Common features of Colonel Stephens light railways

[wagonman]

Wildly OT, but I'm intrigued by this use of "signature". It seems to have come from the American commercial world - McDonalds is heavily promoting their "signature burgers", airlines promote their "signature cocktails".

 

I'm curious as to why it is considered a better word than, say, "typical"?

 

Paul

 

 

Good point. I suspect it is being served up from the same American-dominated Mass Media pot that has dished out "Train Station" and various other horrors.

[jjb1970]

The use of "signature" in that way is nothing new though, I remember it back in the 80's in this country.

[Nearholmer]

I’m not at all sure where it comes from, but it isn’t anything like new, and use in the way that I used it is covered in the oxford dictionary, which suggests that it’s carried that meaning in Britain for a good while.

 

Whether or not it’s better than ‘typical’ is surely a matter of personal taste. i quite like it.

 

Perhaps we should speak of the ‘iconic features’ of Light Railways? ;-)

 

PS: it just struck me that ‘signature tune’ is a long-used term that almost certainly didn’t originate with an American burger joint.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Fenman]

I’m not at all sure where it comes from, but it isn’t anything like new, and use in the way that I used it is covered in the oxford dictionary, which suggests that it’s carried that meaning in Britain for a good while.

 

Whether or not it’s better than ‘typical’ is surely a matter of personal taste. i quite like it.

 

Perhaps we should speak of the ‘iconic features’ of Light Railways? ;-)

 

PS: it just struck me that ‘signature tune’ is a long-used term that almost certainly didn’t originate with an American burger joint.

 

Yes, "signature tune" is longstanding (though wasn't it more often called a "theme tune"?). It's the spread of the word "signature" to other uses which I find jarring.

 

I was on a Qatar airways fiight the other day and was offered their "signature mint and lime juice cocktail". It felt wildly pretentious to me, after which I noticed McDonalds using it on billboards.

 

But, as always, when new meanings of words are used that jar, it just means I'm getting old. 

 

Paul 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Fenman

[Nearholmer]

I just looked at the use vs time statistics for ‘signature’ (the source didn’t differentiate between the senses of use, and I think it counted ‘british’ and ‘american’ english together). It has certainly become much more widely used in the past ten years. What surprised me is that it had a significant bump in popularity in the 1930s too, maybe a ‘Neville Chamberlain waving a piece of paper’ affect?

[TonyA]

At risk of staying OT, the use of signature as as distinctive way of writing your name is comparatively modern. It does not appear in Webster's Dictionary of 1827.

 

The closest description there is "a mark upon any matter, particularly upon plants, by which their nature or medicinal use is pointed out." This could arguably be closer to the way Nearholmer used it.

 

Meanwhile, back to Light Railways ...

 

Tony

[Nearholmer]

Ah, but Webster’s is an American dictionary.

 

The word ‘signature’, as opposed to the Latin ‘signatura’, seems to have originated in Scottish legal terminology in the sixteenth century. The transfer from the written signature of an individual, to the more general sense of ‘an identifier’ seems so obvious that I’d wager that it occurred quite early ....... but I don’t think my family would thank me if I spent the whole of the Easter weekend trying to find the earliest recorded use in that sense.

[jetmorgan]

If you can find them there were a series of articles by the Colonel Stephens Society in Model Railway Contsructor, starting I think in December 1986, that is the only one I have at the moment scanned onto the computer.

Colnel Stephens society - Wrong side of the tracks - prototype study MRC dec 86.PDF

[sandwich station]

There are or were books published about The Kent & East Sussex and The East Kent Light Railways by Middleton Press.

 

One is called Branch Line To Tenterden and the other The East Kent Light Railway. Both are well worth buying if they are still available with loads of old photos in them.

[Fenman]

Ah, but Webster’s is an American dictionary.

 

The word ‘signature’, as opposed to the Latin ‘signatura’, seems to have originated in Scottish legal terminology in the sixteenth century. The transfer from the written signature of an individual, to the more general sense of ‘an identifier’ seems so obvious that I’d wager that it occurred quite early ....... but I don’t think my family would thank me if I spent the whole of the Easter weekend trying to find the earliest recorded use in that sense.

 

I bought a house in Scotland (many years ago) and, bizarrely, at the end of the typescript contract, I had to physically write the phrase "adopted as holograph" above my signature, to indicate that this newfangled typescript stuff had the same legal validity as if I had written the contract by hand. Then again, I had a "feu superior" in the contract, too, a feudal system alive and well in living memory. Though, in fairness, I think they finally abolished that a couple of  years back.

 

Sorry for dragging us OT.

 

Paul

[PenrithBeacon]

Perhaps because a signature is very personal though it can be copied unlike a fingerprint.

[LBRJ]

One feature that I do remember reading about was the total absence of Ladies toilets, which was attributed to the fact that the Colonel was a bachelor. The other thing was the prevalence of flies around the Gents toilet during dry weather, though that might be harder to model except in very large scale.

 

Tony

 

I recall reading (in regard to parks, gardens etc) that Ladies toilets were not "needed" because the dresses of Victorian ladies allowed for, erm, direct to grass emission.

[ullypug]

With reference to the original post; Terriers (Dapol) and Manning Wardles (Miverva) would be a good place to start. Ex LSWR or Metropolitan 4 wheel coaches and ex Midland 5 plank wagons seem to be prevalent on more than one line. Antics do commissions of WCPR Private Owners

Low wooden platforms, wooden and corrugated iron buildings and mainly flat bottom rail spiked not chaired track. There were always exceptions!

My particular affliction is the WC&PR but I'm starting to build a PDSWJR themed layout.

As others have said the Col Stephens Society and Museum are excellent sources of information and inspiration.

[Dava]

For a mere $10 [uS keyboard] I can recommend membership of the Col Stephens Society with 4 little magazines a year and access to other goodies.

[jetmorgan]

Just found another article with some info on some of the coaching stock on a couple of Colonel Stephens railways, in particular the K&ESR.

Colonel Stephens Society - A royal pair MRC sept 86.PDF

[Dava]

The latest issue of 'The Colonel' has arrived, not only with colour photos but a colour postcard insert too! Continuing fascination & news on all matters Colonelia. Great value too. Even a photo of yrs trly on p17.

[Talltim]

I would say signature has a different meaning to typical.

The features (or combination thereof) that are a signature of a Colonel Stephens railway are the ones that set it apart from from other similar lines where as the features that are typical may also be typical of other lines

Edited June 6, 2018 by Talltim

[Tom Burnham]

On 27/03/2018 at 22:20, robert17649 said:

well you could argue that Stephens was the only man known who could run basically passenger railways at something near a profit. this without subsidy or government support.

Which almost no-one in the world can or has done.

 

There are also examples of quite serious engineering such as the Calstock viaduct, still in use and only on a small branch line because of Government stupidity and lack of foresight.

Also a number of his railways still live on in the heritage preserved sector, and of course regular services still run on the Devonport and Calstock line.

 

What I believe to be remarkable about Colonel Stephens line is the innovation  eg petrol railcars etc and ability to do quit well with tatty stock and second hand stuff, something that modern English railways cannot do with new stock and slick systems which more often than not result in an expensive and inefficient service.

 I recently traveled from La Rochelle to Rochefort . roughly as a far as from Plymouth to Exeter, no railcards merely evidence of advancing years it cost 12 quid for wife and self and two bikes. return the train was on time the buffet worked and so on.

 

I like the idea of colonel Stephens he put his money where his mouth was and made stuff work, sadly there are very few here now who can do the same.

 

end of rant. For a modeller the ralways rrally do offer the basics of rule no 1 its mine and i'll run what I like!

These days in the UK we tend to think of railways in a passenger context, but most of the Colonel's standard gauge lines were mainly intended for freight, with passengers as something of a sideline. The Selsey tramway was an exception, but otherwise even the Kent & East Sussex had a solid business in coal, roadstone and fertiliser in, and farm produce out.

[DCB]

On 06/06/2018 at 18:17, Talltim said:

I would say signature has a different meaning to typical.

The features (or combination thereof) that are a signature of a Colonel Stephens railway are the ones that set it apart from from other similar lines where as the features that are typical may also be typical of other lines

The signature tune surely alerted the early 20th century audiences to which Band they were listening to. All the Band leaders had their own,  Later or even contemporaneously  with radio the tune alerted listeners to approach of a  particular program, such as the Archers, a program with nothing what ever to do with archery, and with TV to Monty Pythons Flying Circus, a program with nothing what so ever to do with, Monty (Field Marshall  sir Bernard Montgomery,) reptiles, flying or indeed circus's.

 

Col Stephens didn't have a signature, unless it was naming locos (after the wreck of  the )Hesperus.  He did have a talent for buying other peoples cast offs  so any fictitious Col Stephens line could well have had any locomotives sold out of service by main line railways, Terriers and Adams Radials being two large classes decimated circa 1900 and available RTR while the GWR had numerous locos on the sales list in the 20s and 30, some of which found their way to Colliery service.  The HR sold quite a few locos c 1919 so maybe if you fancied scratch building an HR Strath could be explained away on a fictitious Col Stephens byway especially if named Hesperus.   A Dean Goods might be easier.

[Nearholmer]

The Met was also selling-off locos and stock as it electrified c1903-7, and those locos were very good for light, twisty track.

[johnofwessex]

My late father described a trip on the Hundred of Manhood and Selsey Bill railcar set - the fore runner of the HST

[johnofwessex]

Dont forget of course that there were some 'Non Stevens' light railways, the Eastingwold, North Sunderland & the last survivor, the Derwent Valley spring to mind, I dont think he did much 'North of Watford'

 

What was his relationship with th elines though, owner/promoter/manager/consultant?

[Nick Holliday]

12 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

Don't forget of course that there were some 'Non Stevens' light railways, the Easingwold, North Sunderland & the last survivor, the Derwent Valley spring to mind, I don't think he did much 'North of Watford'

 

What was his relationship with the lines though, owner/promoter/manager/consultant?

Depending on which "Watford" you mean, I think the following of his lines were certainly not in the south-east, if not particularly north.

Ashover Light - Derbyshire

Edge Hill - Oxfordshire

F(f)estiniog etc - North Wales

Shropshire and Montgomery

Snailbeach  Shropshire

Weston Point - Cheshire

 

[harry lamb]

Light weight rail. Probably used on all of the Colonels lines. Much of it flat bottom which was also in industrial use. Krupp of Germany has been mentioned somewhere ( I cannot remember where though!) as supplying such rail to UK prior to WW1. However, a very good example of such light rail in use in a model situation was the Weston Clevedon and Portishead Railway in EM by Andrew Ulyott in MRJ 162 and later mentioned in MRJ 229. I have a small number of books that contain good clear photographs of the Colonels standard gauge railways with the lighter rail of both B/H and F/B sections. In 4mm. code 55 F/B rail is an excellent source for lightweight industrial sidings and such. HL. 

[Engineer]

 

Recently found and posted a link featuring the Weston Clevedon & Portishead Railway.  This shows a little of the track at 3:47 onwards:

 

https://www.londonsscreenarchives.org.uk/title/39/