe Working of Trains courses. On Day 1 in Control I realised I knew absolutely nothing, and only through the patience and assistance of my colleagues did I learn and develop. So when I myself became an experienced member of staff I always tried to remember that, and assisted newer members of staff in turn.

[jjb1970]

Regarding lack of knowledge of today's railway staff, I feel that is a little unfair: When I became a Controller in 1984, I thought I knew a fair bit about railway operating, being an enthusiast and having completed BR's Safe Working of Trains courses. On Day 1 in Control I realised I knew absolutely nothing, and only through the patience and assistance of my colleagues did I learn and develop. So when I myself became an experienced member of staff I always tried to remember that, and assisted newer members of staff in turn.

An important point it is easy to forget, sometimes when I hear old salts whinging about less experienced people entering a job I make the point that not everybody is fortunate enough to emerge from the womb as a perfectly formed whatever the role might be.

[101]

An important point it is easy to forget, sometimes when I hear old salts whinging about less experienced people entering a job I make the point that not everybody is fortunate enough to emerge from the womb as a perfectly formed whatever the role might be.

Yes as I said earlier I acknowledge that

- and I well remember being like a rabbit in the headlights when I started! - but as I said the problem is that there isn't the knowledge and experience further up to guide people any longer.

Over the last 10/15 years or so the railway, or least the parts where I have worked, have lost far too many of the good experienced people.

[Enterprisingwestern]

It's interesting reading all the comments about the downwards spiral of the rail industry, it can be paralelled with my experiences at British Gas after privatisation, there seems to be one common denominator.

 

Mike.

[Reorte]

Loose shunting continued almost on a daily basis at Rugby upside until the week before the remodelling of the yard itself started around 2005/6, with the sheer amount of weekend work outstabled there it was the only way to get things done on time. A lot of the traffic at the time consisted of Coalfish and Sea Urchins which were easy to loose off under the footbridge where there was a slight dip and hump in the track. Our green carded shunt Driver (seniority date May 1956) knew exactly how to handle the Jocko and it was good practice for us young 'uns on the pole. With old Jenko the C&W man helping out on the points we all knew what we were doing, it was a very satisfying way of getting the work done in half the time.

That recently suggests there might be some nice high quality video of it...

[Reorte]

Over the last 10/15 years or so the railway, or least the parts where I have worked, have lost far too many of the good experienced people.

I suspect it's common in most industries. People moving jobs frequently really doesn't help, neither does businesses hating the very idea of having to do any training, expecting fully-formed employees to pop into existence from nowhere.

[The Stationmaster]

An important point it is easy to forget, sometimes when I hear old salts whinging about less experienced people entering a job I make the point that not everybody is fortunate enough to emerge from the womb as a perfectly formed whatever the role might be.

 

The thing was that in the past the industry trained people and allowed them to build experience as they progressed to senior roles - particularly senior operating and engineering roles.   Not too many years ago you wouldn't find any operating manager in a senior role who knew his Rules & regs plus, of course, plenty of other things, because he (and occasionally she) had been required to learn such things in jobs at lower levels in the hierarchy.  Today I get the firm impression that certainly in NR that sort of knowledge and experience base no longer exists.

 

Among other things in my final three jobs on 'the big railway' (as I call it) I was - among various other things at different times - managing train planning offices and all of my staff knew that I could do any one of their jobs be it train planning, timing, or traincrew diagramming and in two of those jobs I was also an operations senior on Call Manager so subject to regular re-examintion in all Rules & Regs.  I could not have walked into any of those jobs and grasped all the relevant detail of them and what my teams were doing without a background of considerable width of experience over the years in various posts and it is that building of experience that some parts of the industry has very definitely  lost.

I suspect it's common in most industries. People moving jobs frequently really doesn't help, neither does businesses hating the very idea of having to do any training, expecting fully-formed employees to pop into existence from nowhere.

 

As a matter of interest BR reckoned the ideal period in a management post for career development purposes was about three years.

[Pandora]

around 1990, a shunter who worked a yard near Scunthorpe claimed his yard was the last one to perform loose shunting, loose shunting  where the trains of wagons were cut and sorted,  the 08 diesel would give  a short push to the wagons , ( the 08 would only move a  couple of feet )  and the cut of  2 or 3 wagons  would freewheel   down the yard with the shunter running and jumping  alongside the cut with a wooden brake stick wedging down the brake lever of the wagon  to control the speed of the shunt.

you can only guess the number of accidents and injuries  to the shunters over the years who worked this method (and their level of fitness),

Edited February 16, 2018 by Pandora

[br2975]

I have a VHS (remember that ?) video recording I made at Tidal Sidings, Cardiff in 1992

.

The footage shows a Class 08 loose or fly-shunting rafts of BDA wagons, with the time honoured 'full throttle, close throttle, and away they go'

.

On numerous occasions the driver slams on the anchors, and the wagons drag the pilot along, wheels locked, as the furthest two or three bogie bolsters roll off into one of the roads.

.

That is the last time I conciously watched such action.

.

Brian R

[waggy]

Late night trains shunting by the river, i remember Windy Town. A line from Chris Rea's song Windy Town. ( Middlesbrough ) and i bet he heard a lot of shunting in his younger days. Then there is his song Steel River about the decline of the town.

[Flying Pig]

around 1990, a shunter who worked a yard near Scunthorpe claimed his yard was the last one to perform loose shunting, loose shunting where the trains of wagons were cut and sorted, the 08 diesel would give a short push to the wagons , ( the 08 would only move a couple of feet ) and the cut of 2 or 3 wagons would freewheel down the yard with the shunter running and jumping alongside the cut with a wooden brake stick wedging down the brake lever of the wagon to control the speed of the shunt.

you can only guess the number of accidents and injuries to the shunters over the years who worked this method (and their level of fitness),

Precisely what was being discussed in this thread before it became a bunch of old chaps waving their brake sticks and quavering about how things were done "in my day". The video I linked earlier shows the hitting up part, for the wagon chasing, see the first couple of minutes of

 

https://youtu.be/N1QY2A2C5pc

Edited February 16, 2018 by Flying Pig

[101]

Precisely what was being discussed in this thread before it became a bunch of old chaps waving their brake sticks and quavering about how things were done "in my day". The video I linked earlier shows the hitting up part, for the wagon chasing, see the first couple of minutes of

 

https://youtu.be/N1QY2A2C5pc

Not quite - the start of that video shows hump shunting, not loose shunting as per the OP.

On the whole loose shunting didn't need wagon chasers - unless the driver was bit over enthusiastic!

Edited February 17, 2018 by 101

[rockershovel]

I suspect it's common in most industries. People moving jobs frequently really doesn't help, neither does businesses hating the very idea of having to do any training, expecting fully-formed employees to pop into existence from nowhere.

Modern employment practices are essentially exploitative and parasitic. Quite recently, the BBC morning programme interviewed an HR woman of some sort from a quite busy modern company. Her point was, essentially, that they foresaw problems with recruitment in the event of any significant curtailment of Free Movement Of People (FMOP). Their whole model was built upon recruiting personnel trained by others, on casual contracts at very low wages, with no training programme of any description, and they had no plans to do otherwise.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Modern employment practices are essentially exploitative and parasitic. Quite recently, the BBC morning programme interviewed an HR woman of some sort from a quite busy modern company. Her point was, essentially, that they foresaw problems with recruitment in the event of any significant curtailment of Free Movement Of People (FMOP). Their whole model was built upon recruiting personnel trained by others, on casual contracts at very low wages, with no training programme of any description, and they had no plans to do otherwise.

 

All of which proves at least one old proverb, "pay peanuts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"

 

Mike.

[russ p]

Late night trains shunting by the river, i remember Windy Town. A line from Chris Rea's song Windy Town. ( Middlesbrough ) and i bet he heard a lot of shunting in his younger days. Then there is his song Steel River about the decline of the town.

Is Tees yard the only British yard to get a mention in a song?

[russ p]

As a ex railway man, a ex railway YTS, and a person who grew up next door to tinsley yard, all I can say is the railway has changed from a place where professionals with extensive experience were allowed to get on with the job, and knew how to do it safely, to one were as long as you follow ever word of the rule book, even if it doesn't work, then if anything goes wrong it's someone else's fault.

God, I sound like a grumpy old git.

Or let's say it changed from a "something's gone wrong, let's fix the problem" to a " something's gone wrong, who's fault is it?".

Did you work at Tinsley? I worked into it regularly from tees 1989-96 ish I knew quite a lot of people from there