The Guardian: "Millions of trees at risk in secretive Network Rail felling programme"

[hayfield]

Although caused by a tree beyond the NR boundary fence, perhaps these shots from 2010 will serve as a reminder of what an HST looks like after hitting a fallen tree at 90mph.

 

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The driver was lucky (if that's the right word) to escape with just a broken wrist. 

 

 

Now a well balanced report from a decent news provider would include photos like these which clearly justifies maintaining  trackside vegetation.  However this will not support the hidden agenda that is behind these reports.

[jjb1970]

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[whart57]

Now a well balanced report from a decent news provider would include photos like these which clearly justifies maintaining  trackside vegetation.  However this will not support the hidden agenda that is behind these reports.

 

Actually I saw the bit that said "beyond the boundary fence" and wondered how dictatorial some people want the state railway maintainer to be. Clearly the spirit of East Germany lives on in Britain.

[caradoc]

I'm sure all those complaining about Network Rail cutting down trees are going to fill their front and back gardens with trees, to demonstrate that their concern for wildlife truly starts at home. 

[russ p]

I too have picked my wheels up on several occasions over the years due to leaves and I feel that trees should be cleared from the lineside but only after bird have left their nests.

If network rail and Railtrack had kept the lineside in reasonable condition we wouldn't be in this state.

And the amount of vegetation in yards is downright dangerous in a lot of places

[w124bob]

1959? Just how old are you?

142

[APOLLO]

Lots of trees & vegetation cleared at Springs Branch for the new £42million depot - BUT not enough !!

 

Photos taken today here

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133568-wigan-springs-branch-re-born/page-2&do=findComment&comment=3159859

 

Brit15

[jonny777]

I'm sure all those complaining about Network Rail cutting down trees are going to fill their front and back gardens with trees, to demonstrate that their concern for wildlife truly starts at home. 

 

 

 

I don't need to, I already have three oak trees in my front garden - plus two cherries and a pair tree. 

 

At the back there is a yew, a couple of holly trees and the remains of a pussy willow which seems to have died, plus three very large buddleias. 

[Mike Storey]

I too have picked my wheels up on several occasions over the years due to leaves and I feel that trees should be cleared from the lineside but only after bird have left their nests.

If network rail and Railtrack had kept the lineside in reasonable condition we wouldn't be in this state.

And the amount of vegetation in yards is downright dangerous in a lot of places

 

Can only agree. But in all fairness, NR did significantly increase the lineside vegetation budget within perhaps a year of taking over from Railtrack, but the initial application of that budget was often defeated by a combination of contractural change issues, reorganisation and other priorities (driven by other more urgent priorities which RT had also somewhat neglected). NR's "leaked" strategy (which existed in similar form even when I was still there) does clearly state that nesting season must be avoided unless there are compelling safety reasons.

 

The main issue, if one accepts that deciduous trees (and rotten/unstable other trees) are a danger to trains and a very clear source of delays, is whether there is compliance with that strategy. Presumably, Jo Johnson's review will at least focus corporate minds on that matter.

 

Those that do not accept that trees/very large bushes are not really a problem, and that there is no excuse for their removal, need a bit more education. There has to be a balance between ecology and safety/massive delays. I can see the point of a campaign which pursues the target of replacing each tree removed with one planted elsewhere (National Forest or similar) but what happens when the next generation of self-seeding sycamores and all the others, have to be culled again? Is NR to become the major punchbag for the lack of implementation of a coherent governmental, environmental strategy? (I accept there is a strategy, but it seems to require the private or voluntary sector to make much of it happen).

[ess1uk]

There were plenty of people in orange near piles of chipped wood yesterday along the ECML when I went to London and back.

[Dava]

Now a well balanced report from a decent news provider would include photos like these which clearly justifies maintaining  trackside vegetation.  However this will not support the hidden agenda that is behind these reports.

What do you depend on for news, Daily Mail, Fox News, Breitbart, Facebook, do they cover these stories?

[Mike Storey]

Now a well balanced report from a decent news provider would include photos like these which clearly justifies maintaining  trackside vegetation.  However this will not support the hidden agenda that is behind these reports.

 

Get your point, but would a "decent news provider" then also have to provide pictures of destroyed nests, chicks being devoured by predators due to lack of foliage, etc etc, or was it enough balance to simply report on the strategy that does exist (which includes an obligation avoid nesting season) with a picture showing that might not be happening, and the fact that the govt have found an issue they can agree on?

[43110andyb]

In my opinion far too many trees especially away from the required felling areas are removed, creating a 'nuclear wasteland' environment.

Hopefully responsible 'off track' managers will follow the laid down standards and not turn a blind eye to environmental regulations.

[jonny777]

Get your point, but would a "decent news provider" then also have to provide pictures of destroyed nests, chicks being devoured by predators due to lack of foliage, etc etc, or was it enough balance to simply report on the strategy that does exist (which includes an obligation avoid nesting season) with a picture showing that might not be happening, and the fact that the govt have found an issue they can agree on?

 

 

It is not just an obligation to avoid disturbing nesting birds.

 

 This would be an infringement of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and in breach of The European Habitats Directive 1992/Nesting Birds Directive.

 

The maximum penalty for each offence is a £5000 fine and up to six months imprisonment in the Magistrates court, and a £5000 fine and up to two years imprisonment in the Crown Court.

[brianusa]

This kind of thread quickly falls into the us v them description. Obviously safety is a primary concern and concerning the proclivity of todays trains to lose traction under the slightest conditions due to leaf drop; leaves do drop and when they do its is a concern that has to be addressed. However, that does not need to lead to clear cutting but by the same token, photos of trains in tree tunnels may be picturesque but hardly practical and certainly doesn't help passengers views even if the seats do line up with the windows. It was all accomplished quite well in 'the good old days', probably with more man power than power tools.

 

Brian.

[Mike Storey]

In my opinion far too many trees especially away from the required felling areas are removed, creating a 'nuclear wasteland' environment.

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Hopefully responsible 'off track' managers will follow the laid down standards and not turn a blind eye to environmental regulations.

 

 These are not standards based on environmental legislation and are generic. The issues that have led to the current increased activity, surround item 5.5.2 (which in turn had its own, very lengthy guidance note, which seems little changed in the latest "leaked" strategy, but also in vegetation likely to be unstable (which also had its own Guidance Note). The sciences of soil management and risk management collide here with environmental management.

 

"Responsible" managers, will be those who take all factors into account.

[phil-b259]

In my opinion far too many trees especially away from the required felling areas are removed, creating a 'nuclear wasteland' environment.

Only because large trees and bushes tend to prevent the growth of more suitible vegetation

 

Go back to photos taken in 1950s and ask yourself do they show a 'nuclear wasteland' even though there are no trees?

 

OBVIOUSLY in the immediate aftermarth of the tree felling the lineside looks bare - give it 6months to a year and flowers + grass will have taken hold removing the 'nuclear wasteland' look.

 

The key after that is to ensure that you don't leave it for decades before coming back then s giving trees a chance to grow to a sizeable girth again.

[43110andyb]

Only because large trees and bushes tend to prevent the growth of more suitible vegetation

Go back to photos taken in 1950s and ask yourself do they show a 'nuclear wasteland' even though there are no trees?

OBVIOUSLY in the immediate aftermarth of the tree felling the lineside looks bare - give it 6months to a year and flowers + grass will have taken hold removing the 'nuclear wasteland' look.

The key after that is to ensure that you don't leave it for decades before coming back then s giving trees a chance to grow to a sizeable girth again.

In many urban areas the railway sometimes forms some of the only untouched wildlife corridors around! My issue is that there is no need to cut trees that don't need removal especially when wildlife is thriving. Thus removing the carnage of removal and the need for re-growth. Leave nature to do what it does best if possible!

[43110andyb]

These are not standards based on environmental legislation and are generic. The issues that have led to the current increased activity, surround item 5.5.2 (which in turn had its own, very lengthy guidance note, which seems little changed in the latest "leaked" strategy, but also in vegetation likely to be unstable (which also had its own Guidance Note). The sciences of soil management and risk management collide here with environmental management.

 

"Responsible" managers, will be those who take all factors into account.

Hi Mike, I posted these current NR standards to show that there is sometimes no need to remove more than is needed throughout the network -which I believe many times this is not the case!

[Zomboid]

In many urban areas the railway sometimes forms some of the only untouched wildlife corridors around! My issue is that there is no need to cut trees that don't need removal especially when wildlife is thriving. Thus removing the carnage of removal and the need for re-growth. Leave nature to do what it does best if possible!

All this stuff costs money. That's how we got into this situation in the first place. NR aren't going to pay people to cut down trees for the fun of it with all the other things they have to spend a limited supply of money on.

[43110andyb]

All this stuff costs money. That's how we got into this situation in the first place. NR aren't going to pay people to cut down trees for the fun of it with all the other things they have to spend a limited supply of money on.

Agreed contract staff brought in for planned projects do cost money. But most off track departments local policy employing current full time staff can make a big difference working on the majority of the infrastructure.

[E3109]

This kind of thread quickly falls into the us v them description. Obviously safety is a primary concern and concerning the proclivity of todays trains to lose traction under the slightest conditions due to leaf drop; leaves do drop and when they do its is a concern that has to be addressed. However, that does not need to lead to clear cutting but by the same token, photos of trains in tree tunnels may be picturesque but hardly practical and certainly doesn't help passengers views even if the seats do line up with the windows. It was all accomplished quite well in 'the good old days', probably with more man power than power tools.Brian.

Things generally ARE an "us v them" situation though.

Don't get me wrong Brian safety is of course foremost, and I've probably slid from here to Birmingham in total due to low adhesion (class 142s are particularly 'fun' in Autumn).

 

Just my two pennorth,

1. Don't even think about cutting trees when wildlife is thriving, our native creatures need all the help they can get and particularly birds while nesting. (I accept that where there is imminent danger to the railway such as a semi-toppled tree this should be disregarded)

2. Flails are brutal, when I see the results of such kit I shudder to think about the fate of the wildlife in the area where flails have been used.

3. Obviously steam locos kept excessive growth in check when they were the main form of traction. Why did nobody foresee these issues when steam was abandoned? I suspect this is because "they" neither knew nor cared.

[caradoc]

I don't need to, I already have three oak trees in my front garden - plus two cherries and a pair tree. 

 

At the back there is a yew, a couple of holly trees and the remains of a pussy willow which seems to have died, plus three very large buddleias. 

 

That's great ! I have trees too, in both my back and front gardens, which I regularly cut back (no-one tell the Guardian, please !) to stop them taking over the garden, blocking light from the house and the lawns, and obstructing the pavement. The point I am making is that no householder would allow their entire garden to be filled with trees, and the railway cannot allow the same to occur on its property, because of the effects on safety and performance mentioned in previous posts. It may be nice if a line becomes a wildlife corridor, but that is not the purpose of the railway. Where the railway can benefit wildlife is by leaving alone rail-locked parcels of land which few humans ever visit.

[jonny777]

I understand your point, and I cut branches off my trees, chop them up and burn them on the fire in the winter (don't tell the carbon-neutral junkies) and they keep me warm. 

 

However, my dislike of the almost 'slash and burn' policy is that while my garden needs some sunlight to function as a recreational area, the railway tracks do not. It is as though there was a committee meeting to decide how far from the line to cut back, maybe 15 feet either side would have been acceptable; but someone couldn't take the decision so decided that a "clear the lot" policy was the easiest way to avoid any comeback on themselves. 

 

And yes, certain wild flowers and grasses will flourish for the first couple of years; but soon brambles and bracken will take over and young tree seeds will be excreted by birds, or buried by mammals, and the whole process will begin again. 

 

And all because the railways changed from clasp brakes to discs. 

[rodent279]

For me, those pictures of the HST close the deal. That driver is lucky to be alive. Railway safety must come first. Had that been a Pacer, there could very easily have been several deaths.