Wantage Tramway No.5 "Jane" or 'Shannon' from the Sandy & Potton Tramway (1850).

[AdeMoore]

Still to hot to do anything 32.6 in the shade and 29.9 inside today!

 

 

So trying not to waste a whole weekend I set up under the living room ceiling fan, I bought some plastikard in Bideford from a lovely model shop there. I don’t recall the name but 2nd hand gear was well below the prices of my local shops.

I set to scratch building the missing buffer beams, a first in plastic and harder than using brass I reckon. Anyway close up the results are poor but a bit of filler may improve things.

 

 

Trying to keep cool

 

 

Big news on Jane this turned up while I was away on holiday, just need to source some phosphorus bronze wire for pick ups and some pcb board, though we have loads of old boards from alarm panels at work I can recycle for that.

Back on the brass scratch building soon!

 

 

Cheers for looking in.

[N15class]

It's warmer than that every day here. Nice modelling.

[AdeMoore]

It's warmer than that every day here. Nice modelling.

That’s as maybe Peter but you then get used to it, so it’s just a matter of course, as for us here it takes us by surprise and therefore like snow here in the south west it entitles us to have a moan about it! If it was an every summer occurrence we would all be investing in air conditioning! Do you have air con or are you used to it?

Not sure it’s nice modelling thanks anyway.

Cheers

Ade

[AdeMoore]

Bit of a learning curve going on at the mo. Tried laying on detail layers on the front of the cylinder/steam chest. Tinned each layer first with 145 deg solder as that’s all I had and the first layer was fine but the second layer, even though I tried to be quick mellted the first layer. I had it nearly there but then it wasn’t level so had to go in again and a mess ensued! I kinda knew it would. I’ve now ordered s9me 70 deg and some 188 deg to experiment with!

 

 

So brass fetling was put on hold. Given the hot day it’s easier to set up to do some more on the meat van under the living room fan.

Buffer beams finished and glued on and inside painted out as you can set the doors to be open.

 

 

Thanks for looking in .

Cheers

Ade

[Horsetan]

Bit of a learning curve going on at the mo. Tried laying on detail layers on the front of the cylinder/steam chest. Tinned each layer first with 145 deg solder as that’s all I had and the first layer was fine but the second layer, even though I tried to be quick mellted the first layer. I had it nearly there but then it wasn’t level so had to go in again and a mess ensued! I kinda knew it would. I’ve now ordered s9me 70 deg and some 188 deg to experiment with!

 

52B3BD84-44CB-42CF-8A76-3FC887E7B5A1.jpeg….

 

I think you would benefit from a couple of hairgrips to keep the layers in place whilst you touch the solder in.

[AdeMoore]

I think you would benefit from a couple of hairgrips to keep the layers in place whilst you touch the solder in.

Cheers Horsetan funny enough went shopping for some today none found in this particular shop. They sell everything including great cheap modelling tools! Proper Job may only be local to me?

I’ll look at Daves thread again sure he found some somewhere.

Cheers

Ade

[chris p bacon]

Cheers Horsetan funny enough went shopping for some today none found in this particular shop. They sell everything including great cheap modelling tools! Proper Job may only be local to me?

I’ll look at Daves thread again sure he found some somewhere.

Cheers

Ade

 

 

I got them in Boots, you might find them in Poundland or another cheapo shop.

 

Claires accessories wasn't any good, I could only get my glittered hairbands in there.

[Horsetan]

I got them in Boots, you might find them in Poundland or another cheapo shop....

Superdrug might have them, or possibly even your nearest Sainsbury's / Tesco's in the cosmetics / haircare section.

 

Like these

[AdeMoore]

Haven’t secured any hair grips yet!

Anyway 188 deg and 70 deg solder turned up off eBay JPL Models https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F263270271848

Decent price and free delivery recommend them.

 

 

So with no hair grips a Heath Robinson jig was made.

 

 

The soldering is bottom of the class! But it’s there! All lines up reasonable next for the 70 deg to add the bits and pieces on to the cylinders.

 

 

Cheers for looking in all comments welcome.

Until next time.

Cheers

[Guest Isambarduk]

all comments welcome.

 

Well, as you have invited comment: looking at the photographs close up, I would say that your soldering technique could do with a bit of examination of what you are doing, exactly.  The solder appears not to have wetted (tinned) the job and it has not flowed properly; this is likely to be due to insufficient heat and/or insufficient cleaning and/or insufficient or inappropriate flux.  All this can be sorted but perhaps you would like comment first?

 

David

Edited August 2, 2018 by Isambarduk

[AdeMoore]

Well, as you have invited comment: looking at the photographs close up, I would say that your soldering technique could do with a bit of examination of what you are doing, exactly.  The solder appears not to have wetted (tinned) the job and it has not flowed properly; this is likely to be due to insufficient heat and/or insufficient cleaning and/or insufficient or inappropriate flux.  Al this can be sorted but perhaps you would like comment first?

 

David

Thanks for the comment David, probably all 3, perhaps I need to splash more flux around. Not sure heat is an issue as the middle box joint remelted one try so tried to be quicker in and out. I didn’t tin the two tube joints (well 4). Ie solder on the tube and solder on the inner faces. I just fluxed it really loaded the iron (after minimal solder didn’t secure well) and dropped it in without too much finessing around. The flux is http://www.hobbyholidays.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=PHOSFLUXsml I think to late now to desturb the house and go and look.

Cheers for your observations

[doilum]

As I have said before, in the land of solder cleanliness IS godliness. I may have missed something but in all your "bench clutter" I cannot see a fibreglass brush or pencil. Brass seems to begin oxidation in minutes and a quick revist with the abrasive pencil just before the act of soldering always helps.

[AdeMoore]

As I have said before, in the land of solder cleanliness IS godliness. I may have missed something but in all your "bench clutter" I cannot see a fibreglass brush or pencil. Brass seems to begin oxidation in minutes and a quick revist with the abrasive pencil just before the act of soldering always helps.

Nope haven’t got one of those, so will do.

I just use emery cloth before hand and brush off anything with a soft bristle paint brush before the flux goes on.

Tried more flux this evening and that went well.

Bench Clutter! Everything to hand , it’s an old school desk I work at about 2ft square!

Thanks for the tip.

Cheers

Ade

[doilum]

Nope haven’t got one of those, so will do.

I just use emery cloth before hand and brush off anything with a soft bristle paint brush before the flux goes on.

Tried more flux this evening and that went well.

Bench Clutter! Everything to hand , it’s an old school desk I work at about 2ft square!

Thanks for the tip.

Cheers

Ade

Despite bespoke drawers, my benches end up the same. You will never regret the investment. I would go for a "propelling pencil" type as the priority. Don't forget the spares, a big bag is more expensive but better value and you will use them. There are various stick types. I'm not certain but the colour of the wrapper may indicate the level of abrasiveness. If so, blue is the one to look out for. Someone on here gave me the useful tip of binding the stick in string and then covering it with PVA.

These items will give you a quantum leap forward, like moving from granddads heat in the fire iron to an antex or rsu.

[AdeMoore]

Bit more done, after the tips from David more flux was where it’s at.

So now with 188 deg 145 deg and 70 deg solder things are better.

But doing the steam chest cover In 145 I managed to unsolder a piston tube on one side.

It was in 188 but poorly done as previously noted.

So redone with 188 and much neater. As below shows

 

 

Attached the cylinders on the front now the weight of that made the horn block sit at the top of their travel and that meaning the front end is low.

 

 

So hopefully a bit of weight up back similar to these tweezers will level things out. Or a spring arrangement possibly?

 

 

So on to the slide bars next.

All comments appreciated.

Until next time.

Cheers

Ade

[Jon4470]

Ade

 

Nice progress - I always like it when brass bits start to turn into the recognisable shape of a loco. You’ve chosen an interesting prototype as well - looking forward to seeing more of this.

 

By the way I also agree that fibreglass pencils are good for cleaning metal prior to soldering. The fibres do have a habit of getting stuck in your fingers though! (Tweezers and magnifying glass then become useful........)

 

Jon

[chris p bacon]

. You’ve chosen an interesting prototype as well - looking forward to seeing more of this.

 

 

As Ade is finding out, that has to be understatement of the year!

 

Looking good, keep going as you're getting there. Above the footplate is much easier. ( I think I sent some of the cab parts?)

[sharris]

Well, as you have invited comment: looking at the photographs close up, I would say that your soldering technique could do with a bit of examination of what you are doing, exactly. The solder appears not to have wetted (tinned) the job and it has not flowed properly; this is likely to be due to insufficient heat and/or insufficient cleaning and/or insufficient or inappropriate flux. All this can be sorted but perhaps you would like comment first?

 

David

Does 70 degree solder work on brass? I've only ever used it on white metal and was lead to understand that it doesn't really stick well to brass unless you tin the brass with normal solder first.

Edited August 16, 2018 by sharris

[AdeMoore]

As Ade is finding out, that has to be understatement of the year!

 

Looking good, keep going as you're getting there. Above the footplate is much easier. ( I think I sent some of the cab parts?)

Thanks Dave indeed you did most generous, so got help when I move above the footplate.

Cheers

Ade

[AdeMoore]

Does 70 degree solder work on brass? I've only ever used it on white metal and was lead to understand that it doesn't really stick well to brass unless you tin the brass with normal solder first.

Well I could be reinventing the wheel but I had no problem, lashings of flux and a good join. I had three layers to solder so the piston tubes I did 188 then the steam chest145 finally the steam chest cover 70 degree. Whether it stays put mind could be another matter!

Cheers

Ade

[AdeMoore]

Also of note, to date apart from the wheels, axles and hornblocks the only things not scratch built are the coupling and connecting rods.

I did make some but they were pretty course and loads of work still to go. These were very kindly supplied by Dave (Chris P Bacon) see post #85 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/132029-wantage-tramway-no5-jane-or-shannon-from-the-sandy-potton-tramway-1850/page-4

[Guest Isambarduk]

Does 70 degree solder work on brass? I've only ever used it on white metal and was lead to understand that it doesn't really stick well to brass unless you tin the brass with normal solder first.

 

Unlike gluing, soldering is not about 'sticking' but is about forming a stable alloy with the parent material.  The 70 deg solder forms a more stable alloy with normal solders than it does with brass or nickel silver so, yes, it is better to tin the brass with a normal solder first (which does form a stable alloy with brass and nickel silver), before using the 70 deg solder.    David

[AdeMoore]

Bit more done not worth noting soldered two pieces of 0.25mm brass together for the Slide bar attachment plate (not sure it’s called that but no one said to the contrary when I used the term before) then set about shaping it mini drill disc set to work.

 

 

It’s nearly up to 7mm scale which is worrying! After measuring off the chassis.

Also a couple of new photo came from FB this evening permission to share here thanks to Killian Keane.

 

 

Couple of great photos.

Cheers

[Guest Isambarduk]

Slide bar attachment plate (not sure it’s called that …

 

Motion bracket.

 

Agree re great photos.    David

[AdeMoore]

Motion bracket.

 

Agree re great photos.    David

Ah thanks David of course heard read the term now you say it. Motion bracket that’s it.

 

I’m also thinking making the motion and cylinders removable, lay a bar between the two motion brackets notched into the top of the two frames I think with a forward tipping motion off it will come having dropped the pin out the connecting rods. Is that worth doing chaps?

Cheers

Ade