The Guardian: "Millions of trees at risk in secretive Network Rail felling programme"

[MarkC]

This reminds me of a Mini-scandal about livestock carriers operating from Australia to the Middle East and other areas. Apparently its another dark secret that nobody in Australia knew anything about. Apart from those in Fremantle who knew when the port stank of ***to that a livestock carrier was alongside. I remember being told all about how horrific the conditions were by the locals 30 years ago and they were right. Livestock carriers have been a disgrace for many decades and its hardly a secret (least of all to government departments, ports, stevedores, people living near the ports etc but because the media just took notice it was all a secret.

 

ted675 has already described conditions at Gulf ports; I can concur with his comments, having been at the next berth (and, sadly, downwind of them) to a couple of these livestock carriers in the port of Damman, and the way that these animals are treated is utterly shameful. I've seen beasts trying to make a bolt for freedom, only to be chased around the jetty by stevedores driving fork lift trucks, and have seen terrified sheep actually being impaled on the forks, as well as others which have gone into the water, only to be chased even there by blokes driving motor boats. Horrendous.

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by MarkC

[jjb1970]

ted675 has already described conditions at Gulf ports; I can concur with his comments, having been at the next berth (and, sadly, downwind of them) to a couple of these livestock carriers in the port of Damman, and the way that these animals are treated is utterly shameful. I've seen beasts trying to make a bolt for freedom, only to be chased around the jetty by stevedores driving fork lift trucks, and have seen terrified sheep actually being impaled on the forks, as well as others which have gone into the water, only to be chased even there by blokes driving motor boats. Horrendous.

 

 

Well said, it is a shameful trade. I remember making a passing comment in a bar in Fremantle many years ago to the effect of "****, what a stink" and the locals offering chapter and verse on conditions found onboard livestock carriers. I thought they were over egging the pudding but they weren't.

['CHARD]

my environmentally, very well qualified Swedish assistant

 

More on this, please. 

['CHARD]

'The company said the average tree had between 10 and 50,000 leaves, any or all of which could fall on the line.'

 

I think Sandra Laville needs to read and heed 'Eats, Shoots and Leaves' by Lynne Truss 

 

[rodent279]

More on this, please.

You're only interested in her qualifications aren't you!?

 

(Assuming it was a she.....)

Edited May 6, 2018 by rodent279

[Mike Storey]

More on this, please. 

 

What happens in Stratford stays in Stratford........

 

But she knew more about our own environmental regs and planning law than any of us did. She also spoke better English......

[rodent279]

She also spoke better English......

That's not difficult!

[hayfield]

Anyone have an idea how many trees are felled each year to supply the paper for the Guardian news papers ?

[Mike Storey]

Anyone have an idea how many trees are felled each year to supply the paper for the Guardian news papers ?

 

None for me, as I get mine electronically, as do some 650,000 others according to the latest members' newletter. How do you get yours?

[chris p bacon]

 How do you get yours?

 

 

Rolled around a cardboard tube in the loo.

[rodent279]

I thought a lot of newspaper came from China clay slurry? Or is a by-product at least?

[Mike Storey]

I thought a lot of newspaper came from China clay slurry? Or is a by-product at least?

That may be true these days, perhaps, but from my over-familiar exposure to the industry, through serving Bowaters at Sittingbourne in the 1980's, their chaps told me the slurry (which we railed in from Burngallow and also from a couple of places in France) was for creating the gloss on paper used for magazines etc. The paper itself was produced from pine wood imported by ship, from Finland mainly, into Ridham docks.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Mike Storey

[rodent279]

That may be true these days, perhaps, but from my over-familiar exposure to the industry, through serving Bowaters at Sittingbourne in the 1980's, their chaps told me the slurry (which we railed in from Burngallow and also from a couple of places in France) was for creating the gloss on paper used for magazines etc. The paper itself was produced from pine wood imported by ship, from Finland mainly, into Ridham docks.

Ahhh, that would explain why they can't recycle old glossy magazines (so I've been told)

[Classsix T]

A little unfair there. A lot of us did either know or suspect what was going on. Most others, I think, never gave it much thought and simply accepted the Agriculture lobby's assurances that all was well. What's changed is the recent whistle-blower footage that was sufficiently graphic and unpleasant, and seen by enough people, that the whole issue has become impossible to ignore for a much larger number of people than was previously the case. I don't think the livestock industry is going to get away scot-free this time, simply because the electoral maths has been fundamentally changed.

Quote for context.

Whether animal welfare is your "thing" or not, the wider ramifications of these two stories give me the willies.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/15/i-released-2000-minks-fur-farm-convicted-terrorist#ampshare=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/15/i-released-2000-minks-fur-farm-convicted-terrorist

 

http://www.opus.org.au/articles/agriculture-laws-australia/

 

C6T.

[Chris M]

The Severn Valley Railway were secretly reducing trees by the side of the line on Friday; they were using the traditional method of setting fire to them with a passing steam loco. Caused a few delays though.

[Fat Controller]

Ahhh, that would explain why they can't recycle old glossy magazines (so I've been told)

That was in the early days of post-consumer recycling; I don't think glossy paper presents any problems these days. On the subject of finishes on papers, other substances can be, and are, used. The most important is calcium carbonate slurry; the mill at Workington gets this delivered from Aberdeen Docks by rail. Another is a form of resin-based compound; Tennecco Malros at Avonmouth used to sell this when I worked there in the 1970s.

[PatB]

Quote for context.

Whether animal welfare is your "thing" or not, the wider ramifications of these two stories give me the willies.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/15/i-released-2000-minks-fur-farm-convicted-terrorist#ampshare=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/15/i-released-2000-minks-fur-farm-convicted-terrorist

 

http://www.opus.org.au/articles/agriculture-laws-australia/

 

C6T.

I dunno about terrorism, but, IMHO, releasing 2000 mink into the wild is a staggeringly stupid thing to do, and likely to result in the local extinction of an awful lot of species.

[whart57]

I dunno about terrorism, but, IMHO, releasing 2000 mink into the wild is a staggeringly stupid thing to do, and likely to result in the local extinction of an awful lot of species.

 

Quite. The "activist" deserved his year in chokey for sheer stupidity and allowing ideology to blind commonsense.

[lmsforever]

Evidently the witness was from Greenpeace par for the course for this so called newspaper.

[Mike Storey]

Evidently the witness was from Greenpeace par for the course for this so called newspaper.

 

From which organisation should the "witness" have been, in your opinion? And if it had been reported in a different newspaper, which should that have been, in your opinion?

 

Most of the objections/"witnesses" I have come across in similar situations, have been from English Nature, RSPB, National Trust, Woodlands Trust or, mainly, a Residents Association . Should they all also be put up against the wall and shot too, unless your favourite, right-thinking "newspaper" publishes their views? Several of these incidents ended up as bash-the-railways articles in the Sunday Times or Telegraph. But none had any merit, ecologically, environmentally or in abrogation of residents' rights. So that's alright then.

[jjb1970]

I dunno about terrorism, but, IMHO, releasing 2000 mink into the wild is a staggeringly stupid thing to do, and likely to result in the local extinction of an awful lot of species.

As much as I dislike the treatment of animals in much of our modern agricultural sector I have to agree that releasing thousands of mink into the wild was an act of gross irresponsibility and likely to result in chaos. I think it is easy to see the natural world as some sort of idyl but in fact it can be a brutal world. I remember making a rather glib comment to somebody getting carried away at how lovely leopard seals are to be careful as they weren't exactly vegetarian.....

[lmsforever]

Checked my source sorry got it wrong (senior moment) it was the Green Party they have not covered themselves in glory in the past but the fact is NR have said this report is rubbish .It would seem to be a usual headline grabbing bit of false news.I think it was in the north-west that NR wanted to chop some trees down and the residents were upset ,as noise levels would go up agree with that .As to were witness come from I am not worried as long as they have a valid argument.

[whart57]

I think it is good that people seek to protect trees, after all they take forty years to grow to maturity and can be chopped down in a morning. It's better that our default position is that you don't cut a tree down without good reason, better anyway than the alternative of landowners can do what the hell they like on their land. Network Rail have a case, why shouldn't it be out there in the court of public opinion

[Reorte]

I think it is good that people seek to protect trees, after all they take forty years to grow to maturity and can be chopped down in a morning. It's better that our default position is that you don't cut a tree down without good reason, better anyway than the alternative of landowners can do what the hell they like on their land. Network Rail have a case, why shouldn't it be out there in the court of public opinion

Sure, and we could do with a lot more trees, not fewer, but they're only growing where they are on the railways due to a long period of neglected maintenance.

[Classsix T]

Quite. The "activist" deserved his year in chokey for sheer stupidity and allowing ideology to blind commonsense.

That wasn't my point, labelling someone a terrorist for something that patently isn't terrorism, was.

 

French agents blowing up a boat in a New Zealand harbour is apparently not so frowned upon. I despair.

 

C6T.