The Guardian: "Millions of trees at risk in secretive Network Rail felling programme"

[Joseph_Pestell]

In the interests of "balance", I suppose that one ought to point out that Aspartame is not the only common drink product with unpleasant connotations. Alcohol is effectively yeast urine. Does not stop a lot of people from drinking (and I have just finished a very nice can of Bombardier which seems nicer than when it was brewed in Bedford).

[jjb1970]

Somebody will mention cochineal next.....

[chris p bacon]

In the interests of "balance", I suppose that one ought to point out that Aspartame is not the only common drink product with unpleasant connotations. Alcohol is effectively yeast urine. Does not stop a lot of people from drinking (and I have just finished a very nice can of Bombardier which seems nicer than when it was brewed in Bedford).

 

 

All the sewage flows downhill to Bedford with any excess heading to Biggleswade.

[Ron Ron Ron]

.... Alcohol is effectively yeast urine.....

 

 

Ah!

So is that the origin of the phrase, "getting p***ed"?

 

 

.

[Derekl]

The pic the Guardian used showed a train with Mk1 slam door stock. Not on Network Rail then

 

The Guardian carries a "correction" this morning - the photograph is on the Kent and East Sussex, which it accepts has no involvement in Network Rail's tree-felling operation.

[jcm@gwr]

Perhaps the next headline should be-

 

"Guardian suffers from slow-news day!"

[hayfield]

The Guardian carries a "correction" this morning - the photograph is on the Kent and East Sussex, which it accepts has no involvement in Network Rail's tree-felling operation.

 

 

 Have I noticed or am I imagining it that the standard of reporting in the Guardian has declined over the years, from what I perceived a basic neutrality biased accurate style, to a rather sensationalized style

 

Reporting from all news outlets including the BBC seems to be very lazy and again goes for the cheap gains at the expense of the facts.

 

One example a statement that police numbers have declined, does that mean there are less bobbies on the beat ? perhaps not.. On the face of it could be said is correct, but look into it and you may well find that the numbers of the police officers providing support facilities may have declined but have been replaced by civilians. Same number on the beat, less in the offices

[rodent279]

In the interests of "balance", I suppose that one ought to point out that Aspartame is not the only common drink product with unpleasant connotations. Alcohol is effectively yeast urine. Does not stop a lot of people from drinking (and I have just finished a very nice can of Bombardier which seems nicer than when it was brewed in Bedford).

So where is Bombardier brewed now? Not that I'm a fan of it, but used to live in Bedford, and could smell when they were doing a new if the wind was in the right direction.

(This post is not in any way at all off-topic.....

[Reorte]

 Have I noticed or am I imagining it that the standard of reporting in the Guardian has declined over the years, from what I perceived a basic neutrality biased accurate style, to a rather sensationalized style

It's not as funny though as the local news story posted in the TPE / Class 68 thread which had a picture of the 68 and Mk 5s with DVT and labelled it as a "futuristic new bullet train."

[whart57]

 Have I noticed or am I imagining it that the standard of reporting in the Guardian has declined over the years, from what I perceived a basic neutrality biased accurate style, to a rather sensationalized style

 

Reporting from all news outlets including the BBC seems to be very lazy and again goes for the cheap gains at the expense of the facts.

 

One example a statement that police numbers have declined, does that mean there are less bobbies on the beat ? perhaps not.. On the face of it could be said is correct, but look into it and you may well find that the numbers of the police officers providing support facilities may have declined but have been replaced by civilians. Same number on the beat, less in the offices

 

Away from the headlines the Guardian and Observer still provide a better quality of analysis than most papers, the "Long Read" is a particularly good innovation though it is a long read if the topic in question doesn't interest you very much. With this trees issue though the Guardian was reporting what various action groups are saying and there was of course that controversy about trees being cut down in Sheffield to provide some context. Network Rail did get the opportunity to put their side of the case and overall the article in question was balanced. The headline was another matter of course though Network Rail's refusal to share its data on places where tree felling is recommended did provide the justification for the description "secretive".

 

As for the picture, well that is clearly a picture editor signing on to the one of the agency sites and selecting something that looked nice. The website now has a pic of engineers trimming trees somewhere South of the Thames (third rail very much in evidence). A mistake, now corrected, but not as bad as a mag celebrating the centenary of the RAF with a pic of a plane with USAF markings.

[ejstubbs]

Aspartame is, in essence, excrement from the e-coli bug which in itself is basically excrement.

 

Where do you get that information from?

 

Aspartame is synthesised from aspartic acid and phenylalanine.  There's no bacterial agent involved in the production of aspartic acid.  Phenylaline is an essential amino acid, ie one that cannot be synthesized by the human body and thus must be supplied from the diet.  The adult RDA for phenylalinine is 33mg/kg body weight per day.  Good sources of phenylalanine are eggs, chicken, liver, beef, milk, and soybeans.  It's true that commercial production of phenylalinine is based on its production as a metabolic byproduct of E coli (nowadays, genetically modified E coli) but to call that "excrement" ('Waste matter discharged from the bowels' - OED) is a reckless misuse of language.

 

E coli itself is a bacterium, or 'bug', as you noted.  It is commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded organisms, but then so is a lot of other stuff, mostly bodily waste products and indigestible components of the diet (like fibre - which is good for you, right?)  E coli is not a bodily waste product: it's an organism that lives inside you feeding on your bodily waste products.  Given that it lives in the human gut, it makes more sense to say that you (and all of us) are full of it (ie E coli) then it does to say that E coli "is" excrement.

 

As Joseph_Pestell pointed out, metabolic byproducts of micro-organisms are present in other human foodstuffs.  Yeast is a single-celled member of the fungus kingdom (anyone want to volunteer to be King of the Fungi?) which produces alcohol and carbon dioxide as metabolic byproducts, which we use in the production of intoxicating beverages, and for biogenic aeration of beverages (such as ginger beer) and baked goods (eg bread).  Much cheese production uses bacteria at the start of the cheese-making process, to convert sugars in milk in to lactic acid to curdle the milk.  The bacteria (and the enzymes they produce) remain in the cheese and play a large role in the eventual flavor of aged cheeses (starter cultures for Emmenthal also include Propionibacter shermani, which produces carbon dioxide gas bubbles during aging, giving the cheese its holes).  And we'll all have seen the adverts for yoghurts that contain "good bacteria" - all yoghurt is made using bacterial cultures to produce lactic acid, in a similar way to cheese starter cultures.  Bacteria are essential for the creation of any fermented foods: sourdough bread, saurkraut, natto...the list is a long one.  And most if not all are recommended by some more-or-less genuine authority or another as being "good for you".

 

To try to imply that aspartame is 'bad' simply because a bacterial metabolic byproduct is used in its production is ridiculous, emotive scaremongering.

 

And, as jonny777 pointed out, there is no evidence that aspartame at current levels of consumption as a non-nutritive sweetener is harmful.  Which is why it is approved for that use by more than ninety national food standards agencies across the world.

 

I don't consume much if any aspartame myself, but I thoroughly dislike pseudo-science and nonsensical conspiracy theories which seem to be designed to create irrational fear in credulous people.

[hayfield]

Away from the headlines the Guardian and Observer still provide a better quality of analysis than most papers, the "Long Read" is a particularly good innovation though it is a long read if the topic in question doesn't interest you very much. With this trees issue though the Guardian was reporting what various action groups are saying and there was of course that controversy about trees being cut down in Sheffield to provide some context. Network Rail did get the opportunity to put their side of the case and overall the article in question was balanced. The headline was another matter of course though Network Rail's refusal to share its data on places where tree felling is recommended did provide the justification for the description "secretive".

 

As for the picture, well that is clearly a picture editor signing on to the one of the agency sites and selecting something that looked nice. The website now has a pic of engineers trimming trees somewhere South of the Thames (third rail very much in evidence). A mistake, now corrected, but not as bad as a mag celebrating the centenary of the RAF with a pic of a plane with USAF markings.

 

 

As I said sadly its my view that the Guardian in many aspects has been both dumbed down and changed from its once neutral stance. Still I have a choice whether to support their business model

[Mike Storey]

 Have I noticed or am I imagining it that the standard of reporting in the Guardian has declined over the years, from what I perceived a basic neutrality biased accurate style, to a rather sensationalized style

 

Reporting from all news outlets including the BBC seems to be very lazy and again goes for the cheap gains at the expense of the facts.

 

One example a statement that police numbers have declined, does that mean there are less bobbies on the beat ? perhaps not.. On the face of it could be said is correct, but look into it and you may well find that the numbers of the police officers providing support facilities may have declined but have been replaced by civilians. Same number on the beat, less in the offices

 

But there are more ways of fact checking now than ever. For example, your allegation that their statement regarding fewer bobbies on the beat might be wrong. I confirmed the Guardian's version in 30 secs, by Google search which revealed a Commons Research Library analysis, from last year, showing 14% fewer front line officers since 2010, despite an increase from 91% to 93% in the average proportion of front line officers in each English and Welsh force.

 

I think the rest of your post can only be judged personally. And personally, I do not think it is true. I think it is the subject matter that has become sensational in recent years, not particularly the reporting of it. The one newspaper that most people could rely upon for sober and factual reporting, used to be The Times, but that ceased to be true soon after Murdoch took it over. I would not trust anything it says with a barge pole these days, especially the Sunday Times, and I have a very personal reason for saying that.

[Mike Storey]

As I said sadly its my view that the Guardian in many aspects has been both dumbed down and changed from its once neutral stance. Still I have a choice whether to support their business model

 

We would need examples to support your view, if it is to be taken as anything other than a fact-free opinion. I well recall buying the Guardian in the 1970's just because it gave a more left wing view of matters than almost all the others. I do not see any change since then in its reporting or its Editorial, and in fact, it has given a platform to more right wing/orthodox commentators, in its comments section, since the Referendum.

 

One major change is that it has fewer spiilleng mishtakes, which is a pity really.

[jjb1970]

I like tis one, not only is this a new Titanic, it's also a floating Chernobyl, how cool is that?!!

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/floating-nuclear-power-plant-russia-floating-chernobyl-nuclear-titanic-akademik-lomonosov-launch-a8327316.html

[hayfield]

But there are more ways of fact checking now than ever. For example, your allegation that their statement regarding fewer bobbies on the beat might be wrong. I confirmed the Guardian's version in 30 secs, by Google search which revealed a Commons Research Library analysis, from last year, showing 14% fewer front line officers since 2010, despite an increase from 91% to 93% in the average proportion of front line officers in each English and Welsh force.

 

I think the rest of your post can only be judged personally. And personally, I do not think it is true. I think it is the subject matter that has become sensational in recent years, not particularly the reporting of it. The one newspaper that most people could rely upon for sober and factual reporting, used to be The Times, but that ceased to be true soon after Murdoch took it over. I would not trust anything it says with a barge pole these days, especially the Sunday Times, and I have a very personal reason for saying that.

 

 

My mention about reduction in police officers was not about anything in the Guardian, but from general reporting from TV, radio and papers. Usually where there is little evidence to prove a particular point or any additional information given. As it happens the police authorities are quite happy to keep quite as they like many other public funded institutions enjoy others campaigning for additional funds on their behalf.

 

I probably am slightly better informed on policing than the average person on the street from personal connections, though not an expert. Like all things I look objectively at stories when they are reported. Back to trees on embankments or under power lines, this is a man made area which has to be compatible with what its next to/under. Plus there is a push to plant millions of trees both in existing and newly created forests by recent government initiatives 

 

Find the facts and report them accurately, but then perhaps in doing so its not such an emotive story, or fails to back the views of certain pressure groups.  

[PenrithBeacon]

Have I noticed or am I imagining it that the standard of reporting in the Guardian has declined over the years, from what I perceived a basic neutrality biased accurate style, to a rather sensationalized style

 

Reporting from all news outlets including the BBC seems to be very lazy and again goes for the cheap gains at the expense of the facts.

 

One example a statement that police numbers have declined, does that mean there are less bobbies on the beat ? perhaps not.. On the face of it could be said is correct, but look into it and you may well find that the numbers of the police officers providing support facilities may have declined but have been replaced by civilians. Same number on the beat, less in the offices

I'm a life-long Guardian reader and I don't think the standard of the reporting has fallen, but its presentation certainly has, as this report, I think, illustrates. Having said that, the Guardian Newspaper Group is operating at a loss so there is a need to sell newspapers in greater quantities, hence the more sensationalist coverage which is a regret.

 

I have no objection to NR cutting down on foliage, my objection is that they only cut down the foliage, they don't kill it. This means that in a few year's time they will have to come back and do it all again at further tax-payer funded expense

[Derekl]

My mention about reduction in police officers was not about anything in the Guardian, but from general reporting from TV, radio and papers. Usually where there is little evidence to prove a particular point or any additional information given. As it happens the police authorities are quite happy to keep quite as they like many other public funded institutions enjoy others campaigning for additional funds on their behalf.

 

I probably am slightly better informed on policing than the average person on the street from personal connections, though not an expert. Like all things I look objectively at stories when they are reported. Back to trees on embankments or under power lines, this is a man made area which has to be compatible with what its next to/under. Plus there is a push to plant millions of trees both in existing and newly created forests by recent government initiatives 

 

Find the facts and report them accurately, but then perhaps in doing so its not such an emotive story, or fails to back the views of certain pressure groups.  

 

I have to say that your earlier post certainly looked like criticism of the Guardian, although looking back I see you mentioned the BBC as well. My impression is that the Guardian does get the full facts and report them accurately - there really is nothing wrong with this story other than a (perhaps) overenthusiastic headline. It might have helped had NR bothered to comment - there is clearly a defence to the arguments made by the groups being reported, but you can't expect the Guardian to report a response that hasn't been made.

 

As to policing issues, the paper (and for that matter the BBC) are reporting sound and official sources, as noted by Mike Storey above - it cannot be seriously argued that they are acting as sounding boards for police "authorities" (which no longer exist, in passing - replaced by Police and Crime Commissioners).

[E3109]

Where do you get that information from?

 

Aspartame is synthesised from aspartic acid and phenylalanine.  There's no bacterial agent involved in the production of aspartic acid.  Phenylaline is an essential amino acid, ie one that cannot be synthesized by the human body and thus must be supplied from the diet.  The adult RDA for phenylalinine is 33mg/kg body weight per day.  Good sources of phenylalanine are eggs, chicken, liver, beef, milk, and soybeans.  It's true that commercial production of phenylalinine is based on its production as a metabolic byproduct of E coli (nowadays, genetically modified E coli) but to call that "excrement" ('Waste matter discharged from the bowels' - OED) is a reckless misuse of language.

 

E coli itself is a bacterium, or 'bug', as you noted.  It is commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded organisms, but then so is a lot of other stuff, mostly bodily waste products and indigestible components of the diet (like fibre - which is good for you, right?)  E coli is not a bodily waste product: it's an organism that lives inside you feeding on your bodily waste products.  Given that it lives in the human gut, it makes more sense to say that you (and all of us) are full of it (ie E coli) then it does to say that E coli "is" excrement.

 

As Joseph_Pestell pointed out, metabolic byproducts of micro-organisms are present in other human foodstuffs.  Yeast is a single-celled member of the fungus kingdom (anyone want to volunteer to be King of the Fungi?) which produces alcohol and carbon dioxide as metabolic byproducts, which we use in the production of intoxicating beverages, and for biogenic aeration of beverages (such as ginger beer) and baked goods (eg bread).  Much cheese production uses bacteria at the start of the cheese-making process, to convert sugars in milk in to lactic acid to curdle the milk.  The bacteria (and the enzymes they produce) remain in the cheese and play a large role in the eventual flavor of aged cheeses (starter cultures for Emmenthal also include Propionibacter shermani, which produces carbon dioxide gas bubbles during aging, giving the cheese its holes).  And we'll all have seen the adverts for yoghurts that contain "good bacteria" - all yoghurt is made using bacterial cultures to produce lactic acid, in a similar way to cheese starter cultures.  Bacteria are essential for the creation of any fermented foods: sourdough bread, saurkraut, natto...the list is a long one.  And most if not all are recommended by some more-or-less genuine authority or another as being "good for you".

 

To try to imply that aspartame is 'bad' simply because a bacterial metabolic byproduct is used in its production is ridiculous, emotive scaremongering.

 

And, as jonny777 pointed out, there is no evidence that aspartame at current levels of consumption as a non-nutritive sweetener is harmful.  Which is why it is approved for that use by more than ninety national food standards agencies across the world.

 

I don't consume much if any aspartame myself, but I thoroughly dislike pseudo-science and nonsensical conspiracy theories which seem to be designed to create irrational fear in credulous people.

Good to see that you rarely consume any Aspartame.

In the meantime, I'm off to consume some Vimto cordial.

Not the compromised crap they sell here, but imported Saudi stuff that is true to the original Nichols recipe, made under licence, and pours like syrup as well as staining your teeth.

 

There's no conspiracy like the conspiracy we're living in and for the moment I'll leave it at that, seeing as I caused the thread to drift in the first instance.

[The Stationmaster]

Long overdue and about time too.   Let's get back to proper linsesides without piles of spent ballast and back to the flora and fauna which once lived there - none of this buddleia rubbish or enough trees to keep my wood burner going for a couple of centuries.

 

NR has gradually been tackling the problem of lineside jungles for a couple of years and in my view it counts of one of their more positive actions.

[Joseph_Pestell]

So where is Bombardier brewed now? Not that I'm a fan of it, but used to live in Bedford, and could smell when they were doing a new if the wind was in the right direction.

(This post is not in any way at all off-topic.....

 

Burton probably but possibly Wolverhampton. Charles Wells has become just a pub owning company and Marston's has bought up the brewing activities, including Young's (which thus moves again).

 

I have not had a pint of Young's recently - very expensive in their local outlet, The Mitre. But I must try it to see if they have managed to keep its quite distinctive character.

[hayfield]

The CEO was on either the radio or TV over the weekend talking about our drinking/eating habits and how they are changing, His view is less growth/decline in gastro pubs, smaller drinking establishments becoming more popular with continued growth in craft beer

[jjb1970]

No wonder they lost the Thameslink train order if they were too busy worrying aboot where to brew beer.

[Derekl]

The Guardian this morning carries a number of letter on this topic (the real topic, not aspartame) including a cogent letter from NR head of media mounting the predictable defence. Otherwise, there are others who support the activity, both to be able to see better from the window, and to reduce delays.

[hayfield]

The Guardian this morning carries a number of letter on this topic (the real topic, not aspartame) including a cogent letter from NR head of media mounting the predictable defence. Otherwise, there are others who support the activity, both to be able to see better from the window, and to reduce delays.

 

 

I think all agree that with the railways so full, especially during rush hours avoiding delays is important

 

Views from the train seems a bit superfluous at face value, but having commuted to London for several years, having a clear view not only allows you to know where you are but does help to pass time.  Having travelled to Italy and back a couple of times viewing the countryside as it passes by is most enjoyable, especially when traveling through the foot of the Alps and rural Italy